What is this thing? Guess that action type

Discussion in 'Firearms & Ammunition' started by rookhawk, Jun 26, 2020.

  1. rookhawk

    rookhawk AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    I hate being ignorant. I'm usually not stumped for long with firearms, always a tell-tale sign of what it is.

    Not today. This is a best gun made by a virtually unknown gunsmith named Carl Joseph Roth, Jr. of Sheridan and Cheyenne, Wyoming. He died in 2019. One other example in the belly of google search is known, but it was an FN supreme Mauser and this one is absolutely not a Mauser.

    So what is it? Here's what I can tell you. It has a mid-century style stock in exhibition black walnut and maple. It is beautifully jeweled. It has a three-lug locking bolt and it cocks on opening. The bolt shroud is smooth and has no apparatus on it. The safety is part of the trigger guard and a high-quality fire control group is sealed in a unit affixed to the bottom metal. It has a milled bottom metal of high quality and the bottom metal is affixed with three screws similar to a Mauser 98 or a Pre-64 Winchester. Oh, it's in 7x61 Sharpe & Hart as far as caliber is concerned. So standard long action.

    A friend of mine asked me why it doesn't fire (it does) so I'm assuming a good cleaning and a new firing pin spring will eliminate any issues other than bad ammo from that scenario. However, If I can't find out what it is, I can't figure out what spring my friend needs to buy.

    Guesses welcome and appreciated!:

    IMG_2592.JPG IMG_2593.JPG IMG_2594.JPG IMG_2595.JPG
     
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  2. rookhawk

    rookhawk AH ENABLER AH Legend

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  3. Standard Velocity

    Standard Velocity AH Enthusiast

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    Strange that it has a crossbolt safety in front of the trigger. Don’t know that I’ve ever seen that. Also looks like a trigger group screw has been boogered. Maybe a shade tree gunsmith has had a go at it.

    Do you have a profile picture of the bolt head? Is the bolt release a leaver or button or simply done by pulling the trigger?

    Are those Buehler scope mounts? Won’t help identify rifle but I do like them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
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  4. 318AE

    318AE AH Member

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    Some parts of it look similar to a Voere Titan. I’m not an expert on Voere. Some of those were converted to a Kleinguenther.
     

  5. Alistair

    Alistair AH Enthusiast

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    It looks vaguely germanic to my eyes?

    Sauer perhaps?

    Al
     

  6. helibok

    helibok AH Member

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  7. Dirtdart

    Dirtdart SILVER SUPPORTER AH Enthusiast

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    My first guess is a Texas Magnum by Ranger Arms Inc.
     
    rookhawk, BobT and bruce moulds like this.

  8. BobT

    BobT AH Fanatic

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    I would say your first guess is pretty well on the mark, that's what it looks like to me also. The bottom metal is pretty unique.
     
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  9. rookhawk

    rookhawk AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    @Dirtdart and @BobT are the winners! Congratulations, you know more about this gun than about 20 people I contacted including some well known rifle authors and some of the top gunsmiths in the nation!

    Indeed, a Ranger Arms "Senator Grade" from the 1970s made in Gainsville, TX.

    For what its worth, everything about the gun is absolute quality. Not my style, but it looks like California Claro walnut, impeccable jeweling, curly maple grip caps, high luster plum bluing. Great integrated trigger group tuned to perfection. I was just really impressed with the gun.
     

  10. rookhawk

    rookhawk AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    2FE45CB1-3E97-4DCC-BC32-E227BF54C3CB.jpeg 0E1FFA2C-8299-4A89-9FE5-E8A7C55411E1.jpeg Just to close the loop on this gun, I thought you might like to see the stock for the gun.

    a friend brought it by to give a good cleaning and to have a look at the stock. The stock had burns in the wood like it was set next to a radiator, leaving damage similar to putting out a cigarette on a wood dining room table.

    I thought the wood deserved a proper resurrection so I carded down some of the scratches and scuffs. Then, I coaxed the burn marks out in a half-ass way using 0000 bronze wool. I know, that’s not the right way, but I didn’t want to remove the stain pigment and I didn’t want to dedicate 60 days to laying up oil from scratch and being forced to recut skip-line checkering.

    Here it is with final finish applied. Tomorrow night I’ll spend a few hours with wax paste polishing out any of my flaws in my oil Finish process.
     
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  11. AZDAVE

    AZDAVE AH Elite

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    Very interesting rifle. The 3 lug action is not seen that often on a mauser style action. and I find the trigger group/saftey different but I am sure it is effective.
     

  12. rookhawk

    rookhawk AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    Just an opinion and a favorable one considering its me as the source and I'm endorsing a gun that is the antithesis of all styles that I personally like in rifles.

    I think this maker of custom guns, Ranger Arms, is an ideal collectible and functional firearm. They were obscenely expensive and spared no expense on any part of their construction. Their values are quite low, making them an absolute bargain. (exceptional best grade examples sell for $700-$1400). They are quite rare, they only made 4000 guns in the life of the company. If someone is of middle-class income and is contemplating collecting a brand of gun, rather than Ruger #1s (infinite amounts exist) or savage, or rem 700s, or post-64 Winchesters, someone could collect an obscure and rare maker that built a gun that was 10x the quality and original cost for the same money as mass-produced guns.

    This gun is WAY higher quality than a post-Mauser action top-grade Weatherby and is worth a fraction of the money at present. I think they may be good investments. If they aren't good investments, they are still the finest hunting rifle of this style you could possibly own for the price.

    *Disclaimers: I don't own one of these guns and their styling is not to my tastes. Nonetheless, the above is my praise for this maker.
     

  13. Nhoro

    Nhoro AH Veteran

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    I am interested to se the gunstock hanging out in the sun. I assume that is part of your drying ? Just interesting-I put mine in on the windowsill. I know from my chemistry background that sunlight radiation helps polymerise the drying oils-Boiled linseed, Trueoil etc. i assume that is what you are doing here?

    I like that sleek looking action-the stock has beautiful wood but that shape is a bit too Star trek for me !
     

  14. rookhawk

    rookhawk AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    yes, I was just accelerating the hardening so I could apply another coat quicker.
     

  15. Graham Hunter

    Graham Hunter AH Fanatic

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    I believe that is a Harry P Lawson Cochise thumbhole out of Arizona.
     

  16. rookhawk

    rookhawk AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    Could be. I saw on an Internet forum a fellow writing that stated he was the stocker for all the high-quality guns of Ranger Arms in Gainsville, Texas from 1968 through the mid-70s. Unfortunately, I didn't glean his name from whatever his username was on that forum.

    He did exceptional work. "Blind" Glass bedded too. No sign of bedding on any exterior point of the stock. You have to disassemble to notice the perfect bedding job.
     

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