What do you expect from a camp gun?

Discussion in 'Firearms & Ammunition' started by Mauser78, Jul 25, 2019.

  1. Mauser78

    Mauser78 AH Senior Member

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    Good day.

    Just wondering, what is expected from a rental gun and ammo?
    Type of gun? Make?
    Calibers?
    Glass?
    Ammo?

    If you rent a gun and ammo, and wound an animal, would you somehow blame equipment or ammo?
     
    Philip Glass likes this.

  2. mark-hunter

    mark-hunter AH Fanatic

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    The rifle is tested, first day when hunter arrives in camp.
    Once the test is done, the rifle is accepted as good one. If there is problem with camp rifle, this is the moment for hunter to speak up, and possibly take another one.

    The responsibility works two ways:
    - Lets say, hunter wounds the animal, puts blame on rifle? (hmmm, after initial test, very hard to pull that off, and very ungentlemanly... ) And then there are clients and clients - those who can shoot, and those who cannot shoot with any rifle...

    In my opinion, wounding is moral, legal, and financial responsibility of the hunter. He should be able to handle a rifle, or not hunt at all. If he wounds, he has to pay.

    - In different responsibility angle: hunter drops the rifle (by accident), breaks the stock, or good optics? Who pays the damage?

    In my opinion, this is operational risk, taken by owner of rifle (outfitter).
    Of course, speaking in good faith that hunter using the rifle is reasonable good rifleman, hunter, and handles the rifle with reasonable good care.

    In conclusion, responsible solution to both problems, actually is question of ethics and courtesy, really.

    In two hunts of my experience, i have seen in camps several calibers: 30-06, 375 HH, 300 HH, 300 wm, 223 rem... bolt actions. My guess, final choice of caliber by outfitter is made by availability of ammo in local shops.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2019

  3. cagkt3

    cagkt3 AH ENABLER PLATINUM SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Simple - If you are planning on using the outfitter's rifle, ask them what's available. You will know exactly what to expect.

    From what I've seen and read, it can vary quite a bit. Some outfitters have perfectly serviceable rifles (think entry level rifle and Nikon glass), and others have rifles that I would love to have in my gun safe (Sako or CZ with Zeiss/Swaro optics).

    I'm sure some of the more experience hunters will chime in, as I've only been over a few times and took my own rifles.
     

  4. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    I think the answer to your question is going to be a mixed bag. Depending on the outfitter and or PH the gun will be in proper working order or not. AH members place a lot of emphasis on the use of premium bullets, but from my limited use of "camp" guns only the cheap stuff is available. When Delta failed to put my rifles on the same plane I was, I wound up using a camp rifle that couldn't hit a bull in the a** with a base fiddle. My first shots were way high, scope adjustments made and a small pattern established. After bouncing around in the bakie for a little bit I made a shot on an animal that was dead on for elevation but about 6" to the right. The next guy to use that rifle was another AH member. His shots were a foot low. The PH brought out another gun for him to use. But to answer your question, I'd want a Mauser Action, with either a Nikon, Leupold or better scope and premium Ammo. Caliber would have to be commensurate for the game being hunted neither too large or too small.
     
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  5. Mauser78

    Mauser78 AH Senior Member

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    I do know what they have, but what does a client prefer? Is a new howa with Nikon scope fine, or do you expext top class? Will Remington Core loct be fine or do you want Barnes Vortex? Will you trust his hand loads if he gives you Peregrine, Rhino, Claw or Stewards bullets that you might not know?
     
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  6. cagkt3

    cagkt3 AH ENABLER PLATINUM SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Ah, ok I see what you're getting at now. I expect you'll get quite a wide variety of answers, but here goes mine.

    Howa with Nikon scope is fine, as long as it is a good serviceable rifle (i.e. I don't have to jimmy the bolt a certain way when working it, or only load 2 rounds because it sticks if you load 3, etc) that can shoot decent groups with the ammo provided. I would love to hunt with a nice Rigby Highland Stalker, but I'm not going to be too picky. I'm there to hunt and I don't get to take the rifle home with me.

    As far as ammo, I'd be good with any premium soft or mono for PG. I guess I wouldn't mind shooting handloads as long as I asked lots of questions of the PH and felt like he knew what he was doing. DG might be a different story.
     
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  7. Art Lambart II

    Art Lambart II AH Fanatic

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    I have been to Africa twice and both times Delta left my guns in ATL. Because of this one of my standard questions for outfitters is what do you have for camp guns and what type of ammo do you provide. Once you have selected an outfitter you need to tell him what calibers you are comfortable using so you don't end up with something to large for you to handle. As for ammo don't be surprised if you get PMP for PG and Hornady for DG, once again you need to ask your outfitter that they are providing. On my first safari I bought 2 boxes of 300 grn NP in 375 H&H from Safari Outdoors in Jobourgh and it cost me $350 US so if you want premium ammo you my have to pay for it.
     

  8. Witold Krzyżanowski

    Witold Krzyżanowski AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    I thing that evryone should hunt with his rifle.
     

  9. BeeMaa

    BeeMaa AH Elite

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    In a perfect world...yes, but as most of us know luggage handlers are not perfect.

    I asked ahead of time to make sure there was a 375H&H available for me to use if mine didn't show up but my ammo did.
    I didn't care so much about the brand/action/scope so much as does it go bang and shoot accurately.

    My rifle did arrive in good condition, but it was comforting to know there was a back-up plan.
     

  10. Newboomer

    Newboomer GOLD SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    I have a problem with camp rifles because the stocks are way too long. I have mine cut to 12 3/4 ". I've tried camp guns and they are a pain trying to stretch my short neck to see through the scope and short arms to reach the trigger. Ammo can be suspect, too. I like my own manufacture from my home factory. My rifle, my ammo. That way I know what I've got and what it will do.
     

  11. Von S.

    Von S. AH Fanatic

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    Squire 78,

    "IF" i had to use a camp rifle I would be pleased with a Howa topped with a Nikon....... though the pin that holds the bolt stop could be bigger.

    I feel bad for our friends like Art Lambert and Shootist 43 for getting stuck with "tomato stakes" because their guns didnt arive with them. I do not feel bad at all for anyone who leaves their fancy safe queen at home to remain "safe" and use something that a pig wouldn`t use to scratch it's ass with.

    As far as ammo goes I firmly believe that way too much is being put into the thought that if you are not using some extremely expensive bullets for "everything" in africa you are most assuridly doomed to failure and days of tracking animals that you will pay for, but never see again.

    Take your time, pick your shot, hit your target and forget about dropping game with a "texas heart shot" on an animal that is running so fast that you couldn ' catch with a vette and things will be fine.
     
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  12. wesheltonj

    wesheltonj AH Elite

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    Where I hunted at the camp gun was a Browning 300 WM, with a Leica Magnus scope. Now the camp gun is an Blaser R8 with a Leica Magnus scope.

    It one time one of the outfitters here, their camp gun was a Rigby, but not sure what brand of scope.

    With those, I would leave my SAKO at home. Not worth the hassle, when you can shoot those firearms. Might bring a box of Norma ammo with me, to make sure that I was not shooting crap out of the end of a fine firearm.
     

  13. gillettehunter

    gillettehunter AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    On my first trip to Africa my rifle didn't arrive until the AM of the 4th day of a 7 day hunt. I borrowed my PH's rifle. I think it was a Ruger. My trigger on my Tikka was set at about 1 1/2 lbs. His was closer to 6 or more. I got a couple of animals with his rifle, but my shooting wasn't stellar. It improved significantly when my rifle arrived....
    In my mind a decent camp gun has a good trigger and is suited for the job. Ammo is another point mentioned. I have had bullets blow up on impact on a shoulder. 2 different calibers with different bullets. If I wound an animal as the result of poor bullet performance then I'm not so sure that the trophy fee should be my responsibility for a lost animal.
    A Howa with a good scope is just fine. As long as the trigger isn't set over 3 lbs. No need to be heavier IMHO.
    Bruce
     

  14. CAustin

    CAustin AH ENABLER BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Ambassador

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    Junk is junk and you can’t shine it up enough to make it shoot straight and true.
    So to the OP what any of us would expect is that the rifle be in good working order and shoot straight!
     

  15. mdwest

    mdwest AH Elite

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    I used a camp CZ 550 in 375 topped with a Lynx optic and a Musgrave 7x57 topped with a Swaro optic.. as well as a musgrave .243 topped with swaro.. on my most recent safari...

    All rifles and optics were in excellent shape and performed flawlessly...
     
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  16. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    I bring my rifles to Africa, but use “camp guns” in South America and Europe where I travel with my lovely bride and playing armed tourist before or after the hunt can be tricky.

    In Spain and Argentina, I have used Browning’s or Ruger’s with Leica optics. I have looked at a lot of camp guns in Africa. They ranged from Kimber Caprivi’s with Jamy Traut to less exalted with others. Most shoot. The real issue is often the ammunition.

    As others have suggested - ask questions.
     
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  17. Mekaniks

    Mekaniks GOLD SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    I have rented a "camp gun" twice (two trips) in Hawaii. Mostly because bringing my own into Hawaii for a one day hunt while on a ten vacation is a PITA. Both times the rifle was in excellent condition, shot perfect and did what it was supposed to do.
    When I went to SA I took my rifle but my son used the PH's rifle. I learned then that the folks in SA are not allowed lots of extra firearms like we are in the States. So if you are renting a rifle in SA it is very likely one of the PH's personal rifles that he uses regularly, not just a "camp loaner". My son used the rifle and it all worked out great.
    My suggestion is that if you are expecting to rent a rifle, communicate with your ph or outfitter before you get there. You don't want to rent a Dodge Dart if you really need an F-350......
     

  18. Philip Glass

    Philip Glass AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    As much as the hunt costs I would ask the outfitter what guns he has for me to use. Many have very nice guns in my experience but you must talk it over beforehand. My recommendation, as always, is use a gun savvy travel agent and take your own guns!
    Philip
     
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  19. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Elite

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    a polished turd is still a turd.
    except when it is not a turd.
    bruce.
     
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  20. CBH Australia

    CBH Australia AH Enthusiast

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    My PH Has offered me the use of. Sako with A Swarovski for a small fee.
    Happy with that and being my first guided hunt I am keeping it simple
     

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