What rifle do you totally trust on dangerous game and what rifle do you mistrust on Dangerous game

[Philip Glass]

I don`t think we`re far apart, but you still wrote "Abuse it in every way imaginable" so you definitely raised my eyebrows and I got very weird pics on my mind... Making sure a DG rifle is 100% reliable under field conditions are quite obvious. I`ve had concerns myself wanting to tap into the power potential of my rifle opting for a hefty charge behind a heavier bullet than normal that in turn would potentially put more strain on the stock, magazine spring etc, so I of course had it professionally assessed. All turned up good tho, and the both of us are still in one piece.

Good deal!

 

[Philip Glass]

@Phill Glass is likely right in his choice of a Kreighoff and an R8 with their non-conventional cocking/safety mechanism. I personally don't like the R8 (even though I have a beautiful one with 3 barrels) because of switching back and forth between it and my beloved Mod 70 type actions that I've used for 60+ yrs could result in a screw up! Most of the PHs I've hunted with are all willing to tell stories of clients who have screwed up with those non-conventional systems, and I've yet to find a PH who doesn't have several. But I will say perceived margarine of safety they offer that could be comforting in the trained hands.
To have a DR and your "bolt" gun have the same battery of arms is the only thing that makes sense.
However, I'll keep using my conventional DR (the battery of arms is like my bird guns) and the Mod 70 systems because they are so deeply trenched in my old brain that it's unlikely I could ever root it out for something new!

Yes PH's all have tons of stories of clients with a new gun making terrible mistakes. There are just as many stories of "fill in the blank rifle" as there are of the inexperienced R8 user messing up.
I know what you are saying about switching back and forth between systems. It is a real concern for many. For me I think the safari prep time at the range with just the rifles I am taking gets me where I need to be.

 

[Philip Glass]

Our friend @Philip Glass is the sage of wisdom gained from experience. While I don’t agree with him about reloading one’s own ammo for dangerous game hunts and quick release scope mounts, I follow his advice on everything else. Problems with the stated areas are always operator error.

In the Marines and most other military services, units “train as they fight”. That adage fits into another, “You go to war with what you have”, meaning trained personnel, highly maintained equipment, and the necessary logistics (beans, bullets, and bandages)! My perception of African hunting, especially for dangerous game, is of a firefight or maybe for others, a bar fight. Short, intense, and bloody. For this. the hunter may well slip into their most basic primal behavior for a few brief seconds when engaging their prey. At least I do. Colonel David Willis, C.O. of the Marine Corps Shooting Teams some 40 years ago referred to this as having “tunnel vision”. Nothing but the target, sight alignment and picture, position, wind, and trigger squeeze.

Aboard ship sailors train, train, and train at their assigned General Quarters stations so that during the time for challenging, for them it the sea challenging, their reactions will be subconsciously automatic. I think firemen do the same. My opinion of sailors increased by ten-fold as I witnessed their training put into action. When shxt hit the fan, they knew their shxt! When facing danger no matter what that may be, our reactions must be perfectly executed actions.

As an handloader of over 50 years, starting at 13 years old, I won’t hunt without my own loads. That stated, running a rifle’s bolt as fast and as hard as I can accurately shoot, often dents the mouth of the cartridge case. But dents be darned, I must train as I will shoot if necessary a second and third shot at some angry critter fast approaching me on constant bearing, decreasing range (CBDR for my Navy friends).

This link is to a private video of me working Hank the bolt hard on a pre-production Montana Rifle Company's TSAVO rifle in .375 H&H. The 5th cartridge didn’t chamber which was exactly why @Imac45acp of MRC let me put that rifle through the paces almost a year ago. I operated the bolt slightly different than would he or his MRC colleagues which identified a problem. Call it an operation test from which the data was analyzed to correct the test article’s deficiency. This won’t be a problem in their soon to be released production rifles!

Notice I had slipped into a phone booth and donned part of my old Superman suit... Oh, to be that young again

Thank you for this video. It illustrates exactly what I have been trying to say. Some DG rifles may be better not fully loaded to ensure smooth feeding in a rapid fire scenario. But what ever the quirk is with your rifle, you must find it at the range not when a leopard is about to eat you!

 

[Rare Breed]

@Philip Glass would certainly know just ask him about his Ruger and one of his leopards!!!

 

[Jim Golden]

@Phill Glass is likely right in his choice of a Kreighoff and an R8 with their non-conventional cocking/safety mechanism. I personally don't like the R8 (even though I have a beautiful one with 3 barrels) because of switching back and forth between it and my beloved Mod 70 type actions that I've used for 60+ yrs could result in a screw up! Most of the PHs I've hunted with are all willing to tell stories of clients who have screwed up with those non-conventional systems, and I've yet to find a PH who doesn't have several. But I will say perceived margarine of safety they offer that could be comforting in the trained hands.
To have a DR and your "bolt" gun have the same battery of arms is the only thing that makes sense.
However, I'll keep using my conventional DR (the battery of arms is like my bird guns) and the Mod 70 systems because they are so deeply trenched in my old brain that it's unlikely I could ever root it out for something new!

I really like the Model 70. I have four of them....two with curly maple stocks that are just gorgeous. Just took a nice buck with my favorite of them all....a .264 Winchester with the curly maple. They don't run far from the .264. I hand load also. Makes these "oddball" calibers fun

 

[dgr416]

My list of never fail include all my tang safety ruger 77s which have been hunted with 40 years no problems .My Weatherby Accumarks went through everything in Alaska for 12 years trusted those 338-378 but I do want one with a 32 inch barrrel to shoot a mile .These rifles never jammed or gave any trouble in the hardest place on earth Alaska.I saw people get river silt in there pistols and rifles and glacial water and ruin custom rifles .I kept mine in super thick cases while in boats 4 wheelers and jeeps and my 79 broncos in transport .I had 5 new gps totally ruin from the river silt up there gave up on them .I have had two control feed rifles fail a ruger 77 stainless mark II and my p1917 ejector blade broke so they are not always fail proof .Any thing can break any time so reallly test your rifle .I had my kimber hunter today hunting and its control feed guess what it jammed big time something is wrong .I always say have a backup rifle just in case .

 

[JeeperCreeper]

To mirror much of the sentiments here, for me I break it down into a few categories.

1. Superstition: like baseball players and their hats/gloves/bats, gotta do what "feels" good because a comfortable mindset is a successful one

2. Experience: what has worked objectively. Logical Experience can be tied closely to Emotional Superstition

3. Engineering "Facts": looking at designs, material science, ballistics, ergonomics/manual of arms, physics, math, etc... CRF vs Push feed... and Lead vs Copper... and Velocity vs Energy, etc etc etc

4. Recommendations: what is popular? What do the pros say? What is the group consensus, if any... And what values does that recommendation come from.

For me, #1 I feel good with a bolt gun and CRF comforts my mind and alleviates doubt. I trust those rifles. #2 I'm used to bolt guns and have lots of experience with them. I am competent with them, knowing I can work them off muscle memory and experienced reliability. #3 CRF with a 3 position safety makes sense in how it operates for me, I think it's superior. I like tough and fast bullets. #4 I think lots of people think Mauser style guns are great for dangerous game and I think the logic behind it is since.

I have not been to Africa yet, but I spend lots of time in Alaska Bear country. I carry magnum cartridges, in Ruger 77 in 338 or Win 70 in 375 respectively with as much copper construction bullets as possible.

I plan on Africa one day, likely a similar set up.