SOUTH AFRICA: Kuche Safaris

[375Fox]

For example.

Having passed on several fine gemsbuck on the second day of the hunt, I decided on day three that I really wanted one. The property where I saw the gemsbuck was no longer available to me. Not sure why,but it doesn't matter. I hunted gemsbuck on other properties but did not see another trophy male.

I'm sure this would have been a major issue to some people but I just rolled with it. While looking for another gemsbuck,I took a wonderful trophy waterbuck.

It pays to be flexible. A friend just returned from Zimbabwe,he paid a lot of money and did not get an opportunity at sable or eland. He took this in stride. Some people would still be seething.

My friend was also hunting buffalo,he didn't see one until the last afternoon of a 10 day hunt.

Because he had no opportunity at eland or sable,he was able to take two cape buffalo bulls out of a group of 5 dagga boys when he had only planned on taking one.

It pays to be willing to adapt to circumstances and not be always thin skinned,looking for a grievance when our expectations are not met.

Sorry you didn't get a kudu with your bow. I sincerely hope you get over it.

Being flexible as new opportunities come up is different than being flexible because attention to detail isn’t there when trying to balance a high volume of hunters with available properties. If the price was right I guess you got what you paid for, but you are trying to defend a just OK hunt as great because it was your first safari. Everyone thinks their first safari is great because it often exceeds the service shown in North America. Comparing a concession area in Zimbabwe isn’t a comparison to a ranch in Limpopo either. A concession area you are primarily paying for the experience. A ranch you are primarily paying for the animals. Whether a hunter realizes it or not can be debated. There are not nearly the variables on a ranch as in a concession area. No free range eland is a guarantee. The right ranch it’s 99% certain. If the outfitter lets you hunt it.

 

[bjh2oson]

For example.

Having passed on several fine gemsbuck on the second day of the hunt, I decided on day three that I really wanted one. The property where I saw the gemsbuck was no longer available to me. Not sure why,but it doesn't matter. I hunted gemsbuck on other properties but did not see another trophy male.

I'm sure this would have been a major issue to some people but I just rolled with it. While looking for another gemsbuck,I took a wonderful trophy waterbuck.

It pays to be flexible. A friend just returned from Zimbabwe,he paid a lot of money and did not get an opportunity at sable or eland. He took this in stride. Some people would still be seething.

My friend was also hunting buffalo,he didn't see one until the last afternoon of a 10 day hunt.

Because he had no opportunity at eland or sable,he was able to take two cape buffalo bulls out of a group of 5 dagga boys when he had only planned on taking one.

It pays to be willing to adapt to circumstances and not be always thin skinned,looking for a grievance when our expectations are not met.

Sorry you didn't get a kudu with your bow. I sincerely hope you get over it.

I get being flexible and have no problem with it, I really didnt know that i was going to need to do that.

I am over it. Its definitely not what i was hoping for but there will be another time.

As far being a delicate flower, that doesn't describe me either. I wouldn't exactly describe hunting on a high fence in SA as being a difficult hunt that earns you some sort of badge. I just expect a certain level of service when I am paying for a hunt like this. I even reached out to Koos after the hunt to politely give my thoughts and received no follow up. Koos was dismissive of my concerns to my face in camp. You know its bad when the ph's there are saying the quality and level of service has gone down

 

[Ruraldoc]

Being flexible as new opportunities come up is different than being flexible because attention to detail isn’t there when trying to balance a high volume of hunters with available properties. If the price was right I guess you got what you paid for, but you are trying to defend a just OK hunt as great because it was your first safari. Everyone thinks their first safari is great because it often exceeds the service shown in North America. Comparing a concession area in Zimbabwe isn’t a comparison to a ranch in Limpopo either. A concession area you are primarily paying for the experience. A ranch you are primarily paying for the animals. Whether a hunter realizes it or not can be debated. There are not nearly the variables on a ranch as in a concession area. No free range eland is a guarantee. The right ranch it’s 99% certain. If the outfitter lets you hunt it.

You may think I’m defending my hunt because it was my first time in Africa.

But I had a great time and the fact that you are dismissive of my experience and my opinion says more about you than me.

When I kill another cape buffalo in South Africa, I’ll try to remember it isn’t up to your standards.

Feel free to hunt wherever you like, but take solace in the fact that unlike you, I won’t ridicule your experience.

 

[Ruraldoc]

I get being flexible and have no problem with it, I really didnt know that i was going to need to do that.

I am over it. Its definitely not what i was hoping for but there will be another time.

As far being a delicate flower, that doesn't describe me either. I wouldn't exactly describe hunting on a high fence in SA as being a difficult hunt that earns you some sort of badge. I just expect a certain level of service when I am paying for a hunt like this. I even reached out to Koos after the hunt to politely give my thoughts and received no follow up. Koos was dismissive of my concerns to my face in camp. You know its bad when the ph's there are saying the quality and level of service has gone down

I was there hunting when you posted your negative report. I can’t help but notice you had never posted here before and everything you’ve posted has been to criticize one outfitter.

While you were busy complaining here, I was hunting at Kuche with a dozen people who had wonderful hunts.

Key Board Ninja.

 

[SFRanger7GP]

I have read through this and the other similar threads with thoughtful amusement as well as disappointment. I struggled with adding to this thread. Disclaimer: We hunted with Kuche Safaris primarily because JD gave us a hunt with a rifle we purchased. I won't go into details as our hunting report is posted on AH. We had a good time, no regrets.

From what we have personally seen and experienced (not via google) about Kuche Safaris was good. Is it 5 stars? Absolutely not. He runs a basic camp that serves as an affordable "gateway drug" to get people to hunt Africa. Most hunters in camp thought Africa was beyond their reach but took a chance after being given a hunt via a rifle purchase or getting a great deal during an auction at one of the various conservation groups and clubs such as DU. I will repeat this: they got a great deal during an auction at one of the various conservation groups and clubs such as DU.

I look, listen and ask a lot of questions. I have also discussed our experiences and observations with other Outfitters and PH's that have worked with Koos over the years. Many disapprove of his high-volume hunting. However, they all respect his work within the community, the high number of hunts he donates and his ability to get people into Africa. His staff adores him because they were provided for during the difficult pandemic time.

We had a peak of 22 people in camp while we were there. This had every spot in the dining hall occupied. Most were first time hunters that had acquired their hunt via an auction or gun purchase from JD. This was our first time in a camp with so many other people. We loved listening to the stories of the other hunters, most of which were on their first safari. The majority were also planning to return but wanted a new and different experience. Yet there were a couple that would have complained about the difficulty in finding change if I gave them a $100 bill. There was one group of "experienced" hunters that "needed" certain trophies for their SCI/DSC/NFL/FIFA/NAACP/etc. super executive diamond platinum slams. They were very demanding and complained about everything. It affected no one because we all ignored them.

We spent the past few days traveling around the Cauca Valley with friends here in Colombia. One of my friends is fascinated with our stories of hunting. He has never hunted. He is very educated, lived in the US and still travels there often. I discussed this thread (and other similar ones) with him over cocktails and a beautiful sunset. One of his comments was words to the effect of "with hunters being misunderstood and hated by so many that don't understand or even want to understand, why would you fight amongst yourselves?" We were having this discussion in a lovely hotel on a mountain overlooking the Cauca Valley. Spectacular scenery. I could overhear a group of (obviously) US tourists complaining about everything. Needless to say, we were receiving a different level of attention from the staff than what my rude countrymen were receiving.

Where am I going with this long rant? Happiness is a personal choice. Oftentimes the common denominator for unhappiness can be found in the mirror. Otherwise, get mad and get over it. Go find the experience you are looking for. Wherever one hunts, be safe, have a great time and enjoy the moment. It is very disappointing to see others nitpicking the joy of others. We should all be supportive of one another.

The view from our balcony as I write this ramble.

Fire away! I hear one of our local cantinas calling me with my favorite song.

Remember, happiness is a personal choice! And as always...........
Safe hunting

 

[bjh2oson]

There is nothing wrong with me posting a review. I did it to be helpful as it seemed several people would not have any discourse about their hunts. I don’t think that makes me a keyboard ninja but fire away. You should probably find any new member and criticize their first post.

 

[R.M.C.]

There is nothing wrong with me posting a review. I did it to be helpful as it seemed several people would not have any discourse about their hunts. I don’t think that makes me a keyboard ninja but fire away. You should probably find any new member and criticize their first post.

Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts, i don't consider you a keyboard ninja lol

 

[Deepfork]

There is nothing wrong with me posting a review. I did it to be helpful as it seemed several people would not have any discourse about their hunts. I don’t think that makes me a keyboard ninja but fire away. You should probably find any new member and criticize their first post.

A good portion of your criticism had to do with the bow hunting. I am a serious bow hunter, as are the other three I hunted at Kuche with. But we all decided we were not going to spend any time sitting in blinds. We simply set out each day with both rifle and bow in the truck. When my PH thought there was a good opportunity for a archery stalk he told me to grab the bow. I ended up getting 2 of 9 animals with the bow. The two successful archery stalks are at the top of my best experiences/memories from the trip.

 

[Scott CWO]

I just got back from Kuche in August. This was a DU auction.

I unfortunately did not have a great experience.

The good:
Ph's were great... knowledgeable, fun, good guys.
Access to many ranches with wide variety of game
main hangout/dinner spot was a nice building
The evening meal was pretty good, wild game with some basic sides. good dessert as well.

The bad:
Lack of communication, this runs across most aspects of the outfit
- To start our group of four traded several emails with Kuche and responded timely to any requests they had, but our emails were not always replied to, so things were missed or not known.
- Upon arrival, after traveling 24 hours, we were dropped off at our cabin and had no hot water. This would not have been an issue if we had known who to contact. The owner was not at the ranch until mid week and the ph's stay off site. The whole week we were never given a main point of contact. They need a manager to be this person and they just dont have it. They rely on the ph's to do everything.
- cabins are small and functional, nothing special, bathrooms suck. I would never bring my wife or kids here. There is little/nothing for them to do but sit around all day or ride around in the truck if you are hunting that way. I did not bring my family and it was never my intention just fyi.
- Breakfast and lunch was pathetic. Coffee was gross every morning. No variety as every morning was eggs and some sort of sausage. Lunch was the worst- most days bread sandwiches were the main item... yes bread sandwich.. 3 pieces of bread 1 slice of cheese 1 slice of ham. came with some off brand chips/snack items. 1 day was a chicken paste patty (liquid chicken) and 1 day was a meat pie (the only decent thing all week).
- Camp is very close to cleaning/skinning area and constantly smells like death. I read another review about this and they are not lying.

- Getting your hunting spot. This was a very frustrating aspect as it had to do with the actual hunting. I can deal with the other bs things that make this place a budget outfit but this one was the worst for me. Every day all the ph's get together and discuss or lobby where they will hunt the next day. For some of the guys i went with this was great. They were with ph's who owned their own land and hunted on it, therefore it was set where they were going. My guide did not own his own land therefore he had to lobby for places to hunt. More senior people get diff spots, hunter spending more money better spots , they like you more etc.

I was bow hunting and i would strongly recommend against bow hunting with these guys. Their blinds are trash/ cheap and vary greatly from location to location. I wish they had been up front about this as i would have switched to rifle before the last 2 days.

I had the four animals from my package and was adding 3, with kudu being the main animal i was targeting. I ended up shooting 2 animals from the package (wildebeest and impala) and 1 add on (Gemsbuck) Day 1. I hunted at the property attached to the main camp.
Day 2 also hunted at the main ranch. did not shoot anything
Day 3- this is where it gets crappy. We went to a property my ph had never been to. 20,000+ acre ranch. PH did not have good directions so we went the wrong way at first and then when we got there we had no idea where the blind was. We found a blind and hunted at it... not exactly what i was hoping for and not my guides fault. He should have been given specific instructions and was not. We ended up in a blind that had windows at chest level, so i stood a good amount of the day. While there, in the middle of the day a warthog got into a trap and scared away everything in the area... not sure why that was set but we let it out and continued to hunt. We did not end seeing/shooting any of the remaining animals on my list and come to find out there are no kudu in that area.. whole day wasted due to poor communication.

Day 4 - Hunted at a place that no one should ever go to. A poorly managed ranch where we sat in an abandoned party pavilion overlooking a lake. We saw 2 immature kudu and few impala and warthog.
This did not feel like hunting but on top of this we saw very little.

Day 5- Hunted a solid ranch but saw no animals on my list. When i asked to shoot a couple animals that came in (add-ons not on my list- additional impala and warthog) it was not allowed as that ranch's animal quota had been met.

2 of 5 days ended up being wasted. I dont fault anyone for not seeing certain animals but i dont feel i was put in a place to succeed. I was the only hunter in a camp of 20+ hunters to not even see a mature kudu. Somehow every fat middle aged guy who cant shoot worth a damn got a kudu but i didnt see one? I brought up my concerns to the owner after day 3, when he first arrived and he was mostly dismissive. He was more concerned about different hunters in camp. He also wasnt there my last morning either so i couldn't bring up the overall hunt with him after my last hunt. I get catering to guys who have more animals on their list but i would have gladly added more animals if i had the chance but i didnt even get to shoot the animals i paid for.

Overall it was fun to see animals ive never hunted before but the lack of success due to miscommunication and politics within the outfit definitely made it not a great hunt. I have been on some guided hunts before and the food and accommodations were by far the worst ive had at Kuche.

What it comes down to is that this is a low-rent hunt. You are just a number to them. I should have done some research so part of this is on me. Point being 90% of people who hunt here are cheap asses and dont care about where they stay, what they eat, and roll the dice with where they hunt. I should have spent more money and bought from someone who cares about their hunters. Seems like a lot of people shy away from writing reviews. If anyone has a question Im an open book. For what its worth i sent an email about my experience to the owner and he did not respond.

Sorry you had a tough hunt. Some things definitely went wrong on your hunt. However, you traveled all the way to Africa for just five days of bow hunting? That’s way too short, especially for bow hunting.

 

[bjh2oson]

A good portion of your criticism had to do with the bow hunting. I am a serious bow hunter, as are the other three I hunted at Kuche with. But we all decided we were not going to spend any time sitting in blinds. We simply set out each day with both rifle and bow in the truck. When my PH thought there was a good opportunity for a archery stalk he told me to grab the bow. I ended up getting 2 of 9 animals with the bow. The two successful archery stalks are at the top of my best experiences/memories from the trip.

I wish i had done this. I told them i wanted to stalk as much as possible. Part of this would be on me but I was open starting day 3 to move to the rifle so i wish they had made more of a suggestion, now i know.

 

[bjh2oson]

Sorry you had a tough hunt. Some things definitely went wrong on your hunt. However, you traveled all the way to Africa for just five days of bow hunting? That’s way too short, especially for bow hunting.

Unfortunately thats all our group of 5 could swing. Ill go back and have a better plan then

 

[Doubleplay]

Your statement above that Kucke is "merged" with the game farming industry to sustain their model is frankly BS. The animals on the game farms, hunting ranches or whatever you chose to call them which Kuche safaries hunts are managed to different degrees depending on the property and land owner. These are managed properties, high fence operations, I get that. But these are wild animals and self sustaining herds. I understand that many members here are not interested in what Kuche is offering. Thats fair. But everyone deserves to be able to decide for themselves based on facts, not pre concieved notions and individule bias.

I don't have a skin in the game as I never saw their operation.
But I can assure you %100 that the animals you were hunting were not self sustaining herds.
No herd can sustain themselves in a HF property when they were hunted by 100's of people like in Kuche Safaris case.
Even in properties where the herds are self sustaining they occasionally buy and release animals to bring in new blood and prevent in breeding.

 

[Deepfork]

I don't have a skin in the game as I never saw their operation.
But I can assure you %100 that the animals you were hunting were not self sustaining herds.
No herd can sustain themselves in a HF property when they were hunted by 100's of people like in Kuche Safaris case.
Even in properties where the herds are self sustaining they occasionally buy and release animals to bring in new blood and prevent in breeding.

Yep I have mentioned that in previous posts. The do bring in males from different bloodlines on the properties they manage. They have ear tags and are off limits.

 

[Cam300]

Do you have to check every animal for an ear tag before you decide to make a stalk?

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

You are all missing something very important here, and that is the economics and sustainability angle. South Africa has a huge game breeding industry, it is a business, and it’s ultimate only return is in selling animals. The very best ones go towards the top end trophies and breeding stock, and the vast majority are for regular hunters. All Koos is doing with Kuche is satisfying a need and making business for himself. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the model, and realise that if there is no absorption of the average animals that are born there won’t be the top end one’s either. Take the sable for example, without the success of this model you wouldn’t be able to find a sable hunt under $15k or so.

 

[375Fox]

You are all missing something very important here, and that is the economics and sustainability angle. South Africa has a huge game breeding industry, it is a business, and it’s ultimate only return is in selling animals. The very best ones go towards the top end trophies and breeding stock, and the vast majority are for regular hunters. All Koos is doing with Kuche is satisfying a need and making business for himself. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the model, and realise that if there is no absorption of the average animals that are born there won’t be the top end one’s either. Take the sable for example, without the success of this model you wouldn’t be able to find a sable hunt under $15k or so.

Nothing wrong with this model when done honestly but there are a lot of half truths told about this both by outfitters and hunters. You can look at these Kuche safari threads as an example it started as 100% self sustaining to occasional supplementation for genetics to ear tags are off limits. No one wants to admit their buffalo likely has a chip implanted in it because it was born on a farm or the area their sable was hunted held significantly more bulls than cows or their 12 ft croc was stocked in the year of their hunt and didn’t wander into that small pond behind a fence from a river. This model is marketed as wild hunting when it’s starting to follow a path towards domestication.

 

[Daisy]

Do you have to check every animal for an ear tag before you decide to make a stalk?

I never saw an ear tag on probably 1000 animals I saw total.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

You are all missing something very important here, and that is the economics and sustainability angle. South Africa has a huge game breeding industry, it is a business, and it’s ultimate only return is in selling animals. The very best ones go towards the top end trophies and breeding stock, and the vast majority are for regular hunters. All Koos is doing with Kuche is satisfying a need and making business for himself. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the model, and realise that if there is no absorption of the average animals that are born there won’t be the top end one’s either. Take the sable for example, without the success of this model you wouldn’t be able to find a sable hunt under $15k or so.

The land I hunt in the East Cape is not very suitable for raising anything but game animals. Some sheep production and a bit of cattle but most areas I'm hunting are too brushy for domestic livestock. Raising game produces more meat and jobs for the local economies. People who are fed and working are less likely to listen to crackpot revolutionaries.

 

[Daisy]

Nothing wrong with this model when done honestly but there are a lot of half truths told about this both by outfitters and hunters. You can look at these Kuche safari threads as an example it started as 100% self sustaining to occasional supplementation for genetics to ear tags are off limits. No one wants to admit their buffalo likely has a chip implanted in it because it was born on a farm or the area their sable was hunted held significantly more bulls than cows or their 12 ft croc was stocked in the year of their hunt and didn’t wander into that small pond behind a fence from a river. This model is marketed as wild hunting when it’s starting to follow a path towards domestication.

I agree with your sentiment 375. I’ve never hunted a high fence here in US.

The property I hunted had a 30,000 acre singular parcel. Most of the animals in there were self sustaining. I hunted with the owner most of the time, and we discussed this at length.

He did have two separate areas, one 2000 acres, one 5000 acres. He use these for getting new animals up to self sustaining levels. These were not hunted at all. I’m sure he would introduce the animals at times into the larger parcel for hunting.

This guy had one of the largest private rhinoceros herds in all of Africa. They’ve had them for over 30 years. His cape buffalo population was also self-sustaining over the last 12 years.

Some of the properties Kuche Sends People to are small with lots of animals always added. This is not what I was looking for. However, for people without the resources and being introduced to Africa, I don’t think it is the worst thing in the world. You can take this hunt for less than $10,000 total. It would be hard to be able to do that anywhere else out in a large conservation area.

Know that I feel much like you on most of the issues.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I never saw an ear tag on probably 1000 animals I saw total.

Who cares about ear tags? My first safari the PH lined me up to hunt springbuck on a high school chum's large property. He has quite a large herd and some very nice rams. I shot a fine one after a couple hours cat and mouse stalk. Then we had the rest of the day to kill. The property owner asked if I might be interested in hunting a gemsbuck bull that had escaped into a sheep section. This guy got out five years earlier and for whatever reason simply was not interested in getting back with the herd. He probably was also not interested in breeding. So may as well get rid of him. My PH had been trying but to no avail. Several clients had tried and failed. That old bull was cagey. "Pat, he has a tag in his ear. Is that going to bother you?" No, not really. If he's hard to get, sounds like my kind of hunt. That's what matters. We chased that bull round and round in the thick stuff with lookouts on the hills and still no one ever saw him. Finally, we gave up and went to the farm for lunch. Afterwards, as we were just on the highway leaving PH told me about a pair of cows that had also escaped onto another section. A client shot one two months earlier. I suggested if the other one is still there we may as well go give it a shot. We're already there with the rest of the day to kill. That animal is only wasting range where it is (and range was a precious commodity during a seven year drought!). We eventually did find her on a very rugged section and I had to shoot to kill or get run over ... or worse. Not sure if it was a charge or we were just in her way. VERY close shooting. I can't ask for a more memorable hunt than that.