Wanted Verney-Carron Double Rifle In .470NE Or .500NE With Ejectors

Red Leg

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Scott CWO

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If $37,500 is in your wheelhouse I know someone selling a Army & Navy .470 NE on another web site. It is a Webley long-bar action with a doll’s head 3rd bite, 28” bbls, 14.5” LOP, weighs 12#, and extractors. He had JJ Perideaux check it out a few years back. Asking price is $19,000. I am sure he will deal.

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Thanks @Tanks. Do you know which Birmingham make built the gun? I will send you a PM. Maybe you can put him in touch with me? I do wish it had ejectors.
 

rookhawk

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Thanks @Tanks. Do you know which Birmingham make built the gun? I will send you a PM. Maybe you can put him in touch with me? I do wish it had ejectors.

Army-Navy Cooperative Society Limited’s records are kept at the University of Glasgow. For about £50 you can get a researcher to go through the ledger and give you a fair amount of info. That said, it looks like a Webley made gun from Birmingham. Basic grade. Extractor gun. Even at a basic grade, very high quality.
 

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Guns International #: 101329096
 

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spike.t

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Scott shame you didn't decide you wanted a double last year...my 470 lang that paul rebuilt would have been perfect ,and I ended up selling for :E Crying::E Red Hot:
 

rookhawk

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Guns International #: 101329096


So what's good and bad with this rifle?

The good: Its not priced stupidly. That's a great start. $10,995 retail means that's an $8000-$8800 gun. That seems about right.

The bad: It's a very early gun so it needs to be regulated or ammo needs to be regulated to it. There is an *outside* chance an email with the serial number to VC might result in a build sheet that explains what load it was built for initially. It is likely from that extinct German brand or it is for Birtenberger austrian ammo or RWS. In either of those three cases, it's not helpful at present. The other bad is that it has a 23.5" set of barrels, that's pretty short and if it uses an original Kynoch loading at that muzzle length, the velocity is going to be a bit low. The other bad is that several screws are out of time, suggesting that a gun has had a back story. That's to be expected on older vintage pieces, but this "like new one safari gun" seems to have needed something done to it very early in its duty cycle.

The ugly: The cheekpiece is very low quality execution. The sugar-loaf forend is aesthetically not very attractive and rudimentary. The bolsters on the sides of the action are pretty poorly executed compared to a modern VC. The stock geometry is grotesque and the size of the butt along with the grip and wrist are quite peculiar, enlarged, and not of a quality you'd expect even out of a modern French, Ferlach, or Spanish gun. The short barrels with the enlarged stock and the long 15" LOP may coalesce to be a gun that doesn't balance or point well, but that's conjecture without gun in hand.

Overall, this is a gun that isn't terrible, but it needs to be cheap to offset its "less than best" features.
 

Daniel Cary

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I'm as well looking for a 500 N.E., and received a lot of great correspondence from members here in the interest of Double's ... I came across this VC for $15,500. ? I really don't know if this is priced right, etc .. However, these VC's are beautiful, and this is no exception!

"GunsInternational" New York.
vc.jpg
 

Daniel Cary

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I'm as well looking for a 500 N.E., and received a lot of great correspondence from members here in the interest of Double's ... I came across this VC for $15,500. ? I really don't know if this is priced right, etc .. However, these VC's are beautiful, and this is no exception!

"GunsInternational" New York. View attachment 369406

I was apprehensive to post this as it was a strong consideration. However, if anyone has some input on this sale, I'd love to hear it. Many Thanks!
 

rookhawk

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673E54DB-3BD1-4E9E-894E-920C50E7D94F.jpeg


a typical vintage French/Italian/Spanish double. Worth some amount similar to original purchase price or less. (A fraction of asking price) looking at these vintage VCs I cant believe anyone thinks these are in the same quality as a heym or the lowest quality British doubles?

not marked but visible: a wrist as large as Hillary Clinton’s cankles. Grip cap not pronounced, giant grip almost like a palmswell, top of wrist as it meets drop at comb point is gigantic. Why? A. Terrible wood and they feared it would break if they had proper dimension, B. Amateur stock maker built the gun.

also not marked. Short LOP, thus long pad added.
 
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Daniel Cary

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View attachment 369408

a typical vintage French/Italian/Spanish double. Worth some amount similar to original purchase price or less. (A fraction of asking price) looking at these vintage VCs I cant believe anyone thinks these are in the same quality as a heym or the lowest quality British doubles?

Ha! Thank You & well said! .. Certainly can see the perspective.

Very much appreciated. Regards, Dan!
 
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rookhawk

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Two Verney Caron images from the net that prove they can make a proper stock. Compare and contrast as there are huge differences.

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Tanks

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For perspective.

I paid that amount for brand new (show demo) left handed VC in .450 NE. Paid 1K more for left handed Heym in .500 NE that had 6 rounds per barrel through it (by the owner).
 

AES

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I answered you offline in more detail. Would I buy it to use myself? No. Would I buy it as an investment for $8000 to sell to someone that thinks beretta shotgun = great, therefore beretta double rifle = great, I'd then flip it for $12,000 a few years later or barter it for an English gun I would shoot? Sure. The problem with this flip it strategy, exploiting the naivety of a shotgun shooter that recognizes beretta as a brand, is that the current seller is trying that same approach, only asking $37,500 rather than the sellable value (overpriced to me) of $12,000. That is a bare-nothing, likely unregulated (see the wedge still there?) border engraved beretta. And it has long barrels that make it harder to market.

For $37,500 or anything over $30,000 you're able to get into truly exceptional double rifles. I sent you a link of what you can get at that type of pricepoint for illustrative purposes.

I would certainly appreciate a copy of that PM if you have time.
 
 

 

 

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