Winchester 70 7mm Mag to 416 Ruger

Discussion in '.375 & Up' started by TOBY458, Dec 26, 2018.

  1. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Elite

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    I recently bought a used Winchester model 70 stainless classic in 7mm Rem Mag. I got the rifle for a steal, so I'm thinking about rebarreling it to 416 Ruger. The only problem I see so far is won't feed 416 Ruger as it stands. I have a few cartridges left over from a previous 416 Ruger, and tried them in this rifle. I believe the extra width and less taper of the cartridge is causing it not to hit the feed ramp correctly. I wonder if a different follower would fix the problem? The feed rails are already about as wide as you could go, so I would think they're ok. I want the end result to be a lightweight rifle with a 21 1/4" #4 barrel, and a synthetic stock. 8lbs max. Preferably 7lbs 12oz, or thereabouts. Anyone tried this conversion?
     

  2. greyfox

    greyfox AH Fanatic

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    Love the idea and direction on this!!! Not hitting the feed ramp correctly? As in too horizontal? The width is OK (Ruger cases are same diameter as the belt on a &7 mag). Follower may correct this though I'd first look at the follower's spring, It may be misshaped and could be replaced with a more stout (stouter??) spring.

    Wife and I jest went through Madison darn it! Our son recently moved to Roswell so we should be up that way quite a bit!
     
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  3. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Elite

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    The cartridges go in at the wrong angle causing the bullet to hit the back of the barrel. It's worse on one side than the other. Meaning with a full magazine, the first off the top doesn't feed well, but the second one down is better but not perfect. I think maybe a different follower would angle the cartridges more toward the center of the barrel. It's funny, because the 7mm mag feeds extremely well, and I tried a 338 Win mag and it was perfect too. Maybe the larger diameter bullet is to blame?
     

  4. greyfox

    greyfox AH Fanatic

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    Without handling the rifle and seeing for myself: I doubt the diameter of the bullet is the issue, PROBABLY the diameter of the case, Even though it's the same diameter of the belt on a 338 win mag or a 7mm Rem Mag, the diameter, not only side to side (feed rails) but top to bottom (follower).
    "Hitting the back of the barrel" HIgh or Low? Left or right of center?
    Feed ramp may be the issue, although NOT caliber or cartridge specific, the "fatter" case of the 416 wouldn't "ride" the rails at the correct angle.

    Just as an aside: I'd bet q 416 taylor would feed without a problem because it's built in the 338WM and 7mm Rem Mag case.
     
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  5. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Elite

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    Yes, I was thinking the same thing about the 416 Taylor. The bullet hits the side of the back of the barrel. I did try a 458 win mag and it would feed either. So, I'm thinking the feed ramp may need to be opened up a bit. But, I would prefer to try a different follower first and see if that helps.
     

  6. Edge

    Edge AH Fanatic

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    Ran across this earlier today and maybe it can help you out? No clue what is in the booklet or if it’s just a way to sell more of their parts. Maybe worth spending the $10.

    88D33B5A-1C12-48F9-ABAB-3ED05D9E65F8.png
     
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  7. greyfox

    greyfox AH Fanatic

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    Buy at least two followers, (NUmrich??) one to figure it all out, one to make right for use.
    If' the bullet is hitting left or right, then yeah, i"d start with follower, absolutely.
    The 458 not feeding suggests feed ramp, but again, I'd start with the follower. good luck.

    Just edited: There's a Winchester 416 Rem for sale on this site - probbaly a lot cheaper in the long run....
     
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  8. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Elite

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    I spoke with JD Jones with SSK Industries and he said that the 416 Ruger could not be made to feed well in my action. I guess Winchester doesn't make an appropriate follower and magazine box to make it work. He said there's not much that can be done to the feed rails either. I already have a Winchester Safari Express in 416 Rem., but I was wanting a lighter weight stainless rifle. I'm thinking a Montana Rifle in 416 Rem might work. It only weighs about 8 lbs I think.
     
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  9. mdwest

    mdwest AH Elite

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    Ive got a handful of 416 Taylor dummy rounds made up with different OAL and different bullets (some with barnes banded solids.. some with barnes TSX)...

    I used them to test feeding and the cycling of the action on my mauser conversion..

    I'd be happy to lend them to you if you want to give the taylor a try and see how that works out for you..
     
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  10. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Elite

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    Thanks for the offer! I guess at this point I will maybe just look into another route. I like the idea of 416 Taylor, but don't like the handloading only proposition. I do handload all of my big bore stuff, but it's nice to be able to buy factory ammo in a pinch. How do you like the Taylor?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 2, 2019

  11. mdwest

    mdwest AH Elite

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    I absolutely love it... only marginally more recoil than my 375 H&H, but with very similar ballistics to 416 Rigby (can push 400gr 2500fps)...

    It’s not hard to hand load for at all... and while 416 Taylor head stamped brass is available (Norma, quality cartridge, and others make it), 458 win mag brass is easily turned into 416 Taylor brass as well...

    Lee dies are readily available and cheap also...

    I haven’t shot any game with it yet.. but plan on taking it on a buff hunt soon...

    I’m honestly amazed the Taylor never caught on better with the 416 crowd... it’s the “original” 416 Ruger... designed to fit in a standard action, match Rigby ballistics, etc.. with lower recoil, less powder used, etc..
     
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  12. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Elite

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    Yes it does seem like a nice little cartridge. I may ask JD Jones how he feels about doing that conversion instead. After all, there will always be 458 Win Mag brass around.
     

  13. mdwest

    mdwest AH Elite

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    Check out the Chuck Hawks Recoil Table.. 416 Rem Mag, 416 Rigby, 416 Ruger, and 416 Taylor all push a 400 grain .416 projectile roughly the same speed. The Taylor has lowest recoil energy and recoil velocity of the four though. Both the ruger and the taylor are high pressure cartridges by comparison with the rem mag and the rigby (62K PSI and 65K PSI respectively).. but thats not really any concern in a Win 70 or a Mauser 98 action (both more than strong enough to handle those pressures)..

    https://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm
     
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  14. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Elite

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    Sounds good to me! Thanks for the info!
     

  15. colorado

    colorado AH Fanatic

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    Why not just go 416 Rem Mag? The Model 70 Classic stainless came in that caliber. I know because I bought my son a LH one, had the barrel cut to 22" and the whole thing CeraKoted for him as a present when he got out of the military. They're nice rifles.
     
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  16. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Elite

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    I've been looking for stainless 416 RM rifles for several years, and have never seen a Winchester for sale. All you'll find are Montana Rifle and Remington 700 every now and then. I thought about a Montana, but I had one in 375 h&h awhile back and the stock fit was pretty bad, and bedding was sloppy as well. Definitely not what you'd expect on a $1550 rifle. I'm hoping their new management will improve QC. I have a Winchester Safari Express in 416 Rem Mag, with a Mcmillan stock, but I was wanting something in stainless, that's quite a bit lighter, and shorter. I also had a Ruger Guide gun in 416 Ruger, I probably should've kept. I just don't really like the threaded barrel they come with and if you cut it off, it's only 19 1/2" of barrel left over. I really want something around 21 1/4"- 22". Kind of a compromise barrel length.
    I know.....I'm picky!
     

  17. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Elite

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    I spoke with JD Jones again today and he's somewhat optimistic that the 416 Taylor will work in my action. I'm going to make some dummy rounds and try it. If it works well, I may be sending it to him for a new barrel and sights. Looks like a #4 contour barrel will work at 22". Should make the rifle come in around 8lbs.
     
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  18. Milehighshooter

    Milehighshooter AH Enthusiast

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    Taylor will work just fine.

    However, there MIGHT be a way to make the Ruger work. Midwest still has some 300 RUM followers. Unfortunately, no more magazines. But some one still offers them, maybe Sunny Hill or Weibe? The RUM follower/ magazine would most likely work.

    However, you're still on the right track with the Taylor for making life easy. On that note, the local Cabelas has a 1909 Argy 416 Taylor in a synthetic stock with a fluted barrel. It's a REALLY well done rifle, and has some factory ammo with it for $1500

    If you still wanted the Ruger, it would probably be easier to rechamber the Mauser.
     
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  19. Milehighshooter

    Milehighshooter AH Enthusiast

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  20. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Elite

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    Wonder if the RUM follower would fit the standard mag box if it was trimmed?
     

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