Your Opinion on Whale and Dolphin Hunting

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by JKT, Nov 23, 2016.

  1. JKT

    JKT AH Senior Member

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    I'm some cultures around the world such as the Faroe Islands and Had an, hunting whales and dolphins are a big part of the local culture.

    However over the the years, the antis have exerted enormous pressure to have this banned worldwide, to the extent where there are bloody documenaries such as The Cove and such, and where for example Japan for have to use the excuse of "scientific research" instead of saying meat in order to be allowed to hunt whales. I imagine this will be getting ever worse over the years.

    What are your views on hunting whales and dolphins? One the one hand, many of them are plentiful so why not, and they are a good source of meat. On the other some people see the "cute" factor that for them would would put it on the same level as hunting your pet.

    Ethically I suppose the larger whales may be problematic, however the smaller ones I don't see that it is a problem. But I can't really comment on this issue as I am not knowledgeable enough on their anatomy.

    What are your thoughts?
     

  2. bluey

    bluey AH Legend

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    I believe that many species or whales are back in numbers where we should be harvesting them (every country in the world , should have a quota)
    they are a natural , renewable resource

    in this world that's getting smaller every day ,
    everything that holds a place in nature , should be earning its keep, whether its marine life, wild life, forests, or anything renewable

    for some countries that aren't inclined to hunt or use whale , should have every right to lease their quota to countries that do and will utalise the whales.
    the money and employment aspects of it alone ,would be more than enough to guarrentee their survival,
    and also guarantee the policing and scientific studies would be so up to date that numbers would continue to rise as they have in the decades of ban
    dolphins and seals are exactly the same
     
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  3. rookhawk

    rookhawk AH Elite

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    Great question. Let's put it this way.

    A friend of mine that got me into Safari hunting also had a friend many years ago that introduced him to Safari hunting. On that friend of friend's wall in his home in the 1960s was one of his licenses to hunt PEOPLE on Safari in 1951. Yep, in 1951 you could kill a Saan bushman with the blessings of the blacks and the white governments. (He did not use his quota)

    So what does this relate to whales and dolphins? It's probably about time each of us think through the moral implications of killing cetaceans and porpoises for sport in light of the data. Is it immoral? I'm not sure. What are the intellectual and familial connections a being must have in order to not be killed for sport? What is that line of demarcation? Chimps? Cephalopods? Great Apes? Saan? Dolphins?

    My opinion is to form an opinion that is well constructed as I don't have one either and am still sorting one out. What I do know is that if the opinion isn't well based in science, reason and ethics in about 60 years it will seem about as moral as the bushman quota license from 1951. (I believe limit was two if the story was communicated correctly?)
     
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  4. LivingTheDream

    LivingTheDream AH Elite

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    Too slippery of a slope, just because an animal is cute doesn't mean it should get a free pass. If there is a large enough population it should be hunted.
     

  5. rookhawk

    rookhawk AH Elite

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    That would be a problematic moral litmus test for right / wrong. "Cuteness" would not be in the calculus. Sentience would be a good starting point for elaboration.
     
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  6. sierraone

    sierraone SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    I see dolphins regularly in the Gulf of Mexico near my home in Pensacola. It has never crossed my mine to hunt them, so will leave this discussion up to the rest of you!
     
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  7. LivingTheDream

    LivingTheDream AH Elite

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    I never thought it about it either but I don't see why not. Not sure it is something I would want to do for that matter.
     

  8. Wheels

    Wheels AH Legend

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    I'm not saying your friend didn't tell you this, but I am virtually positive that hunting bushmen on license in 1951 is a hoax.

    I have seen a copy of a license on the internet or in a book for Deutsch Sudwestafrika that showed bushmen on quota. Not sure if it was real or not and can't find it now. A Namibian/German whose grandfather was one of the original soldiers to land in what is now Namibia in 1890, told me that some of the original Germans hunted bushmen. I'm not sure if it was on license or just because they stole livestock. From my memory that stopped prior to the commencement of WWI. It would have definitely have stopped by the Treaty of Versailles. There is no way the League of Nations followed by the United Nations would condone such a policy during the time that SouthWest Africa was a L of N mandate or a UN trusteeship.
     
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  9. rookhawk

    rookhawk AH Elite

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    You bring up a good point, it may have been 1931. It was Namibia or Botswana if I have the story straight. The retold story is from a 75 year old that saw it in the Vietnam era as a teen. The Midwest area great white hunter was himself in his 60s or 70s at the time of the telling so it is feasible.

    The point is the same. We need to think about the logic and ethics or else suffer the judgments of history. I can defend the hunting of Kudu to any ethicist. Obviously none of us can defend SAN hunting as a clear point of ethics. Under what ethical principles is the hunting of a porpoise permissible or not? Do we acknowledge some life forms approach us so closely as to not be considered chattel? (E.g. Chimpanzees...we just discovered they practice RELIGIOUS rituals!)
     

  10. Wheels

    Wheels AH Legend

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    Here is a quote from Don Heath on another forum that I just came across.

    .....outside of Namibia (in the period 1890-1910) nobody has alowed 'sport hunting' of bushmen (san). They were shot as semi official policy of the various southern african governments as measures against stock theaft....

    ....In 1981, the new government of zimbabwe reversed the 50 year old policy of Rhodesia to 'live and let live' with the bushmen who lived and hunted in Hwange national park. The army with the suport of cuban helicopter crew and North korean instructors were sent in. No prisoners was the policy, and it is safe to say that tourists will no longer encounter bushmen living in Hwange....
     

  11. Nyati

    Nyati AH Ambassador

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    I will agree with the opinion of our fisheries expert in this forum, Bluey !
     

  12. Bsto270

    Bsto270 AH Enthusiast

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    I would have to agree with @bluey on this one. There is a big difference between conservation and preservation, and I am a proponent of conservation regarding a useable species in good numbers. I am not a huge fan of the idea of everyone going in on them at once with modern whaling equipment (although it would likely be more humane than it was way back when), but if it's going to happen, it should be regulated like he said. And as far as the few cultures that hunt them for food in subsistence type settings (Inuit, Faroese, etc) I say let it ride. They have been doing it long before anyone got warm and fuzzy feelings for Cetaceans and will be doing it as long as they can, with or without the world's blessings.
     

  13. Velo Dog

    Velo Dog SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Great post bluey,

    Although I could not have worded my thoughts as well as you have done here on whaling / marine mammal harvest in general nonetheless, I'm definitely +1 with you on this.
    It has always appeared to me that the leftists and spoiled brat whiners only get ramped up if some animal is perceived as "adorable" or "cute".
    I believe this is why the majority of these nuts usually have no complaint with fishing but, they truly hate anyone who shoots a duck - "fish are slimey but ducks are cute".
    These same people would wet their diapers if they ever watched their beloved wolves feeding on a moose that has been run to exhaustion, then pulled down and torn bit by bit, while it is still alive.

    Whaling is done here in Northern Alaska by the Inupiaq people (Norton Sound / Bering Sea Eskimo), with a quota system, they have negotiated with the US Fish & Wildlife Administration).
    To say that it is extremely important to the villages there, is an understatement.
    Whaling is definitely a spiritual event there (and I wish I could join them sometimes).

    I've not had the privilege to eat whale meat yet but I have eaten seal meat and it was good (simmered in a crockpot with gravy and onions).
    If whale meat ever makes it into the market place here or someone visiting Anchorage is kind enough to share their whale meat with me, I would enjoy the chance to try it.
    My wife tried it up in Barrow, and said it almost had no flavor but was very tough to chew (probably needed either pounding or, perhaps slow cooking for many hours to tenderize it).

    As long as the animal numbers are up to harvestable levels, I think it is shallow thinking, for humanity to not utilize such a resource.
    I do not know if there are dolphins this far north but, there are definitely porpoise, which appear to be quite similar.
    Personally, I would not be interested in hunting whale (due to the huge logistics issue) but, if it was lawful for white people to do so in Alaska, I would hunt smaller marine mammals, no worries.

    Cheers,
    Velo Dog.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016
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  14. rookhawk

    rookhawk AH Elite

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    Gents, we're sophisticated people on this forum. Can we take a step back and explore the question in an organized manner soup to nuts? Again, I've not given it a morality inspection but neither have any of the respondents.

    Question was: is it ethical/appropriate to hunt whales and dolphins?

    If the answer to that is yes, and we've not had anyone lay out a pro/con argument to the ethics, the follow up question would be "are their sufficient numbers, is there utility, is it sustainable, does it help the species to hunt them?". The thread is answering the latter question, not the former.

    Is it moral/ethical to hunt/kill: apes, chimps, whales, dolphins, parrots, able bodied humans, children under the age of 3. If the answer differs logically between the answers, argue the nuanced difference. I bring up all the above to see if there is a difference in the answer among them and if so, under what principle.

    With chimps, they have superior intelligence to humans on a few levels, particularly in relation to memory. They have 98% similar DNA, a moral code, now we found evidence of religious practice and tool making. Also a demonstrable intelligence of a 3-4 year old human child. For these reasons, I am ethically opposed to hunting chimps.

    Under those principles, is there similar ethics to suggest a whale or dolphin has met some or all the same conditions? What about parrots which also meet many of those conditions? What if animals on this list have higher intelligence / sentience than some humans? Still moral?

    I don't know the answers to these questions but I'd like to hear the points explored. Heck, there are people against killing dogs and horses for food/sport even amongst hunters and they are considerably more primitive animals. (I've ate and hunted equine myself and think their elevation is illogical)

    Please discuss.
     

  15. Ray B

    Ray B AH Fanatic

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    Rookhawk- Given the bell-shaped curve applied to the intelligence of Chimps and Humans, 98% similarity would mean that several chimps would be smarter than some of the humans- possibly even smart enough to become a community organizer or politician. Good Luck and Best Wishes on the return of some of the smarter ones in January.
     

  16. tigris115

    tigris115 AH Enthusiast

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    As long as it's not detrimental to populations, go for it. I can't imagine how one would prepare that though. Must be really oily too.
     
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  17. Savage Hunter

    Savage Hunter AH Fanatic

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    my trophy room is not big enough to adequately mount them.
     
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  18. Royal27

    Royal27 AH Ambassador

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    Just need a vaulted ceiling, that's all.

    1-milstein-hall-whale_650.jpg
     
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  19. Ray B

    Ray B AH Fanatic

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    I see the antis have changed the name of the smaller whale: Killer Whale was too adversarial, now they are Orcas- much more politically correct and don't cause a menacing image of the poor misunderstood creatures.
     
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  20. Pheroze

    Pheroze SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    I am not sure about this logic. The obvious difference to me is that the SAN are human. But, putting aside the species issue, perhaps the question is "why" rather than "what". If we are just killing something because we can, sentient or not, then a moral switch has not been set. Pigs and octopuses (octopodes?) are recognized as being some of the smartest creatures, but ever been to a Greek restaurant?

    Whale has a million uses. I don't see why they cannot be part of a properly manged system of harvest to ensure their survival, just as societies have for ages.
     
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