Your opinion why the 7x57 Mauser flourished and the .275 H&H faded

[Schüler Jumbo]

In 1912 Holland & Holland envisioned a complementary pair of sporting rifles and introduced the .375 H&H and .275 H&H. We all know the story of the great .375 while the .275 faded. The 7x57 was introduced in 1892 as a military cartridge and has gone on to stardom. What is your opinion of why the .275 H&H did not find the success that the 7x57 Mauser has earned?

Thank you.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

In 1912 Holland & Holland envisioned a complementary pair of sporting rifles and introduced the .375 H&H and .275 H&H. We all know the story of the great .375 while the .275 faded. The 7x57 was introduced in 1892 as a military cartridge and has gone on to stardom. What is your opinion of why the .275 H&H did not find the success that the 7x57 Mauser has earned?

Thank you.

Think the 275 H&H used a long action IIRC. Maybe just the 375 necked down? Military surplus rifles made the 7x57 cheaper to manufacture.

 

[Aaron N]

Also, there’s the issue of the .287 diameter bore, same as the 280 Ross which would naturally restrict ammo availability. I bet if it was .284 it would still be relevant today

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Also, there’s the issue of the .287 diameter bore, same as the 280 Ross which would naturally restrict ammo availability. I bet if it was .284 it would still be relevant today

Forgot about that. That may be the largest factor really

 

[Jefferry404]

the 270 Winchester was introduced about the same, use std length action and 21 cartridges that use the .277 bullet diameter...

 

[Muskox]

1. Not a military cartridge.
2. Was proprietary, through gentlemen's agreement or litigation it wasn't chambered by other companies.
3. It was before it's time.
4. No one championed it. The 270 is a great example.
5. Would have been a logistical nightmare for anyone trying to support a 7mm H&H rifle at the time, or for certain today.

 

[Schüler Jumbo]

I’ve thought a fast 7 coupled with a medium/heavy caliber would make an optimized battery. Recently reading that Holland & Holland thought that was the case back in 1912 caught me a bit by surprise and further surprised the .275 H&H did not catch on. Remington made it happen 50 years later with the 7mm Rem Mag.

 

[458JCE]

The 275 Rigby (you shoot a better class of animal than the 7x57 ) won the marketing race of the time.

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

275 H&H is a single pass when formed from 300H&H, trim load and shoot. Suitable projectiles at the time were hard to find, a lot of steel cased projectiles were used which would caused erosion at the speeds generated. I’ve still got a few hundred of the 147 gn copper cored steel cased projectiles here that I was given for my 280nitro
Gumpy

 

[SaintPanzer]

I'm thinking about using that spare action I have around to build a .275 H&H, so I've put a little thought into this:

The .287 diameter bullet is a bit of an issue, but they can be found today. Not certain that affected things then, because if it had caught on, there'd be a lot more .287 bullets lying around.

I think it is more of a case that in the original load, the 175 grain bullet was moving at only 2680 fps. A 7X57/175 grain, on the other hand, moves at around 2300 or so fps... so not a huge difference for a magnum round requiring more powder. That, coupled with the availability of military surplus rifles, and there's your answer.

Modern metallurgy should allow a bit higher pressure, and hand loading should get you much closer to 7mm Rem Mag velocities...

 

[Ray B]

One of the biggest factors of becoming a cartridge that is widely used is answered by the military. For example the .222 Remington is a really great cartridge. when it was developed it was curtains for several older .22 centerfires. It sold thousands. Then the 222 Rem Mag superseded it in performance but not in sales. then the military got in the act and altered it into the .223 Rem, aka 5.56mm. Started chambering it in the military small arms and purchased numbers in millions- this spread over into civilian use and now if you see a 22 centerfire rifle in a store the chances are over 90% that it's a 5.56. Same situation with the 7x57- although not to the extreme because of 8x57 competition.

 

[grand veneur]

The British always slightly underloaded their cartridges because they were afraid of excessive pressure in the tropics. Meaning the so-called Tropical Loads. Within a reasonable pressure range, especially when using heavy bullets like the 175gr heavy, you will likely end up with the cartridge 275 H&H Magnum in the class of the cartridge 7x64 Brenneke rather than the 7mm Remington Magnum, although the differences between this two cartridges are not that significant, as far as their ballistic values are concerned.

 

[grand veneur]

I’ve thought a fast 7 coupled with a medium/heavy caliber would make an optimized battery. Recently reading that Holland & Holland thought that was the case back in 1912 caught me a bit by surprise and further surprised the .275 H&H did not catch on. Remington made it happen 50 years later with the 7mm Rem Mag.

It was a matter of the era. Such high-performance cartridges had all problems to establish it when they came onto the market, at a time when shooters were just getting out of the BP era and still had the larger calibers in memory. The cartridge 300 H&H Magnum was very lucky that someone won the 1000-yard shooting competition with it in the 1930s, and Winchester showed thereafter great interest in the cartridge. All the others high performance cartridges from German and British production of this era failed. The cartridge 7mm Rem Mag came onto the market at the best time.

 

[Accidental Villain]

Its this one is’nt it (empty case next to 30-06 Round)?
The 275 Magnum?
Many years ago I was sort of range master arranging obligatory shooting test for rifle hunters. Then, this arch English shap showed up in proper hunting suit & tie and Sherlock Holmes hat asking if he could take the test which he most certainly could. So I showed him where he could wait in line for zeroing hes rifle, and warm up. He replied that it was not necessary.. I was like..Holy @&#€.. Then he pulls out this absolutely beautiful exquisite rifle, a H&H. No scope, all open irons..
I tell him where he could wait in line to take the test, but our native hunters (many of them struggling to take this test) in total awe and disbeliefe waived him on and said he could go first. So he did, I gave the shooting command «when ready,,5shots,,on target - FIRE».. and then he just nailed it..bloody awesome. I said like «thats a pass, well done, excellent shooting» , then signed and stamped his papers and scooped up the empty cases. Pictured is one of them. Bottom stamp says 275 Magnum - Kynoch.

But I should have pictured my fellow domestic hunters, dressed in in ordinary scandinavian hunting clothes to über tacticool «sniper Joe».. nobody did anything, like 20-30 guys all dropped their jaws to the floor over this «thing» from outer space.
Totally unforgetable anyways.

 

[MS 9x56]

I would hazard a guess that the reason the 7x57 flourished while the 275 H&H floundered was a case of simple economics. By the time the 275 H&H came out the 7x57 was well established in an economical Mauser 98 and ammunition was available virtually worldwide. Just a guess of course.

 

[BFaucett]

I thought this might be of interest:

.275 Belted Magnum (H&H) | .275 Flanged Magnum (H&H)​

​

Introduced in England in 1911, the belted version for bolt actions and the flanged for single-shot and double-barrel rifles, the .275 H&H Belted and Flanged Magnums were the first 7mm Magnums. These cartridges came out shortly after the .280 Ross created quite a stir in the small bore high-velocity field. A fair number of American custom rifles have been made for this round, but no factory rifles. The belted version, known in the U.S. as the .275 H&H Magnum, was loaded by the Western Cartridge Co. until 1939. The rimmed load was slightly reduced from the belted. It was developed by F.W. Jones, as an improvement of the .280 Ross. Eley and Kynoch loaded bullets of 105, 140, 143, 150, 160 and 180 grains.​

​

The .275 H&H Magnum is similar to the 7mm Remington Magnum. With modern powders in a good rifle, this ancient British number will do anything that can be done with the 7mm Magnum. Both the flanged and belted versions are still on Holland’s list of current cartridges. Be sure to slug your rifle to get the correct bore size and choose your bullets accordingly. These two cartridges are good long-range cartridges for light mountain or plains game.​

​

-- Frank C. Barnes. Cartridges of the World, 17th Edition (p. 548). Gun Digest Media. Kindle Edition.​

Cheers! Bob F.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Stolen Valor in that case, a la the Schulers...

The 275 Rigby (you shoot a better class of animal than the 7x57 ) won the marketing race of the time

 

[C.W. Richter]

Very interesting. I've never heard of it. I searched, as I wondered if it used the FL 375 cartridge, which clearly it does not. That'd make it even more "interesting" than the 7 RM! Made to fit a std LR chamber.

 

[pilar]

I don’t know, but bring back the 8mm Remington mag

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Because:
- 7x57mm Mauser cartridges were being manufactured by Winchester, Remington, Kynoch, DWM, Norma and Sellier & Bellot. While .275 Holland & Holland Magnum cartridges were only manufactured by Kynoch (until 1957) and Western Cartridge Co. (until 1939). When Kynoch stopped producing ammunition for it, it virtually died out overnight.
- The 7x57mm Mauser could be built on standard length actions. While the .275 Holland & Holland Magnum required a Magnum length action.
- The .287 caliber bullets were less common than the .284 caliber bullets of the 7x57mm Mauser.
- Nobody tried to revive it because the 7mm Remington Magnum came out in 1962 and can basically do everything which the .275 Holland & Holland Magnum can (with the bonus of ammunition being manufactured by every single manufacturer of sporting rifle ammunition worldwide).