Wanted Verney-Carron Double Rifle In .470NE Or .500NE With Ejectors

Scott CWO

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If anyone wants to sell, I am looking for my first DR for a hunt next year in Botswana. I would like to find a used VC with ejectors and an intercepting sear safety. I am not sure I can get a new one built by VC in time and I am not against a used rifle if in good shape and well regulated. I have sent emails to VC. I will start looking around on the gun sites but I am a bit nervous about buying a rifle that doesn't shoot well or regulate. I figured I could more likely trust someone here. I have bought three rifles on AH with great results. I might consider another brand but based on another member's advice, VC is my first choice for a DR that's not too crazy expensive. Thanks, Scott
 

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IvW

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I don't think VC has intercepting sear safety, however Heym does.

There is a NIB VC on gunsinternational in .500NE. I am sure you can work out a deal.


They are available with intercepting sears on the safety as long as whomever ordered the rifle specified it as it is an optional extra
 

chashardy

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Good luck on your search. If I were in the market for another double, it would be a VC round body in 450/300 or 470NE. I looked at the VC rifles in their booth at the DSC convention in Dallas this year. Beautiful rifles for a really competitive price.
 

rookhawk

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@Scott CWO I wouldn't discount the notion of finding a London gun, Birmingham Gun, or a Heym as well. Verney-Carrons seem to be selling used above what I think they should whereas all the former have been selling at pretty reasonable prices. In short, you might find a Heym for $2000 more than a VC which is in practice the difference between a BMW and a Ferrari.
 

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@Scott CWO I wouldn't discount the notion of finding a London gun, Birmingham Gun, or a Heym as well. Verney-Carrons seem to be selling used above what I think they should whereas all the former have been selling at pretty reasonable prices. In short, you might find a Heym for $2000 more than a VC which is in practice the difference between a BMW and a Ferrari.

@rookhawk - not to hijack this thread, but are there any guarantees, or what are the right questions, when asking about some of the older name-branded doubles and their regulation. I find some shops specifically mention regulation, or state reconditioned in UK(which I interpret to mean regulation is confirmed), while others don’t say anything at all on their posts or adds about regulation. I too have been cruising the various shops and sites for a well made double that won’t break the bank, but that obviously is not some piece of junk. I at least know as far as doubles are concerned, you get what you pay for. But interested in regards to regulation and craftsmanship when that extra $2-5K is worth it. This kinda tags along with what you wrote above. Thanks in advance for your time.
 

rookhawk

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@rookhawk - not to hijack this thread, but are there any guarantees, or what are the right questions, when asking about some of the older name-branded doubles and their regulation. I find some shops specifically mention regulation, or state reconditioned in UK(which I interpret to mean regulation is confirmed), while others don’t say anything at all on their posts or adds about regulation. I too have been cruising the various shops and sites for a well made double that won’t break the bank, but that obviously is not some piece of junk. I at least know as far as doubles are concerned, you get what you pay for. But interested in regards to regulation and craftsmanship when that extra $2-5K is worth it. This kinda tags along with what you wrote above. Thanks in advance for your time.

most of the time, British doubles regulate with kynoch/Ici regulating loads....sometimes you’re screwed and must handload. Sometimes a brand new or recent heym or Verne Caron will regulate to a federal or hornady load...sometimes you’re screwed because they regulated to extinct modern brands or 15 year old federal recipes now extinct.

in all cases short of new with warranty, assume you’re handloading and be delighted if not the case.
 

Mort Hill

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most of the time, British doubles regulate with kynoch/Ici regulating loads....sometimes you’re screwed and must handload. Sometimes a brand new or recent heym or Verne Caron will regulate to a federal or hornady load...sometimes you’re screwed because they regulated to extinct modern brands or 15 year old federal recipes now extinct.

in all cases short of new with warranty, assume you’re handloading and be delighted if not the case.

Great information. Thank you.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program.
 

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If anyone wants to sell, I am looking for my first DR for a hunt next year in Botswana. I would like to find a used VC with ejectors and an intercepting sear safety. I am not sure I can get a new one built by VC in time and I am not against a used rifle if in good shape and well regulated. I have sent emails to VC. I will start looking around on the gun sites but I am a bit nervous about buying a rifle that doesn't shoot well or regulate. I figured I could more likely trust someone here. I have bought three rifles on AH with great results. I might consider another brand but based on another member's advice, VC is my first choice for a DR that's not too crazy expensive. Thanks, Scott
There was one for sale in South Africa
 

IvW

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Personally I would go with a modern double as a working rifle as apposed to a vintage English double.
To be quite honest in my personal opinion of course I regard a VC as top of the bunch a Heym is most definitely a good double rifle(my second choice) but thinking it is a Ferrari as opposed to a BMW...no way...

VC build a superb S x S double rifle on arguably the strongest available modern action, regulated to your choice of ammunition, your set up regarding sights, stock grade, barrel length, custom stock etc... etc... what is not to like? Yes it is Italian and not English or German but so what? It is right up there as one of if not the best modern working double rifles you can buy at an affordable price..

Same for Italian shotguns in the modern version....Renato Gamba build arguably the best competition shotgun available....
 

rookhawk

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Points of order:

1. Verney Caron is not Italian, it's French. That's not necessarily in and of itself a compliment.
2. If you've ever been inside the locks of a VC you'd see it as what it is, a bit rough and of no comparison to a heym or the lowliest of British double rifles ever made.
3. They are finished a bit more overstated with a bit more sizzle than an average Heym and certainly are more embellished than the typically understated British best guns.
4. I was being as generous as possible by comparing a VC as a BMW and a Heym as a Ferrari. The better analogy is a Citroen versus a Porsche.

Is a VC junk and unworthy of purchase? Absolutely not. It's a functional double rifle that has a decent reputation. Is a VC used an expensive rifle, priced beyond its competitive quality compared to alternatives? Usually yes.

Would I own one having seen them, handled them, and inspected their internal workings? Sure. Would I pay $13,000 for a used one with some embellishment? Definitely not. Would I pay $7500-$8000 for one? Sure. Would I pay $13,000-$18,000 for a VC in the current market, used, higher grade, when I can buy a British double or a Heym used of mid-grade or better for a similar price? Absolutely not.

Obviously there is some opinion above and who am I to disagree with someone that likes French safari rifles? I'm just telling you as fact, internally, they are of no likeness to a Heym or anything that has ever been made in the UK. All their quality goes into external finish appeal, the opposite of a Heym or British double.




Personally I would go with a modern double as a working rifle as apposed to a vintage English double.
To be quite honest in my personal opinion of course I regard a VC as top of the bunch a Heym is most definitely a good double rifle(my second choice) but thinking it is a Ferrari as opposed to a BMW...no way...

VC build a superb S x S double rifle on arguably the strongest available modern action, regulated to your choice of ammunition, your set up regarding sights, stock grade, barrel length, custom stock etc... etc... what is not to like? Yes it is Italian and not English or German but so what? It is right up there as one of if not the best modern working double rifles you can buy at an affordable price..

Same for Italian shotguns in the modern version....Renato Gamba build arguably the best competition shotgun available....
nt
 

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Verney-Carron makes excellent double rifles , but they have one especially good quality which sets them apart from most other brands of double rifles .

Verney-Carron provides a warranty for their double rifles to be safely used with monolithic brass bullets . Many manufacturers of double rifles ( including my personal favorite - Krieghoff ) do not provide such a warranty .

Among vintage double rifles , I am also a huge fan of Auguste Francotte sidelock ejector double rifles . Guns International currently has one in .470 NE ( Nitro Express ) for sale . Given the vintage , I would speculate that it is regulated for ICI Kynoch cordite based 500 grain factory loads .
 

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I have a Heym in .500 NE and VC in .450 NE both left handed. I have not shot them enough to make a judgement call. I like them both. One thing I like about the left handed VC vs left handed Heym is that the action on VC is a true left hand action whereas on Heym it is a right hand action. I don't even think that is an option on Heym.

First Africa trip for the doubles will be Heym in August 2021, but thinking of taking the VC for a mountain lion hunt in Utah in a few months.
 

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I have a Heym in .500 NE and VC in .450 NE both left handed. I have not shot them enough to make a judgement call. I like them both. One thing I like about the left handed VC vs left handed Heym is that the action on VC is a true left hand action whereas on Heym it is a right hand action. I don't even think that is an option on Heym.

First Africa trip for the doubles will be Heym in August 2021, but thinking of taking the VC for a mountain lion hunt in Utah in a few months.

take the stocks off and let me know what you think on the inside.

true left hand top lever is a rare feature and makes a VC unique.
 

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take the stocks off and let me know what you think on the inside.
...

Looking inside the locks as you suggested, if the firearm functions and is reliable does it really matter if it is a bit rough inside?

I think for new doubles Heym is thousands more than the VC in same calibers so you are paying for that extra workmanship.

My next double most likely be in 9.3x74R. I will talk to both vendors at DSC and see what shakes.
 
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I believe on a true left hand action the lever moves to the left instead of right, but also the front trigger fires the left bbl. and rear trigger the right. Just the opposite of a right hand dbl.
 

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@Scott CWO I wouldn't discount the notion of finding a London gun, Birmingham Gun, or a Heym as well. Verney-Carrons seem to be selling used above what I think they should whereas all the former have been selling at pretty reasonable prices. In short, you might find a Heym for $2000 more than a VC which is in practice the difference between a BMW and a Ferrari.


Any thoughts on this Beretta?
 

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Tanks

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Any thoughts on this Beretta?

If $37,500 is in your wheelhouse I know someone selling a Army & Navy .470 NE on another web site. It is a Webley long-bar action with a doll’s head 3rd bite, 28” bbls, 14.5” LOP, weighs 12#, and extractors. He had JJ Perideaux check it out a few years back. Asking price is $19,000. I am sure he will deal.

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Any thoughts on this Beretta?


I answered you offline in more detail. Would I buy it to use myself? No. Would I buy it as an investment for $8000 to sell to someone that thinks beretta shotgun = great, therefore beretta double rifle = great, I'd then flip it for $12,000 a few years later or barter it for an English gun I would shoot? Sure. The problem with this flip it strategy, exploiting the naivety of a shotgun shooter that recognizes beretta as a brand, is that the current seller is trying that same approach, only asking $37,500 rather than the sellable value (overpriced to me) of $12,000. That is a bare-nothing, likely unregulated (see the wedge still there?) border engraved beretta. And it has long barrels that make it harder to market.

For $37,500 or anything over $30,000 you're able to get into truly exceptional double rifles. I sent you a link of what you can get at that type of pricepoint for illustrative purposes.
 

Scott CWO

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I answered you offline in more detail. Would I buy it to use myself? No. Would I buy it as an investment for $8000 to sell to someone that thinks beretta shotgun = great, therefore beretta double rifle = great, I'd then flip it for $12,000 a few years later or barter it for an English gun I would shoot? Sure. The problem with this flip it strategy, exploiting the naivety of a shotgun shooter that recognizes beretta as a brand, is that the current seller is trying that same approach, only asking $37,500 rather than the sellable value (overpriced to me) of $12,000. That is a bare-nothing, likely unregulated (see the wedge still there?) border engraved beretta. And it has long barrels that make it harder to market.

For $37,500 or anything over $30,000 you're able to get into truly exceptional double rifles. I sent you a link of what you can get at that type of pricepoint for illustrative purposes.
Thanks for the PM. Yes, the price seemed quite high.
 
 

 

 

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