2023 Model 70 win ...in .375 h&h..upgrades?

[charlieB12345]

How did you polish it?

 

[TucsonFX4]

In 1910, W.W Greener wrote (in The Gun and its Development): In no country are better sportsmen to be found than in the United States of America, nor does any country possess keener buyers or better men of business, yet is so much of the worthless of the (mass production) gun-factories offered for sale. The Boers are a race of sportsmen, but it is no use to offer them rubbish at any price, and the author can hardly believe that the astute American will sacrifice everything to cheapness.

I don't mean to be rude, but the idea of buying a new rifle and then 'upgrading' it by fiddling with it and possibly replacing parts, strikes me as bizarre. Nor does it say much for the quality of product that Winchester is selling.

Apparently, there are so many after-market add-ons to a Harley Davidson motorcycle that you can build yourself a new engine without a single part from the factory. In which case (if you are inclined to do so)... why are you buying that motorcycle - or rifle - in the first place?

As I say, I have no wish to be unpleasant, but if you are spending your money on something that needs work on it to operate as you want it to, perhaps you have bought the wrong product to begin with. No European would buy a new rifle with the intent of throwing half of it away and rebuilding it.

Perhaps it’s more about tinkering, customizing for personal preference, wanting to be unique, etc; than the firearms manufacturers making junk or NEEDING the work. Sure, some of the guns are low quality. Some people can only afford that or don’t have the personal desire to want more.

I personally am not a fan of a one size fits all approach to hunting, shooting, or just about anything else. I very much appreciate that I have options of low end guns and high end guns and everything in between. Same thing with scopes. Same thing with cartridges. Options are good.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

The Winchester model 70 does not fall into the junk category. There are a lot of guns that fall there trust me, but this isn’t one.
In America hunting is for every man, including the poor man who wants to take his kid hunting but can only scrape up enough money for a Savage.

 

[Puddle]

How did you polish it?

Not me. I'm just the loose nut behind the trigger.

The gunsmith (also a big game hunter) with my dummy rounds in hand, diagnosed and performed the out-patient surgery.

 

[charlieB12345]

Perhaps it’s more about tinkering, customizing for personal preference, wanting to be unique, etc; than the firearms manufacturers making junk or NEEDING the work. Sure, some of the guns are low quality. Some people can only afford that or don’t have the personal desire to want more.

I personally am not a fan of a one size fits all approach to hunting, shooting, or just about anything else. I very much appreciate that I have options of low end guns and high end guns and everything in between. Same thing with scopes. Same thing with cartridges. Options are good.

Well said ...when someone asks me how many guns I own my response is always the same....Not Enough...from cheep to exotic

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Since your rifle is already outfitted with iron sights, why not switch to quick detach rings? Looks like it may have Warne rings on it now. Upgrade to their QD rings. I have them on both my 30-06 and 404J. They hold zero every time. I just bought a set of 30mm ones to replace these 1" rings (to fit a new scope) on 404J Mauser. Got a great deal on line for $70 (closeout sale). You can find them on ebay for $85 to $100. I would suggest low rings, especially if your scope is 30mm. Warne low rings are almost the same height as Weaver medium rings. I mounted my rings with levers on the right side. They do not interfere with loading and I want everything sticking out on the gun (turret, bolt, safety, ring levers) on that side so nothing gets snagged in clothing when the rifle is slung on my shoulder.

 

[charlieB12345]

Since your rifle is already outfitted with iron sights, why not switch to quick detach rings? Looks like it may have Warne rings on it now. Upgrade to their QD rings. I have them on both my 30-06 and 404J. They hold zero every time. I just bought a set of 30mm ones to replace these 1" rings (to fit a new scope) on 404J Mauser. Got a great deal on line for $70 (closeout sale). You can find them on ebay for $85 to $100. I would suggest low rings, especially if your scope is 30mm. Warne low rings are almost the same height as Weaver medium rings. I mounted my rings with levers on the right side. They do not interfere with loading and I want everything sticking out on the gun (turret, bolt, safety, ring levers) on that side so nothing gets snagged in clothing when the rifle is slung on my shoulder.
View attachment 584746

I have tallly medium rings and the bolt just fits but yes qd would be a good choice too

 

[YancyW]

Pillars and bed the action would be something I do without question. I also add new action screws.

Guard Screws - Winchester Model 70 - Blued Steel - N-70B, Odds & Ends | New England Custom Gun Service, Ltd.

I also install a better bolt knob, but that is personal preference. I have larger hands, and I make sure I have a knob I can run the bolt and never hit the scope with my hand. It looks goofy depending on the scope, but I don't care.

 

[Cam300]

Wow! This is great....can I ask how you came up with all this
!

I’ve wondered that myself… when Mark speaks about rifles, I listen!

 

[Cam300]

I’ve wondered that myself… when Mark speaks about rifles, I listen!

I should add - I followed his advice and did most of that work to my 375 Model 70 (pillar/glass bed, new spring, etc.). It’s one of the most accurate rifles I own now…

 

[Ontario Hunter]

A sorta related question: is it really necessary to pillar if the gun is bedded fore and aft?

 

[Tex .416]

I also install a better bolt knob, but that is personal preference. I have larger hands, and I make sure I have a knob I can run the bolt and never hit the scope with my hand. It looks goofy depending on the scope, but I don't care.

Which bolt knob do you like that does not hit the scope on these M70's?

 

[akrifleman]

Great rifles!

Modern M70 are in theory safer than Pre-64's due to better design overpressure gas venting.
Now the bad...

1. Install pillars (pillar bed) for the action screws
2. Devcon/glass bed the action
3. Swap out action screws for metric head (won't find Imperial sizes in Africa!) action screws. Pack at least two allen wrenches in different bags/cases when going to Africa! You may loose one.

Steps 1-3 will ensure your rifle will hold its zero no matter how much your wood stock dances to weather changes! Also, the allen screws allow one to remove the barreled action from stock and easily replace it for maintenance, cleaning and oiling, and if desired, to pack into a shorter hard travel rifle case.

4. Swap out magazine spring for a M98 Mauser surplus spring. These do break! I've carried extra to Africa for AH members and provided same to AH members stateside.
5. Swap out extractor for Pre-64 M70 extractor. If not available have a gunsmith fit a M98, P14/17 extractor. War surplus parts were designed to be soldier-proof! Again, I've carried extra to Africa for AH members.
6. Finally, there have been reported cases on AH of striker springs breaking. Rare but has happened...
I haven't swapped out the striker spring on my M70 Classic CRF rifles, yet... I may look into Wolf springs since that is their primary business.

Make up some dummy rounds and practice loading, dry firing, and working that bolt fast and hard like a buffalo is charging you, and reloading in a hurry!

Below are photos of my homemade dummy/inert rounds for 458 Win.
Notice that I used round nosed bullets for the first batch?
Then, I turned the bullets around for a very flat base to be fed from magazine into the chamber.
If your rifle will feed backwards bullet cartridges, it will feed most any hunting rounds you come up with!

To make dummys like these;

1. Full length resize
2. Drill holes in base for positive identification that these are NOT live rounds!
3. Remove brass shaving from inside case
4. Fill primer pocket with hot glue from a $10 hot glue gun or install pencil eraser/hard foam
5. Finally, if excessive compulsive like, me, squirt hot glue into case via drilled holes. Add enough glue to weigh what missing powder and brass would weigh. I have also inserted a handful or BBs instead of glue. Your choice... This step is not necessary but for my reloading from my belt training, I want to be as realistic as possible!

View attachment 584714View attachment 584715

How does one keep the bottom door from popping open? I've had it happen twice.

 

[Doug3006]

In 1910, W.W Greener wrote (in The Gun and its Development): In no country are better sportsmen to be found than in the United States of America, nor does any country possess keener buyers or better men of business, yet is so much of the worthless of the (mass production) gun-factories offered for sale. The Boers are a race of sportsmen, but it is no use to offer them rubbish at any price, and the author can hardly believe that the astute American will sacrifice everything to cheapness.

I don't mean to be rude, but the idea of buying a new rifle and then 'upgrading' it by fiddling with it and possibly replacing parts, strikes me as bizarre. Nor does it say much for the quality of product that Winchester is selling.

Apparently, there are so many after-market add-ons to a Harley Davidson motorcycle that you can build yourself a new engine without a single part from the factory. In which case (if you are inclined to do so)... why are you buying that motorcycle - or rifle - in the first place?

As I say, I have no wish to be unpleasant, but if you are spending your money on something that needs work on it to operate as you want it to, perhaps you have bought the wrong product to begin with. No European would buy a new rifle with the intent of throwing half of it away and rebuilding it.

We Americans are inveterate tinkerers. We build muscle cars. We “upgrade” rifles and shotguns. (Consider the existence of release triggers on a clays shotgun! Shivers.) In my case I can’t afford to go on safari every year, but I can buy and noodle with my equipment. For example, I’ve “upgraded“ most of my factory rifles with nicer wood. None of them needed it.

I think our friend @Mark A Ouellette provides a list of most all of the refinements a Model 70 might need. I believe most of them to be, strictly speaking, purely optional. So long as the rifle feeds, fires, ejects and feeds…..something I encourage every owner to check thoroughly before taking a firearm afield….there’s honestly nothing that needs to be done to the OP’s new rifle.

I’ve owned many M70s over the years and have never had one break. Not one component. Not once. Replacing perfectly good parts on a new rifle to ward off potential failures in the field seems a bit excessive. Who says the replacement parts aren’t inferior and more prone to break than the originals?

But feel free to do as I do ….not as I say….and tinker away!

 

[Ontario Hunter]

How does one keep the bottom door from popping open? I've had it happen twice.

Check to make sure the latch catch is fully deployed when floorplate is closed. Often the floor plate or catch need to be tuned so the catch fully extends when floorplate closes. Or you may need to add some tension to the latch spring.

 

[ActionBob]

I would back off the trigger screw, in fact I woukd turn it out all the way and probably just lose it

My M70's that I've dine this on are 10 years old but I'd bet they still set the triggers heavy. If you back out that screw (which probably has loc tight on it) you will get to about 3 pounds and possibly a bit lower. You will be able to shoot the rifle more accurately.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

How does one keep the bottom door from popping open? I've had it happen twice.

First, try what Action Bob advised. Please let us all know if it did or did not resolve your problem.

I encountered that with an almost 450 Rigby in Vektor action rifle. First time I loaded the magazine if dumped all those rounds on the first shot!

I resolved the problem by replacing the magazine release spring with a AR-15 ejector spring. No more problems.

So, perhaps a stronger magazine bottom plate catch (release) spring, or the amount of engagement (bite) of the magazine catch. Before you change your spring, I recommend examining your problem in this order:

1. With the magazine full, is the floor plate fully closed and flush with the magazine well/body?

2. What is the amount of engagement of the floor plate catch?

3. If #1&2 look good, check the force of the catch spring.

Diagrams of this:

A. Pre war Pre-64 M70 diagram. Notice the floor plate is flush to the magazine body/well. The floor plate catch has a spring behind it, and the catch had good purchase on the floor plate.

B. Photo of M70 Classic floor plate not fully closed.

C. Photo of M70 Classic floor plate catch resting on catch. This is to show how much engagement/purchase the catch should have.

D. Photo of floor plate flush against magazine body/well and catch having proper purchase on floor plate.

E. If all else fails find a professional gunsmith. My advise is worth as much as you paid for it

 

[akrifleman]

First, try what Action Bob advised. Please let us all know if it did or did not resolve your problem.

I encountered that with an almost 450 Rigby in Vektor action rifle. First time I loaded the magazine if dumped all those rounds on the first shot!

I resolved the problem by replacing the magazine release spring with a AR-15 ejector spring. No more problems.

So, perhaps a stronger magazine bottom plate catch (release) spring, or the amount of engagement (bite) of the magazine catch. Before you change your spring, I recommend examining your problem in this order:

1. With the magazine full, is the floor plate fully closed and flush with the magazine well/body?

2. What is the amount of engagement of the floor plate catch?

3. If #1&2 look good, check the force of the catch spring.

Diagrams of this:

A. Pre war Pre-64 M70 diagram. Notice the floor plate is flush to the magazine body/well. The floor plate catch has a spring behind it, and the catch had good purchase on the floor plate.

View attachment 584784

B. Photo of M70 Classic floor plate not fully closed.
View attachment 584781

C. Photo of M70 Classic floor plate catch resting on catch. This is to show how much engagement/purchase the catch should have.
View attachment 584782

D. Photo of floor plate flush against magazine body/well and catch having proper purchase on floor plate.
View attachment 584783

E. If all else fails find a professional gunsmith. My advise is worth as much as you paid for it

Looks and feels like there is plenty of engagement. I noticed the spring under the button isn't all that strong, and the door plate has a good bit of wiggle (now that I'm screwing around with it)

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Looks and feels like there is plenty of engagement. I noticed the spring under the button isn't all that strong, and the door plate has a good bit of wiggle (now that I'm screwing around with it)View attachment 584785

Take off the trigger guard and see if you can remove the floor plate catch and spring. I think there is a retaining screw visible when the guard is removed. As I wrote earlier, I used a AR-15 spring in a 450 Rigby. That rifle has a lot more recoil than any of my 375, 416, or 458 Win or Lott rifles. Problem was solved.

AR-15 parts are everywhere in the USA and easy to find. Probably half of the guys in your local gun club have a few in their parts bin...

 

[Wyatt Smith]

A sorta related question: is it really necessary to pillar if the gun is bedded fore and aft?

Its not necessary, but I like the metal to metal contact with no wood to compress. Also when you remove and reinstall the barreled action it goes back to zero perfectly.