What PH to book an elephant hunt with?

[Mtn_Infantry]

Good Day All

Wish the Op best of luck with his search.Great Outfitters with amazing areas out there and I am sure he will have great hunt.Great info from all on here , thank you.

Just a few points on hunting Elephant in Moz.We do get all the correct export permits for exporting from our area in Mozambique.US Fish and Wildlife won't import them , similar non importable into some European countries .We can legally export to countries like Russia , Mexico and some other countries including South Africa where you can send your tusks to any taxidermy to get replicas made and be stored for you.Good questions about exporting to Zim or Botswana.I will find out. Exportable Moz elephant hunts is not cheap or a cheap hunt and will rival the best Elephants hunts anywhere in Southern Africa in experience and weight of tusks.

Non Exportable elephant hunts are cheaper , but they are few and far between and dependable on a few factors.Non Exportable tusks we have to surrender to the local authorities.

Regards

Rouan

Rouan,

Point of clarification to make sure we’re speaking the same thing.

When forum members say they’re hunting Non Exportable Elephants with you, like what @Mark Biggerstaff did and @Rare Breed is doing are you selling them an Exportable Bull (that won’t be approved for import to the US) or a Non Exportable Elephant permit at the cheaper reduced cost?
If it’s the later, then point about not being able to export the ivory to a country like RSA (potentially Zim or Bots) for reproductions is valid and to get casts made they’d need to be made in Moz (is anyone offering this?) OR the hunter would need to pay for the more expensive exportable permit just to send to RSA for a cast. If they pay more they can hope/pray that if the US changes their stance (they live long enough to see this) it also applies retroactively to sport hunted elephants from before the current import moratorium on Moz Elephants and the operator enhancements from that period are accepted by USFWS. Correct? Since the recommendation that keeps being made is a non exportable hunt in Moz.

Edit: not knocking the non exportable hunts. I’ve hunted one and will hunt/shoot more but if the hunter wanted the ivory/leather like the OP it’s not not the hunt for them and is a cheaper hunt/cheaper Taxidermy solution

 

[TSALA HUNTING SAFARIS]

Great discussion and hope this helps the OP and other.

You are correct, and it is an important distinction.

The bulls Mark hunted and Rare Breed is planning to hunt are non-exportable bulls on non-exportable permits, permits few and not always available , offered at a reduced cost compared with exportable elephant CITES permit. hunts.

The non exportable permits are issued through the relevant local authorities , Chief , Chief de posto and are area-specific. Exportable bulls are hunted under the applicable quota and CITES permits, and we have a much larger area and selection of bulls available for those hunts.Eyedoc shot a very nice 90 pounder last year and the other CITES bull was 60+ pounder.

Having casts made in Mozambique is unfortunately not an option at present. However, we take exact measurements, weights, detailed photographs and video footage of the tusks for non exportable .Very accurate replicas can then be made by a suitable taxidermist anywhere in the world.

I completely understand your point and do not take it as criticism of non-exportable hunts. Some hunters want the experience and opportunity at a large old bull and are happy with replicas, while others specifically want the original ivory and leather.

For the OP’s requirements, Mozambique is most probably not the right option as a few have said. There are excellent outfitters and areas in other countries where elephant ivory and leather can still be legally exported, subject to the applicable regulations.

Question for those who have done it.Can finished Elephant hide products be imported into the US even if you didn't hunt an elephant , like gun cases , belts , shoes ?If bought from a store with invoice?

Regards

Rouan

 

[joker2400]

I hunted with Allen Becker in Botswana and I highly recommend him and he’s reasonably priced,like he told me, he hunts for the passion and not the money and he is a true professional and gentleman. I am out of state at the moment but I think you can find him on WhatsApp.
I also hunted with Tasala, which was very reasonable in price. You can’t bring the ivory home but a lot less cost both in time and money you can have Kanati Studios make replicas. They have a wonderful area in Mozambique

I’m pretty sure the hunt in Bots currently offered on here by Game Trackers is with Allan. Last I knew he had CH2 as his primary trophy hunting block.

 

[Scott CWO]

@mitch4570 another option would be Leon Kachelhoffer of Old Man’s Pans in Botswana NG13. When elephant reopened in 2021, Leon and Mike Fell had a hunter take a 108 pounder. I have two friends that got 60+ pound bulls as well. This area then got embroiled in a two-year court case after some of the money that was paid to the local community disappeared and a local politician and a South African outfitter tried to get the area. That court case is over and Leon has it secured. He also received quota for leopard, buffalo and plains game. His prices for trophy bulls fit your budget and he also has management bull hunts. Both of my friends have received their ivory here in the USA. Leon is backed by a wealthy guy who is also the largest private landowner in Botswana and they have built a new camp, built roads and figured out the logistics to get to this very remote area. I am thinking about going there if I decide to do another Botswana hunt.

 

[Rare Breed]

Good Day All

Wish the Op best of luck with his search.Great Outfitters with amazing areas out there and I am sure he will have great hunt.Great info from all on here , thank you.

Just a few points on hunting Elephant in Moz.We do get all the correct export permits for exporting from our area in Mozambique.US Fish and Wildlife won't import them , similar non importable into some European countries .We can legally export to countries like Russia , Mexico and some other countries including South Africa where you can send your tusks to any taxidermy to get replicas made and be stored for you.Good questions about exporting to Zim or Botswana.I will find out. Exportable Moz elephant hunts is not cheap or a cheap hunt and will rival the best Elephants hunts anywhere in Southern Africa in experience and weight of tusks.

Non Exportable elephant hunts are cheaper , but they are few and far between and dependable on a few factors.Non Exportable tusks we have to surrender to the local authorities.

Regards

Rouan

Thanks so much Rouan! I will be hunting for an elephant in addition to a buff with Tsala in 27. I am depending on and am confident with my camera we can obtain the measurements, weight, shape and colors needed for my fauis tusks to be done anywhere. Please correct me if I am wrong

 

[Rare Breed]

Great discussion and hope this helps the OP and other.

You are correct, and it is an important distinction.

The bulls Mark hunted and Rare Breed is planning to hunt are non-exportable bulls on non-exportable permits, permits few and not always available , offered at a reduced cost compared with exportable elephant CITES permit. hunts.

The non exportable permits are issued through the relevant local authorities , Chief , Chief de posto and are area-specific. Exportable bulls are hunted under the applicable quota and CITES permits, and we have a much larger area and selection of bulls available for those hunts.Eyedoc shot a very nice 90 pounder last year and the other CITES bull was 60+ pounder.

Having casts made in Mozambique is unfortunately not an option at present. However, we take exact measurements, weights, detailed photographs and video footage of the tusks for non exportable .Very accurate replicas can then be made by a suitable taxidermist anywhere in the world.

I completely understand your point and do not take it as criticism of non-exportable hunts. Some hunters want the experience and opportunity at a large old bull and are happy with replicas, while others specifically want the original ivory and leather.

For the OP’s requirements, Mozambique is most probably not the right option as a few have said. There are excellent outfitters and areas in other countries where elephant ivory and leather can still be legally exported, subject to the applicable regulations.

Question for those who have done it.Can finished Elephant hide products be imported into the US even if you didn't hunt an elephant , like gun cases , belts , shoes ?If bought from a store with invoice?

Regards

Rouan

Rouan reply fits my hopes for my hunt. As said earlier, I will depend on measurements, pictures etc so that I can choose anyone anywhere to make my replicas

 

[Rare Breed]

Great discussion!!!!!

 

[Rare Breed]

Greatly appreciate @Mtn_Infantry probing to help all of us gain both insight and understanding!!!!!

 

[Rare Breed]

Super excited to hunt with @TSALA HUNTING SAFARIS in 27 for an elephant and buffalo!!!! They are like family to me!!!

 

[Bill Thom]

I have…two years ago…
I likely will never hunt it again. I enjoyed my hunt. But…there are a lot of humans and infrastructure (the new highways…which on one hand are great but it changed things)
Karl and Ndumo Safaris are top notch… Omuejeve etc etc
BUT…. I don’t think the value is there on elephant. I would Only hunt with Karl 100% for Elephant there (trophy Bull)
But the cost vs trophy quality IMO isnt quite there relative to Western Zim, Botswana, or other places

thanks-

I have…two years ago…
I likely will never hunt it again. I enjoyed my hunt. But…there are a lot of humans and infrastructure (the new highways…which on one hand are great but it changed things)
Karl and Ndumo Safaris are top notch… Omuejeve etc etc
BUT…. I don’t think the value is there on elephant. I would Only hunt with Karl 100% for Elephant there (trophy Bull)
But the cost vs trophy quality IMO isnt quite there relative to Western Zim, Botswana, or other places

thanks- I am getting to the point where I need to be more decisive . Could be time for me to turn "one of these days" into a2027 booking. thanks for the insights. I will look a little closer into western Zim and Botswana. cheers

 

[Safari Dave]

I was hunting buffalo.

But, if Willie Botha were offering elephant hunts in Mozambique, I would absolutely take it.


Legadema Safaris

I saw an 80 lb +. bull while I was there...

But, couldn't hunt it, because I didn't have a permit.

 

[kpoynter]

Mozambique and Non Trophy discussion still alive and well Lol
I’ve hunted Non Trophy myself again to be clear and the only practical reason to do so is money (which again I did)
You guys know what Mitch really needs to do instead of what he asked for advice for that he would be a fool not to do????
He needs to book a Cull Hunt for Giraffe and then go to the Karoo and cull Springbuck and Blesbuck
It’s an incredible deal… I know he doesn’t realize it. Nor did he ask or expressed desire for it even after multiple questions
But…

 

[mitch4570]

Ok I have some e-mails sent to several outfitters. This trip is still 2 years out, have a bear hunt this year and a cape buffalo hunt next year.
I have a question. Hunts for 35 pounder seem more affordable. So after removing the tusks how long are they? I get they differ from elephant to elephant just a rough idea.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

Ok I have some e-mails sent to several outfitters. This trip is still 2 years out, have a bear hunt this year and a cape buffalo hunt next year.
I have a question. Hunts for 35 pounder seem more affordable. So after removing the tusks how long are they? I get they differ from elephant to elephant just a rough idea.

Different countries and regions produce different shapes/types of ivory. In Botswana and Western Zim shorter, thicker, and often broken ivory is more common. In the Zambezi Valley long thin ivory is more common. East Africa typically produces really long/thin ivory.

That’s not to say bulls in the Zambezi Valley or other parts of Africa don’t break their tusks. It’s just like warthogs. Certain areas are less rocky or they’re feeding on different things. They wear differently as well.

You also need to account for size. Ivory starts in the head. The bigger the body/head the higher the chances there’s more ivory hidden behind the lip BUT that’s not a guarantee. There’s a mathematical formula that’s typically pretty accurate +/- about 10% on estimating weight. It has to do with circumference at the lip & tip, as well as length. As you change those inputs you can see how it impacts the overall weight. The biggest unknowns are the length of the nerve, and ivory in the head. It’s common for the broken tusks to have shorter nerves. Think about it like cracking your tooth and the pain of your exposed nerve.

 

[kpoynter]

Ok I have some e-mails sent to several outfitters. This trip is still 2 years out, have a bear hunt this year and a cape buffalo hunt next year.
I have a question. Hunts for 35 pounder seem more affordable. So after removing the tusks how long are they? I get they differ from elephant to elephant just a rough idea.

They are indeed more affordable and as Mt Infantry said below it varies by area and body type and genetics.
Imagine about 2 to 2.5 feet out of the lip depending on diameter and thickness
Also…anywhere that’s say “35#” is just as likely 40#
The next jump is to that 50# class and above
The “budget areas” for this class (and your budget) are the Botswana areas that aren’t the “tier 1” areas.
The Zambezi Valley in Zim… (CMS and D&Y will have options for you there)
These are 40k ish hunts

 

[Huntforever]

I'm 70 but have been walking up to 5 miles with a 12lb rod. I need to hunt an elephant before it's to late. For those of you who have hunted elephant. Who did you book with? How was the terrain, how was the hunt in general? An area that is more flat walking would be better for me.
Thank in advance.

I love that you can still hunt elephants at 70!!! I hope i can do that kind of stuff until 80

 

[rookhawk]

I Don't think you can currenty export trophies from Mozambique to U.S.

I’ve had good success with Vaughan Whitehead Wilson in Zimbabwe. Mapassa Big Game Safaris. He doesn’t advertise much, only word of mouth. He does open his books and prove his sources and uses of funds, a requirement amongst many more to get a USFWS import permit for the ivory. 100% import approval thus far for me on the newer, stricter rules.

Other members have used Vaughan as well if you want to check references.

The terrain is varied from fairly flat Jesse and acacia to somewhat rolling hills depending on where the hunt occurs. Elephant is about walking slow and steady to win the race.

 

[375Fox]

I’ve had good success with Vaughan Whitehead Wilson in Zimbabwe. Mapassa Big Game Safaris. He doesn’t advertise much, only word of mouth. He does open his books and prove his sources and uses of funds, a requirement amongst many more to get a USFWS import permit for the ivory. 100% import approval thus far for me on the newer, stricter rules.

Other members have used Vaughan as well if you want to check references.

The terrain is varied from fairly flat Jesse and acacia to somewhat rolling hills depending on where the hunt occurs. Elephant is about walking slow and steady to win the race.

If you speak to conservation force or adventure permits, Zimbabwe is nearly 100% approvals at moment from all outfitters. It has been that way several years.

 

[Flipper Dude]

Ok I have some e-mails sent to several outfitters. This trip is still 2 years out, have a bear hunt this year and a cape buffalo hunt next year.
I have a question. Hunts for 35 pounder seem more affordable. So after removing the tusks how long are they? I get they differ from elephant to elephant just a rough idea.

Just to give you an idea The unbroken tusk is just over 58” and 27 pounds. So right at 5 feet long. Management bull / cull bull. Whatever ya call it.

 

[rookhawk]

If you speak to conservation force or adventure permits, Zimbabwe is nearly 100% approvals at moment from all outfitters. It has been that way several years.

Conservation Force is an astute team of lawyers and they charge handsomely for their services. Their intake service requires the documentation of how many poachers were arrested/prosecuted, snares confiscated, game counts for the last three years for DG and PG, community reinvestment, and ultimately how the death of the particular elephant enhances the survival of the species.

With the above info and representation, you’ll probably get that information. WITH THE ABOVE INFO.

What happens when someone books a CITES exportable hunt with an operator that just acquired/scoundreled a concession from another operator? What happens if they don’t have the stats? What happens if they didn’t do the community reinvestment.

Caveat emptor. Just because it’s exportable, doesn’t mean it’s USFWS importable. People hiring Conservation Force understand the data collection requirements and self-select for operators that have the supporting data to make it a viable application.