With regards to "hard" bullets and double rifle

[KJE81]

I just got a copy of Graeme Wrights "Shooting the British Double Rifle" last week and have now read most of it. Very interesting book, but I have to confess that I got somewhat worried about what he writes about steel jacketed bullets and how they might impact the rifling in the barrels.

Since my new double rifle is regulated with Hornady DGX/DGS I have only shoot these and are allready approaching 100 fired rounds but now when I read about the problems with steel jacketed bullets I started to think that it might be stupid to continue using these bullets since both the DGX and the DGS are steel jacketed. So does anyone here have any information about just how bad shooting these bullets are for the barrels?

The double rifle in question is new and the barrels therefore should have modern steel but as far as I understand Graemes writing even modern rifles would suffer from these steel jacketed bullets.

I was thinking about changing to Woodleigh bullets instead which have the same bullet weight and also the same shape and ballistic coefficent and therefore should work as well with regards to regulation, I handload so that would be no problem and have found at least a couple of boxes to buy awaiting the reconstruction of their factory.

So does anyone feel that they could reassure me about wether its safe or not to keep using Hornady DGS or DGX?

 

[Fabnosh]

I've been using both DGS and DGX bullets - the new bonded bullets (posted a thread on my experience showing terminal performance) in my double very satisfactorily. The bullets do have quite a thick copper outer jacket so I'm not totally sure what the issue is. I've seen no signs of wear or over pressure and the barrel throats and contours are still perfect.

I would suggest though that working up a new load for a double for which regulation ammo is still readily available is for the masochistic only. I had to create a new load that worked with the regulation that my double came with because of the lack of regulation ammo....and it took a long time.

I'd also take some comfort from the fact that if the manufacturer chose that particular bullet they did so in the knowledge that it was right for their gun and not that it would wreck their barrels.

I hope that helps

FN

 

[KJE81]

I've been using both DGS and DGX bullets - the new bonded bullets (posted a thread on my experience showing terminal performance) in my double very satisfactorily. The bullets do have quite a thick copper outer jacket so I'm not totally sure what the issue is. I've seen no signs of wear or over pressure and the barrel throats and contours are still perfect.

I would suggest though that working up a new load for a double for which regulation ammo is still readily available is for the masochistic only. I had to create a new load that worked with the regulation that my double came with because of the lack of regulation ammo....and it took a long time.

I'd also take some comfort from the fact that if the manufacturer chose that particular bullet they did so in the knowledge that it was right for their gun and not that it would wreck their barrels.

I hope that helps

FN

Thank you for answering, it sounds great that you have not experienced any wear to the barrels of you double rifle.

I did not realized that the outer copper gilding was that thick, I was under the impression that it was merely for "lubrication".

 

[Fabnosh]

Take a look at this thread

DGX terminal performance (300grn .375)​

Sorry, I don't know how to link to it but a search with find it

The photos of the bullet show pretty clearly the copper jacket.

hope that helps

FN

 

[KJE81]

Take a look at this thread

DGX terminal performance (300grn .375)​

Sorry, I don't know how to link to it but a search with find it

The photos of the bullet show pretty clearly the copper jacket.

hope that helps

FN

Thanks for the info, I will read it through

Edit: Just realized that I read it before but did not studied the pictures so I missed that the copper was still there on the fired bullets

 

[KJE81]

Does anyone else have any thoughts? It does feels better when Fabnosh informed me of the thickness of the copper jacket that should save the barrel rifling from coming in direct contact with the steel in the bullet but I still wonder if anyone have had any negative experience with steel jacketed bullets in a double rifle?

 

[spike.t]

I just got a copy of Graeme Wrights "Shooting the British Double Rifle" last week and have now read most of it. Very interesting book, but I have to confess that I got somewhat worried about what he writes about steel jacketed bullets and how they might impact the rifling in the barrels.

Since my new double rifle is regulated with Hornady DGX/DGS I have only shoot these and are allready approaching 100 fired rounds but now when I read about the problems with steel jacketed bullets I started to think that it might be stupid to continue using these bullets since both the DGX and the DGS are steel jacketed. So does anyone here have any information about just how bad shooting these bullets are for the barrels?

The double rifle in question is new and the barrels therefore should have modern steel but as far as I understand Graemes writing even modern rifles would suffer from these steel jacketed bullets.

I was thinking about changing to Woodleigh bullets instead which have the same bullet weight and also the same shape and ballistic coefficent and therefore should work as well with regards to regulation, I handload so that would be no problem and have found at least a couple of boxes to buy awaiting the reconstruction of their factory.

So does anyone feel that they could reassure me about wether its safe or not to keep using Hornady DGS or DGX?

If your rifle was regulated with that factory ammunition....by the manufacturer presuming VC...or heym then I really don't understand what you are worried about.....sorry more over thinking me thinks.....

 

[KJE81]

If your rifle was regulated with that factory ammunition....by the manufacturer presuming VC...or heym then I really don't understand what you are worried about.....sorry more over thinking me thinks.....

It is a small Italian maker, but I suppose you are right, I tend to overthink things, its just that this double rifle represents such a huge (for me) investment and I would hate to ruin it if it indeed is a problem. Unfortunately the maker is on holiday so no luck getting an answer from them until late august.

 

[spike.t]

It is a small Italian maker, but I suppose you are right, I tend to overthink things, its just that this double rifle represents such a huge (for me) investment and I would hate to ruin it if it indeed is a problem. Unfortunately the maker is on holiday so no luck getting an answer from them until late august.

As I said if they're using them to regulate their rifles....you ain't going to have an issue...so shoot and enjoy

 

[KJE81]

As I said if they're using them to regulate their rifles....you ain't going to have an issue...so shoot and enjoy

I really should, perhaps using only the DGX with less steel in the construction just for extra safety

 

[spike.t]

I really should, perhaps using only the DGX with less steel in the construction just for extra safety

Yours or the animals.....

 

[spike.t]

And also I think its the mono metal bullets, or the earlier ones that were bad to use in doubles....a lot of the older ammunition had steel jackets, but with the lead core I believe had a bit of give so as to speak

 

[Rare Breed]

I just got a copy of Graeme Wrights "Shooting the British Double Rifle" last week and have now read most of it. Very interesting book, but I have to confess that I got somewhat worried about what he writes about steel jacketed bullets and how they might impact the rifling in the barrels.

Since my new double rifle is regulated with Hornady DGX/DGS I have only shoot these and are allready approaching 100 fired rounds but now when I read about the problems with steel jacketed bullets I started to think that it might be stupid to continue using these bullets since both the DGX and the DGS are steel jacketed. So does anyone here have any information about just how bad shooting these bullets are for the barrels?

The double rifle in question is new and the barrels therefore should have modern steel but as far as I understand Graemes writing even modern rifles would suffer from these steel jacketed bullets.

I was thinking about changing to Woodleigh bullets instead which have the same bullet weight and also the same shape and ballistic coefficent and therefore should work as well with regards to regulation, I handload so that would be no problem and have found at least a couple of boxes to buy awaiting the reconstruction of their factory.

So does anyone feel that they could reassure me about wether its safe or not to keep using Hornady DGS or DGX?

I have a Chapuis 450-400 DR. It was regulated with Hornady DGX. I shot about 200 rounds through it of their store bought off the shelf. No barrel wear at all. I wanted better regulation and wanted a different powder and Woodleigh which I have a lot of. JJ did the work and I have shot about 100 more rounds with this inclusive of yesterday with 25 rounds. Regulation at 1 inch with no sign of barrel wear nor fear of any. Hope this helps

 

[ay2626]

And also I think its the mono metal bullets, or the earlier ones that were bad to use in doubles....a lot of the older ammunition had steel jackets, but with the lead core I believe had a bit of give so as to speak

Pretty sure this is the correct answer. Early monometal and vintage doubles had issues. New monos have a better design to reduce potential problem but don’t think I would try that in a vintage double. A new double rifle should be able to handle any of the modern bullets if you can find a load that regulates.

 

[KJE81]

And also I think its the mono metal bullets, or the earlier ones that were bad to use in doubles....a lot of the older ammunition had steel jackets, but with the lead core I believe had a bit of give so as to speak

When you put it like that it does sounds really logical

 

[KJE81]

I have a Chapuis 450-400 DR. It was regulated with Hornady DGX. I shot about 200 rounds through it of their store bought off the shelf. No barrel wear at all. I wanted better regulation and wanted a different powder and Woodleigh which I have a lot of. JJ did the work and I have shot about 100 more rounds with this inclusive of yesterday with 25 rounds. Regulation at 1 inch with no sign of barrel wear nor fear of any. Hope this helps

Thanks for your answer its nice to hear that you have no wear at all after 200 rounds, I have shot 95 with mine, about half DGX and the other half DGS and no wear yet. Just got a bit spooked about it when reading that book, never heard about that particular issue before.

According to the targets supplied with my double rifle it is regulated to about 2 inches at 100 meters with scope which I seems to duplicate but for some reason i get about the same at 50 meters, thought that would be half, but might be my shooting skill that is to bad

 

[KJE81]

Pretty sure this is the correct answer. Early monometal and vintage doubles had issues. New monos have a better design to reduce potential problem but don’t think I would try that in a vintage double. A new double rifle should be able to handle any of the modern bullets if you can find a load that regulates.

Thanks for your answer, I did found a post by Velo Dog about the steel jackets of the Hornady bullets in the thread "Hornady just announced bonded DGX", he wrotes and I quote "Making the jacket of malleable steel, plated over with softer metal to avoid damaging rifle bores (especially important with super expensive English doubles) was a **fairly good plan." If this is the case I guess I really have nothing to worry about, I guess this is also what you mean when you write that new monos have a better design?

 

[spike.t]

Thanks for your answer its nice to hear that you have no wear at all after 200 rounds, I have shot 95 with mine, about half DGX and the other half DGS and no wear yet. Just got a bit spooked about it when reading that book, never heard about that particular issue before.

According to the targets supplied with my double rifle it is regulated to about 2 inches at 100 meters with scope which I seems to duplicate but for some reason i get about the same at 50 meters, thought that would be half, but might be my shooting skill that is to bad

2 inches apart at 50 and same at 100 is a very well regulated double rifle ....you should be seriously happy with that....

 

[KJE81]

2 inches apart at 50 and same at 100 is a very well regulated double rifle ....you should be seriously happy with that....

I truly is really happy with this, just curious as to why it is (about) the same at 50 meters, I was under the impression that the spread between the barrels usually doubled in 100 meters. But no complaints of the results