Discussion in 'Hunting Pictures' started by AfricaHunting.com, Apr 27, 2011.
I agree with you they also want your friends to come and hunt with them
Not on the subject of disrespect but content censorship: Google disables AdSense on AfricaHunting.com for violent or disturbing content http://www.africahunting.com/thread...g-com-for-violent-or-disturbing-content.9742/.
I agree with most of the opinions I have read in this thread, but then again AH seems to have an above average level of intelligence in it's members than most forums do. I try to clean up my animals as best I can for a picture, if I am 10 miles behind a road closure with a bull on the ground, I am not going to waste the last of my drinking water to clean up blood in order to appease some idiot that can't grasp the fact that blood flows freely from the mouth after a projectile passes through your respiratory system. It is just a fact of life and death, short of giving up the rifle and bow and strangling everything with piano wire there will be blood.
I believe a picture submitted for publication should be tasteful, but then again I don't know how many times I have walked by a magazine rack and there is a picture of Hillery, Obama or Pelosi on the cover of the magazine, this offends the hell out of me, often times it has ruined my lunch!
I don't agree with the guy that critics a picture that is not his ideal pose, once I read something about a guy taking a hero shot because he had sunglasses on. I wear sunglasses 90% of the time and they are on in most pictures of myself, weather I am holding a 370 bull or had my arm around my grandmother. If everyone would go back to minding their own business and putting the effort that they expend bitching about what the other guy is doing into something actually productive we could get this country heading back in the right direction again. But until then I will stand by, being politically incorrect and not really giving a damn what anybody really thinks as long as I find it personally morally acceptable in my own mind.
P.S. Disregard the morally acceptable thing when under the influence of fine Canadian Whisky. I take no responsibility for myself at that point.lol
If you are going to die of thirst (lack of water or fine spirits) there are also some pretty basic moves on a computer that can rid the pictures of anything truly offensive.
Indeed, fine work you did on the kudu horn shadow in the contest photo, far beyond my mouse wrangling skills.
As much as I love hunting, I always feel a tinge of sadness when I down an animal regardless of the weapon I used, the trophy quality or the difficulty or how hard and persistently I hunted, whether with other hunting companions, guided or solo. I appreciate clean trophy photographs and I find having a foot on a downed animal, kicking it if I see it, straddling as in riding... except for exposing a head, horns or a paw for a photograph or during the skinning process, but standing on top for the photo...quite offensive. If it is a reflection of a different time where awareness and respect for animals were less emphasized and we all were less educated, it's far more acceptable. In today's world I would find several of these photographs very much lacking in taste, proper decorum and showing no understanding of respect for animals. I understand the elation of downing a large dangerous animal or any animal, I always experience it even if mixed with sadness but it shouldn't supersede proper countenance after the kill. No one can be entirely detached and call themselves a hunter. They may as well stay home.
I have not entered trophy animals that made the books, particularly Pope & Young because of mistreatment of stock I observed by those who guided me, either poorly treated hounds or horses, mules, pack animals. (I'm referring to neglect, not just a moment of lapse) I may be old school or be too inflexible when it comes to this but I am extremely strict and try to discipline myself in how a hunt should be conducted and culminate for the hunter. Elation, but with self control, at least for the trophy photograph, and during the pursuit, no passion, no hate or sense of getting even, even for varmints and pests. Just focused, enthusiastic effort with a purpose.
The very vast majority of photographs on this site coincide with what I consider very good taste in capturing the hunt and reflect the awareness I mention above. The old photographs of a by gone era are another story But everything evolves and we can't blame those who preceded us, of whom many were true courageous pioneers. All we can do is be more aware. Please don't straddle my dinosaur, it's bad form.
The old black and white photos where hunter uses hunted game as foot rest, or a rest for his hat, or sits on dead animal for modern standard are disrespectful. Especially for ethical standards of some other hunting communities.
However those pictures are made at some point in history and should be seen in that time frame, from that point of view and in the context of that time.
Thus - they are acceptable.
Today modern trophy photos are done differently. Usually in a way that animal is properly positioned, blood and wound discretely covered in order not to show any suffering of the animal. Hunter should be positioned behind animal (not in front, or on the top), it can be done with hat on the hunters head, but even better with a hat off, so hunters face may be recognized and it also shoes more respect to the game
Some hunting organization will have their ethical standards and rules how the photo must be done and presented. It may differ from case to case.
However we live in modern mass media time, and there are more bigger considerations then photos to be done in line of specific organizational code of ethics from one hunting community or organization to another
Unfortunately, the life is not perfect.
And the question is to publicly post the photo or not, possibly reconsider this issue and maybe take different approach.
If we take for example the public arguments of anti hunting groups, basically they have two basic arguments:
1. They act on emotional side of non educated average population, by claiming that hunting is cruel, inhumane, and leads to extinction of various species.
2. in order to support their claims of hunting not being humane and destructive, they use hunting photos, generally (and generously) posted in various mass media by hunters themselves, or their organizations.
Taking photos with trophy after the hunt, for us, the hunters, is way of making that moment a permanent and visible memory, and a way of making our trophy immortal. Practically a noble gesture.
However, not all see that in this way. And then trophy photo frequently is used against us.
In my view, in the long run, if we remove (all) the photos of hunters with trophies from public media, and social networks, then anti hunting groups and organization will have no further argument.
Then the public debate will remain only on solid and scientific arguments, real facts and this is our strong point
At that moment, if internally as hunting community we ban public posting of trophy photos through opur organisations, pro hunting groups will step in territory of "political correctness' and PR, but that is how it is.
PC and PR today are reality.
There are many examples of abusing the hunters photo with trophy in modern times of internet:
Cecil the Lion, and mr Palmer in mass media abused to the maximum, then Canadian huntress Jacine Jadresko, etc, etc... examples are endless
I know for fact that some hunting clubs in my area are banning taking the photos with trophies after the hunt to their members. And this is the reason.
In European gun and hunting shows, rifle makers avoid playing their video presentation videos with explicit hunting scenes showing shot or wounded game.
This is the reason.
Times change, and it already started.
Also, if a public person was in the media spotlight for any (aledged) wrongdoing, eventual publicly published hunting photos of that person was usually used against him, as a evidence of unacceptable character.
That is the reality.
we loose many points on this issue. I see it as a fact.
I am not saying I am right, but I am saying we might take a different perspective and reconsider the public photography issue and use.
But in any case, if photo with game is ever posted publicly, it must be posted inside accepted ethical standard of respective hunting organization, otherwise the effect may get adverse. It already gets.
The antis will use a perfectly taken hunting photo as their platform to criticize anyway. It doesn't even have to be one that today may be considered in bad taste.
Any and every hunting photo gets strong criticism from antis. I agree with what you're saying. I was writing strictly for the hunting community. Meanwhile, I concur with you that it doesn't hurt to be very mindful in taking photos we can stand behind showing some respect and ethical standards regardless of what others may think. They are photos of dead animals, not much else can be done but being aware when taking these images because everything gets so exposed nowadays.
I personally feel that the vast majority of the photographs on this site reflect as much as possible the standards you and I are referring to.
What other consider normal, may not be what I considere tasteful. My opinion might be slightly different than what I prefer to see on the subject of of photographing my trophies. As mentioned already in this thread, Africa Hunt Forums is head, neck, and shoulders above most other forums. I've not seen anything on this forum that I didn't care for. Nothing that I thought was particularly distasteful. I'll even go as far to say that the forum sponsors and supporters do a very, very good job with the trophy photos that are loaded on their web pages. This is something that can't be said for many other forums site sponsors.
Yes, I understand it's hard to clean up some animals after a kill. But in preserving the memories of the hunt, I like to do what is possible to take a proper picture. I've got a few pictures that I wish I'd spent more time prepping the trophy. It looked fine to me at the time, but now that I look way back I'm not as super thrilled with the picture shot as I once was. I did an ok job, but it's not great. Small things. Like closing the animals eyes. Or cleaning blood from the inside of the lips or nose. Fixing feathers. Even changing my shirt to a garment without blood on it after dragging the animal from where it expired. That might be part of learning who I've become now as a hunter... Maybe it's just me being an ass nit picking the picture that I set up and took myself. Maybe it's maturity.
In my humble opinion, much of respecting the animal is in preserving the meat for consumption. That is usually one of the top priorities for me. So if it's a hot day without a tree for three miles, and I need to get the hide off and the meat chilled to keep it good, I may rush the photos to save the eatable trophy (meat), and not spend as much time as one could have to take the trophy pictures. Necessary evil with some game.
I do know this... So help me, if I have to look at another forked and horn deer with its tongue out, bleeding out of one eye and every hole in it, and gut cavity wide open while laying in the back of a pos truck with the hick billy shooter sitting on it holding his "turdy-aught-shicks", I'll probably need a three fingers no ice drink to help medicinally relieve some of my unexpressed anger for the lack of respect for the animal.
One would have to assume taste is a very individual thing. I for one don’t like to take pictures of myself sitting on top of an animal. I prefer no blood showing and the tongue tucked back into the mouth. I want my pictures to be respectful or at least what I consider respectful. As mentioned antis hate any and all Hunting pictures and anything to do with hunting, so trying to impress them will never work nor do I give a rats ass what they think.
I’m more concerned showing my wife the pictures, and although she is not against hunting I want her to not be “grossed” out. Showing respect for the life we have taken is paramount to good taste. Very interesting topic and interesting to hear everyone’s position.
Funny this thread has come back up. I started perusing it again including my two cents. The office mate I mentioned in my post left the company a couple years ago and moved down to Tucson. She has since married a gent who is an avid hunter and he got her hunting now. She posted on FB the cow elk she got last year.......and it was done so in a tasteful manner.
I like the pics where you can see genuine respect for the animal. the pics you see out of Europe where the put the twig of green in their mouth are interesting.
I am not the best picture taker and I can admit that. I can tell you there is basically no way to respectfully take an elephant picture, you killed an elephant and someone is going to get pissed.
Everyone has their own definition of respect and ethical behavior. The pictures are for me and I can choose what I share, who I share it. I take a lot of pictures of everything, landscape, the animal, close ups and far away, because you never know what memory it might bring up.
I eat or donate everything I kill, very little is wasted. I give thanks to God for the opportunity and for it's life. If someone said they were mad or I disrespected the animal because the picture had blood, or showed where I field dressed it, it would really piss me off. I would immediately assume they don't hunt much and realize that there is usually a time crunch to save the meat. If they aren't a hunter, I would understand more but would consider them a hypocrite who doesn't realize what happens to a cow or chicken so they can eat. The reason those pics in black and white didn't offend anyone then because hunters didn't give in to PC pressure.
Actually, these pictures did offend quite a few people in their day but they weren't quite as disseminated then as photographs are today. I think we all do with the meat what you describe doing with the meat of the animals you kill. The difference for me is that being aware is a way not to attract more attention than we already have from anti hunters, it also isn't in my mind a sign of weakness or giving in to anything, because I personally find it appropriate to do our best in the field, as much as possible prior to taking a photograph. The I don't give a shit attitude is hardly a badge of honor. I don't know if the allusion to those who don't hunt much is addressed to me, but if you count the years, I've started hunting when I was nine years old and never stopped...
You're entitled to your views. I don't agree with them.
Respect and ethical behavior are rather standardized codes of ethic, not law, but a modicum of know how, they aren't a personal free for all.
+1 John, my thoughts as well. Respectful, little or no blood if possible, tongue tucked in. I personally no longer take pics with my firearm in the pic either, just myself and animal, or the pH with me as well.
@Paul Homsy thank you for disagreeing with me in a respectful manner.
I understand where you are coming from and I might be a little more fired up then usual. Just tired of people telling others they are offended by this or that. I use tarps when transporting my deer, butcher everything in the privacy of my garage, so I get it. But in my opinion the epitome of of hypocrisy is someone who asks to see pictures and then says they are offended because there is a dead animal in it.
I think the hunting community has bigger issues then offending non hunters with pictures.
I think the trouble with trophy pictures is that they do not capture the hunt at all. If you have been through it, you can look at it with an educated perspective. You know what it took to get that trophy, and what that aged animal means. If you have not gone through the frustration of a failed hunt, a cold, snowy day, the training and preparation....if you haven't done that then it is just someone grinning over a dead animal. It makes little sense. How the heck can you capture the pure feeling of the hunt in a picture that only caputres the end result? I wonder about that.
I agree with you and never thought of it that way but it does make perfect sense.
Thank you for your courtesy, I very sincerely appreciate it. I understand where you're coming from and I'm not far off.
If it was tennis or golf where everyone can certainly do their own thing I'd view it differently. I've never been one to try to emulate others just for the sake of it or be part of a group unless it was for the pleasure I derived from it. Hunters at a rather small community of like minded people where the actions of an individual can help the others. That being said, I'm with you with the gut piles showing at times in the photographs and the bloody noses that can't be cleaned. I'm not transporting a clinic of cleanliness in the bush
Thanks again for your true sportsmanlike reply.
This concept was encountered during the last Photo Contest here on AH.
What's a hunting picture?
How do you capture XYZ...... in any picture? It is incredibly tough to do.
It is always evident to me that the pictures mean something to the owner, but those feelings are very often NOT conveyed to those who were not there.
So, "grinning over a dead animal" is often exactly the message being conveyed.
It is merely a moment in time and to capture more than that moment you require incredible eye, timing, good luck and skill.
Separate names with a comma.