What bullet for my 404 Jeffery

[Gert Odendaal]

Lol - as a 42 year user of the No. 1 platform I am once again going to say "me too"!

Tarbe , now to get the perfect combination for your hunting ....a 404 Jeffery in a Ruger nr 1...

 

[tarbe]

Tarbe , now to get the perfect combination for your hunting ....a 404 Jeffery in a Ruger nr 1...

Well yes, that would be perfect!

I have to settle for the next best thing, a No. 1 in 450-400 Nitro Express!

Those .410 400gr have a superlative sectional density and I can drive them plenty fast enough out of the No. 1....actually faster than ideal in the case of the Woodleigh.

I'll be loading some rounds this weekend with three different powders to test.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Excellent caliber....enjoy your shooting...

 

[tarbe]

Office closed early today due to the "little" hurricane out in the gulf.

So what's a guy to do with some unexpected free time?

Why, load some ammo, of course!

 

[Shootist43]

How do you check your completed rounds for proper headspace? I was hoping to be able to purchase a Wilson Case Gage but they don't make one for the 404 Jeffery.

 

[tarbe]

Are you shooting ammo loaded with cases fired in different rifles?

Especially with rimmed, low-pressure rounds, excess headspace has never been an issue for me. I always full-length size serious hunting ammo at any rate. Heck, I even ran the 400 Jeff cases above through the sizer before loading, even though they were new (mostly to true-up the necks/mouths).

Anything you are going to hunt DG with will be in new or once-fired cases and you'll check them all in the rifle before heading out, no?

Unless I am being dense and missing the point of your question? Sorry if that is the case!!

Tim

 

[IvW]

Are you shooting ammo loaded with cases fired in different rifles?

Especially with rimmed, low-pressure rounds, excess headspace has never been an issue for me. I always full-length size serious hunting ammo at any rate. Heck, I even ran the 400 Jeff cases above through the sizer before loading, even though they were new (mostly to true-up the necks/mouths).

Anything you are going to hunt DG with will be in new or once-fired cases and you'll check them all in the rifle before heading out, no?

Unless I am being dense and missing the point of your question? Sorry if that is the case!!

Tim

Excellent advice Tim,

Small point that is very important, ALWAYS cycle all ammo you take out into the field everyday through your rifle when hunting DG. Attention to detail s often the difference between success and failure and sometimes life and death!

 

[Shootist43]

In the past, after full length resizing new and or fired brass I always ran every case through a Wilson Case gage. That gage checks overall length as well as the set-back or location of the shoulder. If reworked brass passes this "test" I know it will chamber properly. My problem is that I haven't been able to locate a case gage for the 404 Jeffery. I was just wondering seeing that you don't even have the rifle's chamber to make sure your reloads will chamber properly. Sometimes I check the first five pieces of reworked brass. If they work I know my dies are set properly. For ammo that may be used on DG I intend to check every round.

 

[tarbe]

In the past, after full length resizing new and or fired brass I always ran every case through a Wilson Case gage. That gage checks overall length as well as the set-back or location of the shoulder. If reworked brass passes this "test" I know it will chamber properly. My problem is that I haven't been able to locate a case gage for the 404 Jeffery. I was just wondering seeing that you don't even have the rifle's chamber to make sure your reloads will chamber properly. Sometimes I check the first five pieces of reworked brass. If they work I know my dies are set properly. For ammo that may be used on DG I intend to check every round.

I can honestly say that in 43 years of doing this, I have never had ammunition that I have assembled from new brass that would not chamber.

The only time I have had ammo I put together not chamber is when I wanted to shoot up ammo made from brass fired in my M1A, which had been sold, in my Kimber. The Kimber had a minimum chamber and of course the M1A tends to let the brass grow. This was not a surprise and I had to pull that ammo down.

I have a half dozen case gauges that I inherited from a friend, but I don't bother with them. For hunting ammo or SD ammo I run them through the gun.

If you find you need to check your cases routinely with a gauge, then by all means you should do so.

Edit: Specifically to this comment: "I was just wondering seeing that you don't even have the rifle's chamber to make sure your reloads will chamber properly"

You must consider that the ammo manufacturers don't have the rifle's chamber available to them in the sense you are referring. But our chambers and the brass going in them (when new) are made to SAAMI specifications.

And of course, I will soon have the rifle, and I will take it to the range with this ammo and I will chronograph it and it will all, with 99.999% certainty, chamber just fine.

I'll let you know if it doesn't.

Tim

 

[nztimb]

This is a very interesting thread with especial mention of @lvW for his experiencial advise that has been so clearly articulated.
I have been a long time enthusiast of the 404 Jeffery as a formidable accross the board capable cartridge and it warms my heart to see it being given such well earned recognition amongst the experienced hunters and PH's with many new converts to this once and future champion of the hunting fields.
Over the years I have saved a bit of data on the 404 and this piece in particular is relevant to those wondering about the 404 compared to the 375 as a PG rifle

Ballistics expert Keith Luckhurst ran some trajectory tests comparing a .404 Jeffery loaded with 400-grain bullets at 2280 fps, a .458 Winchester Magnum loaded with 500-grain bullets at 2090 fps, and a .375 H&H leaded with 300-grain bullets at 2550 fps, all sighted in at 100 meters. According to Luckhurst, “At 250 meters the .375 Magnum has dropped 11 inches, the .404 has dropped 13 inches and the .458 has dropped 18 inches. But at 150 meters there is a spread of only one inch between these calibers, and at 200 meters it is four inches. Most gunwriters would describe the .375 Magnum as flat shooting and the descriptions of the .458 tend to include words like ‘rainbow trajectory.’ In reality, the point of aim for any of the rifles is virtually the same out to 150 meters.” Luckhurst concludes that the .404 Jeffery, with better penetration and less recoil than the .458, a trajectory almost as flat as the .375 H&H, and overall performance similar or equal to the .416 Rigby, is a particularly well-balanced rifle for the largest and most dangerous game.

This is another piece from the same artical

I heard the following story from a Professional Hunter with years of experience in Zimbabwe and South Africa:

“When a client shows up in camp with a .375 Holland & Holland, you immediately know that you have a practical and able chap as a customer, a wise and knowledgeable hunter who will listen to reason. When a client shows up in camp with a .458 Win Mag, you know that most likely the only experience the hunter has had is reading the pages of Outdoor Life magazine, probably 30-year-old editions. When a client shows up in camp with a Remington or a Weatherby in any caliber, you know the hunter’s experience probably does not extend past the clerk at the gun counter. When a client shows up with a double rifle, you know you have an elitist for a customer, much like the guy coming down the charter boat dock at the marina carrying a fly rod, and you approach him with caution. When a client shows up with a .416 Rigby, you know you have someone who has studied and respects the rich history and traditions of the sport of dangerous-game hunting. And when a client shows up in camp with a .404 Jeffery, you know this is someone who cares enough about said history and traditions to go to the immense trouble of building and loading a gun and cartridge long sacrificed to the gods of mass production and commercialism. You take a liking to this guy immediately.”

Nuff said!!!

 

[Anthony Bria]

I have a 404 Jeffery and have shot woodleighs 400 grain
Soft nose and solids.
They work great on water buffalo and scrub bulls

Sent from my SM-G900I using AfricaHunting mobile app

 

[Shootist43]

Well maybe this helps you make a choice

L to R: Northfork, A-Frame, Barnes, Rhino

View attachment 200250 View attachment 200252

DWB, Do you recall what animals these bullets were recovered from? I have been looking on-line for a source for Rhino Bullets in the States for several days to no avail. I sent Rhino an email last Friday evening asking them for their U.S. Distributor. Just in case they are unavailable to me which of the other bullets would you recommend?

 

[DWB]

These were all from 25l watercans that I ligned up 6 in a row. Its a pretty hard test and was thick and heavy plastic. Most made it through 3/4 cans. But the ones I have recovered from animals look the same... I have to amuse myself sometimes. The Rhino opens up in 4 petals, but in effect Northfork is the same concept namely: Solid shank bonded lead core

 

[IvW]

Maybe one buff 20 yds and an eland at 200 meters same rifle same bullet 400 gr TSX but I've used Barnes bullets now for going on 20 years and I can count on one hand the number of animals that required a second shot, five trips to Africa plus bear, hogs, moose, deer ,elk ,coyote, wolves,beaver,cats so not just one shot but a lifetime of hunting and TTSX or TSX have performed as advertised every time no failures. From 500 Jeffery, 470 NE, 458lott, 458win mag, 9.3 x 66, 9.3 x 62,9.3x74, 338/06, 338Federal, 30-06, 308, 6.8 spc, 270 win, 25-06, 260 Rem, 243 win, and various others over time.
I reload all my ammo and have going on close to fourty years now. They work for me.

Still only one DG African animal in your list.

As I mentioned they work most of the time but not every time. My conclusions are from 26 years professional hunting in Africa and countless members of the big six. There are worse choices than TSX but there are also some better ones.

I prefer the better ones.

 

[ve7poi]

That true but the TSX is still better than the bullets used when the 404 J was issue firearm for most game departments. The bullets you mentioned are extreamly difficult to procure here or are two to three time the cost when importing shipping etc.

 

[tarbe]

That true but the TSX is still better than the bullets used when the 404 J was issue firearm for most game departments. The bullets you mentioned are extreamly difficult to procure here or are two to three time the cost when importing shipping etc.

What you say is true sir, no doubt.

But the questions were not "What bullet is better than the bullets from 100 years ago"? Or, "What is the best bullet value in Canada"?

 

[ve7poi]

Then what is your better bullet that's available

 

[tarbe]

Then what is your better bullet that's available

My vote doesn't matter...I've never killed a buffalo (although I did state earlier in the thread that for the 404J I'd start with the 430gr Northfork SS).

But I do know what the question was...so I was trying to help keep things on track.

 

[IvW]

That true but the TSX is still better than the bullets used when the 404 J was issue firearm for most game departments. The bullets you mentioned are extreamly difficult to procure here or are two to three time the cost when importing shipping etc.

Yes the TSX are better than the old conventional bullets, they may be fine for client to use but you need to take their limitations into account when using them on Africa's hard DG animals.

As I have mentioned they are ok, but there are better bullets out there.

The cost of premium grade ammunition or bullets should not be part of the equation when hunting DG! DG hunting can be a hazardous pastime and when lives are at stake, only the best will do.

I understand everything we want is not always available, I would start by sending the mentioned bullet manufacturer's a mail and then find out if they have a distributor in Canada. They may even be able to ship directly to you.

Below is Rhino bullets webpage, send Kobus or Shirley a message, they may be able to sort you out. Good luck and safe hunting.

http://rhinobullets.co.za/

 

[ve7poi]

thank you
Much appreciated