Where would you go for the biggest buffalo NOT bred in captivity

[lhook7]

Uganda. You will see hundreds, if not thousands, of buffalo. You would have 3 on license which is handy also.

 

[Nhoro]

Rowland Ward favours wide bulls of Tanzania, Sci favours Southern countries. I would suggest Bubye and Nuanetsi in Zim. Areas around Gonarezhou park are where I have seen biggest wild buffalo. A couple were captured there for a breeding program at around 60 " but those are 2 in 30 000. You have to be lucky or hunt a lot of buffalo.

Personally I favour the RW measurement because width doesn't change much with age. So old bulls don't lose score. Sci follows the curl so deep curls and sharp points gain inches. A mature bull will score more than the same bull in old age.i think old aged bull is a better trophy and would like Sci to reflect that.

 

[Green Chile]

It's nice to see the Rigby award and discussions of "what is a trophy" moving in better directions. Part of the problem is that the people who can make rule changes are the ones running things. They have a conflict or bias in that changing the rules now leads to their animals scoring differently. Cape buff are currently scored in a way that favors younger bulls that are still green and have not contributed to the gene pool. They are still immature but score high and if you let them mature, they will score lower. That's just a real problem for both ethics and genetics.

 

[375Fox]

It's nice to see the Rigby award and discussions of "what is a trophy" moving in better directions. Part of the problem is that the people who can make rule changes are the ones running things. They have a conflict or bias in that changing the rules now leads to their animals scoring differently. Cape buff are currently scored in a way that favors younger bulls that are still green and have not contributed to the gene pool. They are still immature but score high and if you let them mature, they will score lower. That's just a real problem for both ethics and genetics.

I’ll start by saying I can care less about entering any trophy I’ll ever take into any record book. I like the current age over inches discussion, but I think a lot of hunters have unrealistic expectations. There aren’t that many 15 year old buffalo. Every scrum cap isn’t automatically 15 years old. Younger bulls break their horns too and also join dugga boy groups. Most buffalo are taken in the 8-10/11 year age range. It’s an economical range to hunt them that gives good opportunity at success in a 10 day hunt. If hunters only want 12+ year old bulls a lot of hunters will go home without a bull and prices will rise for the areas to still pay for themselves. Some of the best areas listed cost considerably more in exchange for that very low quota. Buffalo bulls have to survive a lot of fights, lions, poachers, other hunters to make it to that 12+ age. Not every area can produce it regularly. I like the discussion, but I get tired of many hunters adding a few years on to their 8 or 9 year old bulls because everyone wants to say they hunted an old bull. 8-9 is still a good bull, hard bossed, and fully mature. It’s a good discussion, but I think a lot of hunters are being dishonest with themselves. What pricing are hunters willing to pay and what success rates are expected?

 

[Hornedfrogbbq]

I’ll start by saying I can care less about entering any trophy I’ll ever take into any record book. I like the current age over inches discussion, but I think a lot of hunters have unrealistic expectations. There aren’t that many 15 year old buffalo. Every scrum cap isn’t automatically 15 years old. Younger bulls break their horns too and also join dugga boy groups. Most buffalo are taken in the 8-10/11 year age range. It’s an economical range to hunt them that gives good opportunity at success in a 10 day hunt. If hunters only want 12+ year old bulls a lot of hunters will go home without a bull and prices will rise for the areas to still pay for themselves. Some of the best areas listed cost considerably more in exchange for that very low quota. Buffalo bulls have to survive a lot of fights, lions, poachers, other hunters to make it to that 12+ age. Not every area can produce it regularly. I like the discussion, but I get tired of many hunters adding a few years on to their 8 or 9 year old bulls because everyone wants to say they hunted an old bull. 8-9 is still a good bull, hard bossed, and fully mature. It’s a good discussion, but I think a lot of hunters are being dishonest with themselves. What pricing are hunters willing to pay and what success rates are expected?

110%

 

[DLSJR]

Rowland Ward favours wide bulls of Tanzania, Sci favours Southern countries. I would suggest Bubye and Nuanetsi in Zim. Areas around Gonarezhou park are where I have seen biggest wild buffalo. A couple were captured there for a breeding program at around 60 " but those are 2 in 30 000. You have to be lucky or hunt a lot of buffalo.

Personally I favour the RW measurement because width doesn't change much with age. So old bulls don't lose score. Sci follows the curl so deep curls and sharp points gain inches. A mature bull will score more than the same bull in old age.i think old aged bull is a better trophy and would like Sci to reflect that.

And Nhoro just described exactly where I’d be looking. There were reportedly some exceptional buffalo moved to Malilangwe for breeding, both bulls & cows. Also some of the Tanzania areas, especially around Tarangire but there are other great places in TZ as well.

 

[steve white]

Isn't Tarangire where Robin Hurt's client shot that absolutely monstrous bull?

 

[375Fox]

Isn't Tarangire where Robin Hurt's client shot that absolutely monstrous bull?

Tarangire is a National park. There is no hunting on park only adjacent areas.

 

[Wooster]

Namibia's Waterberg Plateau Park has a reputation for outstanding buffalo. They are certainly priced at a premium too.

I came face to face with a 46'er there after a long long stalk up and down steep terrain, over rock features and through thick bush. My PH had seen him a couple times before earlier in the season and thought he knew where he was watering. We picked up his tracks in the morning at the small water spot, and after hours of hiking my PH whispered "I think we're getting close". Not 50 feet later I was following a few yards behind him and to my right my eye caught just a glint of light in the dark shadow of some short brush. I stopped to look and my eyes focused on an absolute monster bull bedded just a few feet away. We were walking right past him! I dropped to a knee out of reflex for some reason and we were literally nose to nose. He could've mowed me over before I lifted a finger. Instead, right after I whispered "he's right there!" to my PH who was looking back, the bull spun a 180 in the blink of an eye and was gone. We tracked for several more hours but never got on him again. But one of my best hunting memories. Being face to face with that beast was unbelievable. To my knowledge, he is still roaming the plateau.

 

[375Fox]

And Nhoro just described exactly where I’d be looking. There were reportedly some exceptional buffalo moved to Malilangwe for breeding, both bulls & cows. Also some of the Tanzania areas, especially around Tarangire but there are other great places in TZ as well.

First I’ve seen mention of that area. Hopefully it’ll become a hunting destination like Bubye or Nuanetsi.

 

[318AE]

I’ll start by saying I can care less about entering any trophy I’ll ever take into any record book. I like the current age over inches discussion, but I think a lot of hunters have unrealistic expectations. There aren’t that many 15 year old buffalo. Every scrum cap isn’t automatically 15 years old. Younger bulls break their horns too and also join dugga boy groups. Most buffalo are taken in the 8-10/11 year age range. It’s an economical range to hunt them that gives good opportunity at success in a 10 day hunt. If hunters only want 12+ year old bulls a lot of hunters will go home without a bull and prices will rise for the areas to still pay for themselves. Some of the best areas listed cost considerably more in exchange for that very low quota. Buffalo bulls have to survive a lot of fights, lions, poachers, other hunters to make it to that 12+ age. Not every area can produce it regularly. I like the discussion, but I get tired of many hunters adding a few years on to their 8 or 9 year old bulls because everyone wants to say they hunted an old bull. 8-9 is still a good bull, hard bossed, and fully mature. It’s a good discussion, but I think a lot of hunters are being dishonest with themselves. What pricing are hunters willing to pay and what success rates are expected?

100% agree. We’re starting this whole conversation in the context of a wild, unfenced area, and that generally means lots of predators, including lions. Very few bulls survive past twelve years in an area with lots of lions.

You can find old bulls in a fenced area if the operator simply had his prices set too high for a few seasons

 

[LIMPOPO NORTH SAFARIS]

I'm interested in folks' top 3 hunting areas/specific concessions for the biggest non-captisvity bred buffalo. For this question , if a buffalo herd is self-sustaining on enough land (call it 25,000 acres or more) they are "free-roaming" so a few South African hunting concessions might make the grade. I haven't spent time looking at the record books to see where the top animals were when shot but i thought i'd get a survey of "This is where you go to shoot a massive, massive mature (hard bossed) buffalo." To try and be specific, I'm defining massive by scores in the two respective organizations that do this sort of thing. Could be spread, could be boss and curl included.

What I don't want to discuss or consider would be Place and Take areas or folks that buy huge buffalo to be shot. I'd like them to have been bred NOT in a genetic game farm area.

Dear @Hornedfrogbbq we have the exact place you are looking for sir will send you a dm.

 

[DLSJR]

First I’ve seen mention of that area. Hopefully it’ll become a hunting destination like Bubye or Nuanetsi.

There is no sport hunting that I’m aware of taking place on Malilangwe. It is a large private reserve owned by Paul Tudor Jones that lies along the northern border of Gonarezhou. They did some work with the park, getting some huge buffalo from the park to use for breeding. I was agreeing with Nhoro about some of the areas in that region having very big buffalo.

Malilangwe also has a large population of Black & White Rhinos.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I really like the Southern Sealous in Tanzania for good sized Cape buffalo. It’s about as wild country as Africa has to offer. Aside from copious amounts of game, much of the hunting areas can only be traversed if you cut a path through the foliage with a machete.

 

[Foxi]

Isn't Tarangire where Robin Hurt's client shot that absolutely monstrous bull?

That was back in Lolgorian, Kenya, in 1973, if you mean the Flick buffalo with 54"
That was in the Massai desert(find no word for Steppe).

Today, are wheat fields there+cattle, and in Tanzania, everything is pretty thin.
To spend money going there for buff.No.
But genetically, they said it should be the best material(not so long ago).
At Rowland Ward, you're in with a minimum of 45 inches. Age doesn't matter.
Fortunately, standards have changed, and I don't necessarily think a wide bicycle handlebar is attractive just because it's 45 inches.
What is a great trophy? For me, a number of things have to come together.
At RW the best buff -over decades - had 64" it was a cow (actually also ?)
Good dreams for your good buff,I've it all days

Foxi

 

[Foxi]

Uganda. You will see hundreds, if not thousands, of buffalo. You would have 3 on license which is handy also.

you have Nile buffs there.
At Rowland Ward ,not more that five buffs are in......

 

[PCC600]

I don’t understand this fixation with record bulls ( or deer , antelope whatever ) . I think the SCI / Rowland Ward measurement stuff is all bullshit. Hunt the old bulls that are no longer contributing to the gene pool . They will alway be more interesting animals and generally it will also be a more interesting hunt .

 

[grand veneur]

I also don't understand why anyone would look for a record buffalo in terms of spread of the horns. With such hunting practice, many younger or middle-aged buffaloes will fall victim to the hunter. A nice trophy is indeed that of an old buffalo, especially if it was a real Dagga Boy.

 

[grand veneur]

you have Nile buffs there.
At Rowland Ward ,not more that five buffs are in......

I don't know what a Nile buffalo is supposed to be. I have hunted buffalo in the Karamoja and in southwest Uganda. I did not see any difference between them and the other buffalo from southeast and south Africa. Only the buffalo from western Africa differ somewhat from the other savanna buffalo.

 

[Scott CWO]

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to take a big, mature, wide buffalo. I’ve shot an ancient scrum cap bull broken off on both sides. I’ve also shot a 39” and 40” bull. Someday, I hope to connect with a mature bull well over 40”. I like the look.

I’m surprised nobody has mentioned Botswana, although hunting on concessions just reopened there in 2021. On my 2021 elephant hunt, I saw some absolutely huge, wide, old bulls. Saw several well over 40 inches but the quota was already filled.