Youth hunt stolen

[markferrigno]

Colorado recent change to app fee only on Sheep and goats opened the flood gates. In 3 years the odds will be terrible (not that they were awesome to begin with). Sure they will quietly start raising the point fee every year and will be like Wyoming, where a sheep point is 150 dollars.

Well people vote with their wallets and eventually Hunters will do the same. This will most likely be the last year I hunt Waterfowl as the state Waterfowl stamp doubles next year.......

 

[JimP]

I was in Craig last Nov for rifle season and you could not throw a stone without hitting a mule Deer. They were literally everywhere. I saw the biggest Buck I have ever seen in the Walmart parking lot. I saw little 15x15 lawns, each with a Mule Deer on it. Driving from the Hunting Ranch to Craig, nothing but Mulies on either side of the road. Maybe that only happens in NOV but the city and surrounding area were overrun with Deer....

Mule deer usually start their migration in October and by November they should be sitting on their winter grounds.

Also once again look at private vs public land. The "Hunting Ranch" is private and a lot of the property around it is private where they control how many hunters are on it. They want to keep the deer and elk numbers high so that they have huntable stock so to say for their clients. They wouldn't last very long if you paid a few thousand dollars for a hunt and didn't see a animal on their private ground.

 

[markferrigno]

Yes, but again, private land/landowners have ZERO to do with how many tags CPW hands out. The Ranch I hunted on hasn't hunted Mule Deer in 2 or 3 years because it's Elk country out there and his repeat clients don't bother with the Mule Deer Draw because they figure they won't get drawn. I have no idea what the draw stats are there for Mule Deer, maybe they are good maybe not. Maybe I was there for a freak week in Nov when all the Mulies decided to congregate but they were everywhere. I'll be back there in Sep, curious to see what kind of Mule Deer numbers I see.....

 

[JimP]

It's access to the hunting grounds. I know of a number of areas where the private controls all the access into National Forest and BLM and they refuse to allow public hunters access to those public hunting areas.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Colorado recent change to app fee only on Sheep and goats opened the flood gates. In 3 years the odds will be terrible (not that they were awesome to begin with). Sure they will quietly start raising the point fee every year and will be like Wyoming, where a sheep point is 150 dollars.

Do they sell out of the allotment for sheep and goats?

 

[LivingTheDream]

@Hogpatrol yes some sheep odds for non-resident are easily less than 1%. Goat is a little better and Colorado has some ewe only tags which aren't too hard to draw.

 

[Scott CWO]

Thank you for the offer, but it goes back to m original point. If the average hunter can't figure out how to apply for tags,what the regs are, etc. then the system is too complicated and it needs to needs to be fixed.

I have no idea how the state determined the total Mule Deer population decreased 200K in several years but that number seems inflated. How can they even count the state-wide population? Seems like they just make it up.......If CWD is to blame then it seems to me more hunting is answer as less dense deer populations will help prevent the disease from spreading.

Where is the loss of habitat? Why aren't Elk, Bear and Mountain Lion affected? Why only Mule Deer?

If predators are such an issue than why isn't CPW out there shooting Mountain Lions instead of deer?

I hunted Elk in Craig last year, I never saw so many Mule Deer in my life. Every street, every lawn, the Walmart parking lot, on the side of every road, every patch of green had a Mule Deer on it, all times of the day. Mule Deer, like rats in NYC. I can't say how the rest of the sate is but between CoS and Craig there seem to be plenty of Mule Deer, yet Draw only.

Mark,
You just have to learn the data about individual units you want to hunt. On the CPW website you can go to "Hunting Statistics" and look up the mule deer recap draw report from the past years and predict how many points it takes to draw any season in a unit. There is not a one size fits all solution to wildlife management so each unit or group of units that make up a deer herd (called a DAU - Data Analysis Unit) are managed differently. As for the city of Craig, yes there are a lot of deer in town because they have learned that they are protected there. This is not an accurate reflection on the units near Craig. Those units are in a group called DAU-7. Since 2005, that deer herd is down from just over 100,000 deer to about 40,000 deer today. As for other towns and cities, yes there can be a lot of deer around Colorado Springs, Boulder, etc... but again, that is because hunting is not allowed inside city limits. Another factor near Colorado Springs is that only a limited amount of hunting is allowed on the Air Force Academy, which consists of several thousand acres.

All species can be affected by habitat loss. As for elk, they are less susceptible to predation by lion, bear, and coyotes and elk suffer less winterkill. Since elk are grazers, not browsers, they also have not lost as much critical habitat. CWD also does not limit elk populations as much as it does in mule deer. Most of the land development in western Colorado is taking place on mule deer winter range. Elk are also generally more adaptable than mule deer. As for lion, Colorado has fairly aggressive lion hunting quotas in place already but lions are hard to hunt, even with hounds. In Colorado and throughout the mountain west states, mule deer are in a general population decline whereas most other species are holding their own with a few local exceptions.

Population estimates are done by classification counts in the winter by aircraft and vehicle. The animals seen are classified as bucks, does, and yearlings. This data is then fed into a computer along with other data such as license numbers, success rates from hunter surveys, etc... and a population estimate is formulated. These estimates are not exact but are thought to be close.

Let me know if you want help with your 2019 applications.

 

[Scott CWO]

You can see the state mule deer population and the DAU-7 population on this chart.

 

[Scott CWO]

Colorado recent change to app fee only on Sheep and goats opened the flood gates. In 3 years the odds will be terrible (not that they were awesome to begin with). Sure they will quietly start raising the point fee every year and will be like Wyoming, where a sheep point is 150 dollars.

For 2019, the $3 application only fee will go up to $10 for residents and perhaps as high as $20 for nonresidents. The final fees will be discussed at the August Wildlife Commission meeting next month. I have made a recommendation that CPW should charge at least 50% (if not 100%) of the license fee upfront so that the draw and preference point creep does not get out of hand.

 

[LivingTheDream]

@Scott CWO can you PM the info of who you contacted so I can do the same.

 

[Scott CWO]

@Scott CWO can you PM the info of who you contacted so I can do the same.

Check your messages/conversations.

 

[markferrigno]

Mark,
You just have to learn the data about individual units you want to hunt. On the CPW website you can go to "Hunting Statistics" and look up the mule deer recap draw report from the past years and predict how many points it takes to draw any season in a unit. There is not a one size fits all solution to wildlife management so each unit or group of units that make up a deer herd (called a DAU - Data Analysis Unit) are managed differently. As for the city of Craig, yes there are a lot of deer in town because they have learned that they are protected there. This is not an accurate reflection on the units near Craig. Those units are in a group called DAU-7. Since 2005, that deer herd is down from just over 100,000 deer to about 40,000 deer today. As for other towns and cities, yes there can be a lot of deer around Colorado Springs, Boulder, etc... but again, that is because hunting is not allowed inside city limits. Another factor near Colorado Springs is that only a limited amount of hunting is allowed on the Air Force Academy, which consists of several thousand acres.

All species can be affected by habitat loss. As for elk, they are less susceptible to predation by lion, bear, and coyotes and elk suffer less winterkill. Since elk are grazers, not browsers, they also have not lost as much critical habitat. CWD also does not limit elk populations as much as it does in mule deer. Most of the land development in western Colorado is taking place on mule deer winter range. Elk are also generally more adaptable than mule deer. As for lion, Colorado has fairly aggressive lion hunting quotas in place already but lions are hard to hunt, even with hounds. In Colorado and throughout the mountain west states, mule deer are in a general population decline whereas most other species are holding their own with a few local exceptions.

Population estimates are done by classification counts in the winter by aircraft and vehicle. The animals seen are classified as bucks, does, and yearlings. This data is then fed into a computer along with other data such as license numbers, success rates from hunter surveys, etc... and a population estimate is formulated. These estimates are not exact but are thought to be close.

Let me know if you want help with your 2019 applications.

Scott,

Thanks for all the good info. While it does make sense it does make one question why don't folks at CPW allow hunting inside City limits? Also, the current minimum pref. points for the AF Academy is 7, so 7 years to draw a tag in an area loaded with game. I get the populations may been down in certain areas, but why the difficulty to get a tag in areas where the population is exploding and becoming a nuisance?

What is frustrating is CPW makes idiotic proposals like "hiring sharp shooters" instead of just opening up urban archery.

I see they are raising fees, again. So $10 in 2019 to apply for each tag plus doubling the Waterfowl Stamp tax. When are they going to stop using hunters as the state's personal piggy bank? Frustrating to say the least.

Thanks for the offer for 2019, if I am still interested in hunting here I may take you up on it.

 

[Hogpatrol]

@ScottCWO,

"Mark,
You just have to learn the data about individual units you want to hunt. On the CPW website you can go to "Hunting Statistics" and look up the mule deer recap draw report from the past years and predict how many points it takes to draw any season in a unit."

And this is why hunter numbers and youth interest are declining. In short, too much bullshit, too complicated for a newbie and too much ovethinking and micromanaging by game departments. They may think they are doing good but in reality are destroying hunting in the U.S.

As posted before, when the boomer hunters are dead and gone, so will be a large portion of the hunting tradition.

 

[Scott CWO]

Scott,

Thanks for all the good info. While it does make sense it does make one question why don't folks at CPW allow hunting inside City limits? Also, the current minimum pref. points for the AF Academy is 7, so 7 years to draw a tag in an area loaded with game. I get the populations may been down in certain areas, but why the difficulty to get a tag in areas where the population is exploding and becoming a nuisance?

What is frustrating is CPW makes idiotic proposals like "hiring sharp shooters" instead of just opening up urban archery.

I see they are raising fees, again. So $10 in 2019 to apply for each tag plus doubling the Waterfowl Stamp tax. When are they going to stop using hunters as the state's personal piggy bank? Frustrating to say the least.

Thanks for the offer for 2019, if I am still interested in hunting here I may take you up on it.

Mark,
I understand your frustration. It’s not up to the CPW to allow hunting inside city limits. All cities in Colorado are inside a legal hunting unit but the cities do not allow hunting. Boulder County finally did allow cow elk hunting on one of its several open space properties last year for the first time but it took considerable pressure from the CPW and neighboring landowners to get that one victory. Boulder County continues to buy land and stop the hunting on it.

As for the AF Academy, the CPW can only recommend hunting options to the AF and then the AF makes the final call. The CPW’s first choice is NOT sharp shooters I can assure you. As for the 7 points to draw buck tags and the many points it takes to draw other trophy hunts, this actually just shows how much demand there is out there for trophy hunting. In fact it can be seen as an example to create more trophy areas, not less because the demand is out there for large bucks like never before. For my best trophy mule deer areas, I am booking now for 2023. Demand for big mule deer is off the charts because there are only a handful of trophy managed areas in North America.

 

[markferrigno]

@ScottCWO,

"Mark,
You just have to learn the data about individual units you want to hunt. On the CPW website you can go to "Hunting Statistics" and look up the mule deer recap draw report from the past years and predict how many points it takes to draw any season in a unit."

And this is why hunter numbers and youth interest are declining. In short, too much bullshit, too complicated for a newbie and too much ovethinking and micromanaging by game departments. They may think they are doing good but in reality are destroying hunting in the U.S.

As posted before, when the boomer hunters are dead and gone, so will be a large portion of the hunting tradition.

I agree, it is far too complicated to hunt, probably one of the reasons we see declining numbers of hunters, esp. new hunters. I learned to hunt while living in Europe, much, much simpler. No CPW/DNR/FW/ etc. I don't have 7 years to sit around and wait for a tag, then get all of 4 or 7 days to fill it, it is asinine.

As less folks hunt, less money is spent and fees are raised (the "fees" are taxes) resulting in more people saying "screw it"

Most folks don't care about massive Trophys, we don't need "Trophy" managed areas. We need CPW to get the hell out of the way and let private landowners manage their own game. Once the animals have value you will see them managed properly. Right now they have no value to CPW or landowners.

Perhaps, instead creating a system so complicated seminars are needed CPW can work with local governments to implement urban hunting programs..............

 

[Hogpatrol]

@markferrigno, Seminars? Sheesh, I thought Pennsy was bad with their 75+ page Hunting digest that one doesn't get for free anymore. Have to buy one or go digital.