What additional caliber for my R8?

Tra3

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I seem to have some extra time to ponder life’s great questions. I could use some input on what small/medium caliber to get for my R8.
Background: my son as I now have a brace of R8’s with barrels in .375h&h, .300 win mag, 6.5 creedmoor and .22lr. I plan to use the .300 WM for my Western NA hunting. My son will use the 6.5CM. I’d like to get a barrel I can use for Minnesota deer and MT antelope. I think the .300WM is too much for close range hunting in the woods.
So, what do I get?
I like reading about the effectiveness of the .257 weatherby in the hunting report by @One Day... (I Don’t reload, yet.)
What do you all suggest?
 
I’ve been vacillating on what barrels I’ll purchase when I purchase a R8. The .257 Wby is IMO the ultimate antelope round but not a great shorter range deer round. I’d think about the good old .270 Winchester. A 130 gr at ~3100 fps would be great for prairie goats and with a 150 gr at 2850 fps, not blow a deer apart at 100 yds (with proper bullet selection).
 
I would say "You can't have too many barrels". I'll start with what I have: 204 Ruger, 6XC, 6.5-284, .308win, .300WM, .300Wby, 2- 8X5X7, 8X68s, 8mm Rem Mag, 9.3X62, .375 H&H, .416 Rem Mag, .458 Lott
Yes Yes I know but it's an affliction that I am quite comfortable with.
IMG_1560.jpeg
 
Personally I'm a big fan of the 6.5x55SE.
With 140 grain pills, MT Antelope will be falling.

At the same time, a case could be made for the 308WIN.
I know it's close to your 300WM, but less powder, recoil, noise and good at close range.

Good luck with it.
Let us know how it turns out.
 
@meigsbucks I’ve hunted with a .270 quite a bit, it was my first rifle caliber. 150’s work well for certain. Do you have experience with the .257 W at close range?

@dchamp holy cow! That is an impressive array. Is the hanging system just holes in the wood? I like the idea.
Which barrel to you pick for thick woods deer hunting? Which for 400 yard antelope shots?

@BeeMaa Ive never shot a 6.5x55se, looks like about the same as a 6.5CM. Do you have a preferred bullet?
 
Wow!! That’s flat impressive, love the barrel rack. How do you keep them secure so they won’t fall off?
 
Tra3, I will indeed recommend the .257 Wby / 100 gr TTSX as a fantastic light caliber / load that punches way above its weight class. As you mentioned, this was my PG hunt main caliber / load in 2019 and I cannot speak of it highly enough (https://www.africahunting.com/threa...ill-safaris-even-better-than-last-year.52376/).

I am absolutely not concerned about using the .257 Wby at short range if I am shooting the 100 gr TTSX. This little bullet is tough as nails and will not blow up, nor will it do undue damage to the meat. Admittedly I favor the behind the shoulder double-lungs shots so there is very little meat damage, while the instant killing effect is downright impressive...

This being said - funny you would ask this today - I just paid $550 today for an as-new standard length CZ 550 in ... drum rolls please and tip of the hat to meigsbucks ... .270 Win. As you likely know I own 3 magnum length tuned-up CZ 550 (.300 Wby, .375 H&H, .416 Rigby) and I wanted one in a small caliber. I initially bid on the standard length CZ 550 in order to get the action to rebarrel it to .257 Wby, but as I spent a fair amount of time today looking at the ballistics of the .270 Win with both 110 gr TTSX, 130 gr TTSX, and 150 gr TTSX, I am starting to think that the .270 Win barrel may stay on it, especially since the PPU 130 gr SP load can be had as low as $12 per 20 rounds box and matches exactly the ballistics of the Barnes 130 gr TTSX load... Very cheap practice ammo, but still very good shooting ammo and brass based on my experience with several calibers (.223 Match, 7 Rem Mag, .308 Match, .300 Win Mag, .375 H&H, etc.)...

We shall see what the future holds for me, but there is precious little to argue between .257 Wby 100 gr TTSX at 3,550 fps and .270 Win 110 gr TTSX at 3,400 fps: the .270 Win flies within 1/2" or the .257 Wby out to 350 yards and only drop 1.5" more at 400 yards. In addition, the .270 can be up-gunned to 130 and 150 gr TTSX - which the .257 Wby cannot. As mentioned, .270 Win practice ammo is dirt cheap; and to top it all, .270 Win ammo can be found in an African bazaar. I am hesitating............................

I agree with BeeMaa that the old 6.5x55 Swede is a grand old cartridge, in the league of the 7x57 Mauser in my view, not to mention the 6.5x54 MS of considerable African legend, but it is typically loaded at mild level, so for a non-reloader it may not be the ticket. Commercial loads go down to 120 gr, but at 2,400 they do not offer stellar ballistics and are in a different class from the .257 Wby 100 gr / .270 Win 110 gr that essentially fly 1,000+ (yep, one thousand plus) fps faster...

As to the 6.5 Creedmoor, it is nothing other than a modern rendition of the 6.5x55 but at least it is loaded to higher pressure. The Hornady 95 gr VMax load flies at 3,300 fps but this is no TTSX and I would not even dream of using it on PG... As to the typical 140 gr hunting loads, they generally fly around 2,700 fps, which again, is not in the same class (700 fps slower) as the .257 Wby and .270 Win. Case capacity, Baby, case capacity... And better have an external target turret on the scope of a 6.5 Creedmoor, because the MPBR of the cartridge is really not great...

26 Nosler would be a candidate in my mind...
 
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@BeeMaa Ive never shot a 6.5x55se, looks like about the same as a 6.5CM. Do you have a preferred bullet?
As @One Day... stated above, the 6.5CM is basically a modern rendition of the 6.5x55SE.
One thing you can note is that the Europeans typically load to higher velocity and pressure.
The "SE" designation means it's the equivalent of a +P load.
Loads not marked SE are made for use in older historical firearms.

I owned a WWI Swedish Mauser built in 1918 chambered in 6.5x55.
My Grandfather used 140 grain Nosler loaded ammo to take several deer in Upstate NY.
I only shot the rifle a few times before selling it, and never in a hunting scenario.
Therefore I don't feel qualified to speak to any particular bullets effectiveness in the field.
There are several members here much more qualified than myself to answer your 6.5mm questions.

That said, the Swedish have been using this cartridge for Moose for more than a century.
You should be good for NA Deer and Antelope.
 
26 Nosler would be a candidate in my mind...
To each his own, but I don't see the real benefit of hunting with the "faster" 6.5's
264WM was the original "fast" 6.5mm and is still one of them.
It's been joined by the 6.5-284NORMA, 26NOSLER and 6.5-300WBY to name a few.
Matter of fact WBY just released the 6.5WBY RPM to compete with it's own 6.5-300WBY.o_O
Those two cartridges push a 127 grain bullet to 3200-3500FPS.

I talked over the phone with a member here about all the wicked fast 6.5's.
Fact of the matter is speed kills...your barrel.
This is coming from a competition shooter who allows his barrel to cool to ambient after each shot.
He also uses it for ground hogs at 700-800 yards...varminting, not hunting.
Throat erosion is real, even in a (varmiting) hunting rifle.
Keeping a 6.5mm bullet speed to 2900FPS will really help save your barrel.

For hunting the 6.5x55SE is very capable of taking game out to 300+ yards.
I would stick with the slower 6.5's or maybe the 270WIN if you want to move up in size.
There is really very little new under the sun.
 
Personally I'm a big fan of the 6.5x55SE.
With 140 grain pills, MT Antelope will be falling.

At the same time, a case could be made for the 308WIN.
I know it's close to your 300WM, but less powder, recoil, noise and good at close range.

Good luck with it.
Let us know how it turns out.

+1 on the 308 win. Out to 300 yards or so, it’s pretty hard to beat for hunting non-DG. As BeeMaa pointed out it’s got low recoil, plus it works well in a light and compact rifles and ammo is cheap, readily available pretty much anywhere, with a large selection of bullet sizes and types.
 
I would say "You can't have too many barrels". I'll start with what I have: 204 Ruger, 6XC, 6.5-284, .308win, .300WM, .300Wby, 2- 8X5X7, 8X68s, 8mm Rem Mag, 9.3X62, .375 H&H, .416 Rem Mag, .458 Lott
Yes Yes I know but it's an affliction that I am quite comfortable with.
View attachment 345781
Wow, amazing! What a collection.
 
Something in 7mm? Or the imperial 280s
I like the 7mm”08 but I asked the question on 7mm cartridges what’s your thoughts and learned a. Lot about the 280 rem 7x57, 7x64 the AI versions etc
So 7mm-08 is a modern incarnation of the 7x57 the 7x64 or .280 are head to head just different heritage European vs American.
I used a 7mmRM in Africa, fast flat but considerably smaller projectile than the .300wm that I have owned and own .308
Well I consider the .62 mm a difference a lot in a projectile.
I like my 7mm-08 but there is a Mad Aussie here that will undoubtedly tell you of his passion for the .25 and .35 cals.
Hey did you consider the .243 ?
 
I guess to answer your question directly I would say .308. It is such a fun discussion as the options on the R8 are endless. Now you are making me think about what I want for my next R8 barrel!
I thought about something small like .223. I know it sounds too conventional but I did so well in RSA a couple years ago with the Barnes ammo in .223 on a variety of game.
Regards,
Philip
 
What a great collection of calibers so far! The .257 weatherby has a great history but you might consider the .25/06. Lots of western hunters use it as the main deer rifle, would have plenty of reach for pronghorn, and lots of availability of ammunition
 
@dchamp holy cow! That is an impressive array. Is the hanging system just holes in the wood? I like the idea.
Which barrel to you pick for thick woods deer hunting? Which for 400 yard antelope shots?

Thanks, the top board is a piece of 1x4 that is planed down and tapered slightly from top to bottom thin to thick respectfully with holes drilled every 2" or 50mm to receive the stud bolts. The bottom board is just a piece of 2x2 that is planed a little. Both are screwed into the side of the book case. The idea is to kick the bottom out enough so that the barrels rest in place without a tendency to fall out of place.

For thick woods I would use the 8x57. It is a wonderful cartridge especially for the handloader but admittedly I have a thing for anything 8mm. My second choice would be the 9.3x62, another sweet cartridge. For pronghorn I would use the 6XC. I have shot all of my pronghorn except two with a 6mm Remington and it has never disappointed me. The 6XC that I have is very accurate. The .257Wby would be another excellent choice for pronghorn or deer. I shot a friend of mine's Weatherby Lazer Mark .257Wby yesterday while zeroing his new scope. It is really nice and fast. We chronograph'd Weatherby factory 100gn ammo at 3475 - 3500 f/s. It has me thinking... a dangerous thing for my pocket book.
IMG_1561.jpeg
 
Admittedly I’m a boring 30-06 fan. Huge variety of ammo! I use it for dark timber deer and elk hunting moving to my 300WM only when in open country. It has taken Antelope to over 400 yards and Texas whitetail at 25 yards. Put the bullet where it belongs and meat damage can be held to a minimum.
I’ve also taken deer (both whitetail and mulies) and antelope with a 243 and a 300WM at over 400 yards. Either can make a mess if hitting bone at extended ranges.
Historical recommendations by outdoor writers for antelope under all conditions in my research has been 270, 25-06 and 257 Weatherby. All shoot outstanding at long range. The 6.5s should be added into this as well, IMO.
For dark timber hunting any deer, elk, or black bear I prefer a bigger slower bullet starting at 30 caliber and going up to maybe 35 caliber.
If you start handloading, your 300WM can do it all IME!

Tough decision! I’ll be watching for your final decision and hope to read how it’s working for you and your son!
 
I would go with the 30-06 their is a reason its been the benchmark hunting cartridge for more than 100 years.
 
@meigsbucks I’ve hunted with a .270 quite a bit, it was my first rifle caliber. 150’s work well for certain. Do you have experience with the .257 W at close range?

@dchamp holy cow! That is an impressive array. Is the hanging system just holes in the wood? I like the idea.
Which barrel to you pick for thick woods deer hunting? Which for 400 yard antelope shots?

@BeeMaa Ive never shot a 6.5x55se, looks like about the same as a 6.5CM. Do you have a preferred bullet?
No, I’ve never used a .257 Wby (on my barrel wish list for a R8) but have taken deer with a .25/06 with 117 gr Sierra @3100 fps and the 100 gr Barnes TSX @ 3300 fps on deer under 100 yds. The Sierra was devastating to the lungs but blew a huge exit hole (~60 yds). The Barnes hit the opposite shoulder and did an extensive amount of damage (~75 yds).
 
Speed kills... game or barrels?

In the absolute, I totally agree with Beema:
Fact of the matter is speed kills...your barrel.

In fact, most experienced people would say that the mild .308, for example, retains match accuracy for ~5,000 rounds, and the hot .22o Swift, for example, retains varmint accuracy for ~1,000 rounds, with people who shoot them reasonably (i.e do not shoot rapid fire 10 rounds strings). Hunting accuracy lasts a little longer, likely, say ~7,000 rounds for the .308 and maybe ~1,500 rounds for the hot rods.

In the hunting context, what does this mean?

We are talking hunting here, right?, which I would define in most cases as 1 round, and occasionally 2 or 3 rounds in a row, right?, maybe half a dozen to a dozen times per year (who gets more tags than that annually these days, right?), not rapid sustained fire like in military applications, or possibly varmint shooting, every week, right?

So, in the hunting (key word: hunting) context, what does 1,000 rounds life mean?

Assuming you shoot in your hunting rifle in your country of residence, say 2 boxes of ammo per year, which is a whole lot more than most hunters do, a 1,000 rounds barrel life equates to ... 25 years.

Say you are going to Africa once every few years and burn 50 rounds there, maybe the life of your barrel drops to 20 years...

Allow me to horrify the fraternity here, but I really, truly could not possibly care less if my hunting (key word: hunting) rifles do not have a 5,000 rounds life (= 100 years @ 50 rounds/year). I am entirely happy with 20 years, hence the 1,000 rounds life of the .26 Nosler, for example, is just fine and dandy with me :)
To each his own, but I don't see the real benefit of hunting with the "faster" 6.5's

To me, there is very little that is more precious in a hunting (again, key operating word: hunting) rifle - assuming decent hunting accuracy - than a 300 yards MPBR (Maximum Point Blank Range). We are talking PG rifles here, this obviously does not apply to DG rifles! What this means is that from 0 to 300 yards, I just put the cross hair on the center of the vital zone and I fire.
  • The .270 Win launching a 130 gr bullet at 3,140 fps has a 300 yards MPBR. I like this.
  • The .257 Wby launching a 100 gr bullet at 3,600 fps has a 340 yards MPBR. This makes hunting shots easier for another 40 additional yards.
  • A modern 6.5x55 load sending a 140 gr bullet at 2,600 fps has a 260 yards MPBR. From 260 to 300 yards, or say around 350 yards, which is a reasonable maximum range for hunting (key operating word: hunting), you need "Kentucky windage" or clicking the scope turret, which you may or may not have the time, or more commonly the presence of mind, to do...
So, to me, the advantage of living with the short barrel life of 1,000 rounds is that I essentially have an almost 100 yards of additional MPBR. It is well worth considering a new barrel every 20 or 25 years :)

If one of Tra3's objectives is "Montana antelope", I tend to think longer shots, hence longer MPBR, which I why I was therefore thinking speed...
 
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