What is a proper "stopping rifle" and load for dangerous game?

[Roller]

Should the caliber start with a "4" or is a 375 enough gun? What about a 375 with solids? Or a 338 magnum with 250 grain solids or monolithic bullets for that matter? Double rifle or magazine fed? Will a shot that doesn't penetrate into the brain or spine still "turn" a charging animal? Will a shot with a 30 caliber that does penetrate the brain or spine still "stop" the charge? Open question, but particularly interested in buffalo.

 

[mdwest]

Are you specifically talking African DG?

A brown bear or a mountain lion are really a completely different equation than an elephant or a buffalo...

And while I’ve never hunted lion or leopard, I think most of our experienced PH’s will tell you what’s right as a stopping rifle for a leopard is very different than what they take as a stopping rifle on an elephant hunt...

For the big nastys in Africa, my guess is the experienced PH crowd is going to say stopping rifles start around 470 NE and go up from there...

Most brown bear guides I know carry 338’s or .375’s or 45-70’s and believe them to be more than enough to be “stopping” rifles for that animal

 

[TMS]

You have asked several questions:

375 is enough gun, but if you have 458 or 416 even better.

For your first shot on buffalo, soft is preferred, but for back up especially charging shots, solid is best.

a brain shot will stop a buffalo instantly. I have shot a buffalo spine right off, he still had enough go to run me over, dropped 30 yards later.
Yes 338 can do the job but definitely not the right choice.

I think you need to understand things go wrong very quickly in the bush, don’t try overthink the situation.

I have had far better success with clients shooting bolt action rifles. I have never had more than 3 rounds in my magazine, if you need more than 3 shots, you already in deep crap.

 

[IvW]

Should the caliber start with a "4" or is a 375 enough gun? What about a 375 with solids? Or a 338 magnum with 250 grain solids or monolithic bullets for that matter? Double rifle or magazine fed? Will a shot that doesn't penetrate into the brain or spine still "turn" a charging animal? Will a shot with a 30 caliber that does penetrate the brain or spine still "stop" the charge? Open question, but particularly interested in buffalo.

A proper stopping rifle for a client is the one that is of legal caliber for the animal hunted with a proper bullet. After that it is proper placement of that first shot nothing more and nothing less.

For Cape buffalo a 375 is not regarded as a "stopping rifle", a 338 mag would not be legal. Solids particularly in the 375 H&H are not a good idea for Cape buffalo.

Buffalo unlike elephant are not easy to turn once they have started a charge you best drop him or face the consequences.

30 Caliber bullet that penetrates the brain or spine will stop the charge but only a uneducated fool would choose to use one on Cape Buffalo as a "stopping rifle"..

If you can shoot it equally well anything that starts with a"4" would be better than a 375.

Double or magazine? Personal choice, if you are the visiting hunter make sure you get a lot of practice, very few clients with double rifles I have guided where competent with them.(Meaning shoot it accurately, be able to take the quick second shot and oh boy....reloading it....)

Scoped bolt action is a better choice for accurate first shot placement, when using a double you may well have to pass up on shots you could have taken if using a scoped bolt action...

Unless you are the PH rather concentrate on premium grade bullets and first shot placement and less on stopping a charge, if you do the first part there will not be a charge to contend with and everyone walks away to hunt another day.....

 

[TMS]

IvW, I have to strongly disagree with you about solids in 375 on a buffalo charge.

You also say proper stopping rifle is anything legal for the animal, but then you say 375 isn’t regarded as a stopper rifle????

When it comes to charges by elephant and buffalo, if wounded elephant like a buffalo is not going to turn. Don’t confuse mock charge with a real charge

 

[JLF]

Minimum one .470 NE

 

[IvW]

IvW, I have to strongly disagree with you about solids in 375 on a buffalo charge.

You can. Is that what you use for stopping buffalo charges? 375 loaded with solids?

You also say proper stopping rifle is anything legal for the animal, but then you say 375 isn’t regarded as a stopper rifle????

For the client 375 is fine and yes totally correct 375 H&H is definitely not regarded as a good caliber to use as a stopper rifle for buffalo or elephant...

When it comes to charges by elephant and buffalo, if wounded elephant like a buffalo is not going to turn. Don’t confuse mock charge with a real charge

Who mentioned only wounded? Elephant quite often turn when shot frontal, wounded or un wounded. Buffalo 99 percent of the time never turn once they charge.

I am not confused with charge or mock charge.

 

[Red Leg]

IvW, I have to strongly disagree with you about solids in 375 on a buffalo charge.

You also say proper stopping rifle is anything legal for the animal, but then you say 375 isn’t regarded as a stopper rifle????

When it comes to charges by elephant and buffalo, if wounded elephant like a buffalo is not going to turn. Don’t confuse mock charge with a real charge

Forty years ago, you would be absolutely correct, and many PH's and experienced hunters obviously still think that way. It clearly isn't wrong - but it isn't absolutely correct these days either.

I would personally much prefer a premium SP for a charging buffalo if fired from a .375 or .416 class .40 cal. Through the snout it will easily reach the brain and provide a few mm's more wound channel and foot pounds of energy. Either might prove the difference in shutting him down. If a high chest shot, it offers the same margin of difference with respect to spine damage.

Mid or low chest, he will probably reach you - but he likely would with a solid in the same spot regardless of caliber. Again, I would rather do more damage to the plumbing than not.

 

[TMS]

I feel 100% safe whether I am carrying 375, 458wm or 416 rigby with solids on a buffalo charge. And that would also apply to elephants, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a 375.

 

[flatwater bill]

The most famous Troll was probably Grendel, from Norse Mythology.
The word now applies to more than 6.5's, Ford Fenders, and bridges.
Trolling questions show people often fit into one of two camps.
Grassy Knoll or Book Store window?
John or Paul?
Piper or Cessna?
and now,
375's or Big Bores?
To what end I don't know, but it's Covid time, so why not?......FWB
and BTW....it's Paul.

 

[Red Leg]

I feel 100% safe whether I am carrying 375, 458wm or 416 rigby with solids on a buffalo charge. And that would also apply to elephants, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a 375.

I am talking purely buffalo or a cat. For an elephant, only a solid will reach the brain in a frontal charge.

 

[IvW]

I feel 100% safe whether I am carrying 375, 458wm or 416 rigby with solids on a buffalo charge. And that would also apply to elephants, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a 375.

I own two 375 H&H rifles, greatest caliber ever invented, but neither are my Elephant or Cape buffalo sort the problem out rifles for that I use a 500 Jeff.

Maybe I have small balls or I just don't shoot straight enough.....or you have stopped a hell of a lot more than me.....but the 375 is a bit small when the range is close and and you have one shot to sort it out...especially on elephant...

 

[TMS]

I wouldn’t have a clue how many you have stopped? 15 seasons of mainly hunting dangerous game in Mozambique, I do have enough experience to make an accurate decision on rifles and bullets. I have never had one of my phs carry anything bigger than 470NE. We hunted more elephants than any company in Mozambique before they closed elephant hunting, again I would feel comfortable with a 375. Sorry no experience on ball sizes.

 

[IvW]

Glad it has worked so well. I also love my 375's and they are my most used rifles but personally I prefer something bigger.

 

[Roller]

The most famous Troll was probably Grendel, from Norse Mythology.
The word now applies to more than 6.5's, Ford Fenders, and bridges.
Trolling questions show people often fit into one of two camps.
Grassy Knoll or Book Store window?
John or Paul?
Piper or Cessna?
and now,
375's or Big Bores?
To what end I don't know, but it's Covid time, so why not?......FWB
and BTW....it's Paul.

To the end that it is a relevant question to one planning a buffalo hunt (as I am). From the responses so far it would appear to be a debatable and hence, an interesting question. I have blown the lungs out of a whitetail and watched it run 30 yards. I also had a PH in South Africa tell me that a 400+ caliber would "turn"a buffalo even if you hit it on the boss. I'm interested in opinions of folks that have real experience in this matter. Perhaps some other folks will find it of value as well. But yes, it's COVID time and I was supposed to hunting again in Namibia last month, so why not indeed?

 

[spike.t]

I know a few ph who used 375 as their rifle when it was basically a choice between it and the 458 win mag...and they were hunting in zim and Tanzania and Zambia and everything including elephants....most I know moved up to the 416 Remington when it came out ..but quite a few have now moved on to 470 or 500 ne doubles as chances of walking into a snared , or poacher wounded dg animal especially buff has increased a lot in recent years ...one zim one I know still swears by his 375 and says you dont need anything else.....

 

[TMS]

375 solid , dropped charge instantly.

 

[Scott CWO]

375 solid , dropped charge instantly.

View attachment 365337

Even a .30 cal with that shot placement would likely stop the charge but in the heat of the moment with all kinds of different angles and distances involved, people often miss the center of the head or instinctively react by shooting for center mass instead. In any case in very close quarters, I would rather have a .458 Lott or another .40 to .50 caliber cartridge as a true stopper. I wouldn't hesitate to use a .375 as a hunter for a buffalo or lion or brown bear hunt but that wasn't the question. I think a PH has a responsibility to be a bit over-gunned for problems than can arise. That's why I use my Lott for a brown bear stopper. And in case any of you think a cape buffalo is more dangerous than a brown bear, I would remind you that a wounded bear can charge at 35 mph AND chew on you with big teeth AND tear at you with claws. Brown bears are thicker skinned and larger bodied than a lion and almost as fast.

 

[Scott CWO]

39" buffalo I dropped head on with one shot under the chin with .458 Lott at 10 yards in high grass in Niassa Reserve in Mozambique with the late Jamie Wilson. The buffalo had a damaged swollen scrotum (ouch) and claw marks on rear legs, likely from a failed lion attack.

 

[Newboomer]

Haven't faced a buf charge but I did take mine at 30 yards with a 375HH and Barnes 350 gr TSX head on. He turned and ran about 70 yards and we found him dead, not even a death bellow. Looked like the slug went clear through him stem to stern.