Wanted 12 Ga 2 2/1” Brass

gizmo

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Hello all. I recently acquired a 1889 Remington double that has a 2 1/2” chamber. I am looking for 2 1/2” brass hulls that I can load BP rounds to bring this old girl back to life. Mag tech makes them but they are out of stock everywhere in the US. If anyone has some they are willing to part with I would greatly appreciate the opportunity to buy them. Thanks, Erik
 
My God! I just looked at 12 gauge 2-1/2” shells on Buffalo Arms! $35 each if you buy 5 or more!
 
Hello all. I recently acquired a 1889 Remington double that has a 2 1/2” chamber. I am looking for 2 1/2” brass hulls that I can load BP rounds to bring this old girl back to life. Mag tech makes them but they are out of stock everywhere in the US. If anyone has some they are willing to part with I would greatly appreciate the opportunity to buy them. Thanks, Erik

@gizmo

the 2.5” mag tech are speciality and really for loading bore rifles or other odd projects.

for your gun, the lowest service pressure and cleanest approach is to dispense with the black powder in favor of modern powders in a plastic or paper hull. You can trim them down easily and Ballistic specialties sells all the wads, overshot cards, fiber, and anything else you can dream up.

The pressure curve of black powder is actually more extreme than modern powders and of course it’s caustic. I’ve shot hundreds of thousands of rounds in black powder only proofed guns using a 5800-6200psi 3/4ounce to 7/8 ounce lead payload. If the wall thickness says it’s safe for a black powder shell, you’ll be just fine for a 2.5” modern powder shell at moderate pressures.

There, I saved you a fortune and a lot of needless wear and tear on your gun.
 
@gizmo

the 2.5” mag tech are speciality and really for loading bore rifles or other odd projects.

for your gun, the lowest service pressure and cleanest approach is to dispense with the black powder in favor of modern powders in a plastic or paper hull. You can trim them down easily and Ballistic specialties sells all the wads, overshot cards, fiber, and anything else you can dream up.

The pressure curve of black powder is actually more extreme than modern powders and of course it’s caustic. I’ve shot hundreds of thousands of rounds in black powder only proofed guns using a 5800-6200psi 3/4ounce to 7/8 ounce lead payload. If the wall thickness says it’s safe for a black powder shell, you’ll be just fine for a 2.5” modern powder shell at moderate pressures.

There, I saved you a fortune and a lot of needless wear and tear on your gun.
I’ll give that a try as well but I actually bought the gun to specifically reload bp rounds. I have several bp guns and really like shooting the originals as intended. I have 2 577/450 Martini Henry, one British infantry and one ZA stamped Boer version. Both I have to form cases from 24 ga brass and make into the appropriate case. I also have some traditional muzzle loaders as well as inlines. It’s kinda a thing for me to get to shoot originals with bp loads. Brass shotshell cases were made by all major ammo companies for shotshell back in The day and we’re very popular as a result of durability and ease of reload. I would prefer using them as I have no intentions of crimping the ends and should get a jillion rounds life out of each provided I take care of the brass. I’m mainly looking to load some upland loads and some bismuth loads for taking it goose hunting occasionally.
 
two boxs of 25 each, new in the box 12ga 2.5" magtech unprimed brass brass.100.00 including postage in the states.
Perfect. I am out of town this week but as soon as I get back I will mail you a check. Please pm me the address to send it as well as who to make it to and I will pm back my shipping address.
 
I agree with Roothawk.

I also have shot thousands of low pressure, smokeless powder loads through Damascus steel barreled Parkers, LC Smith, Lefever and other antique shotguns.

High quality Damascus of proper wall thickness is not the boogie man that ammo and gun makers claimed it was.

PM me for low pressure loading data.
 
I agree with Roothawk.

I also have shot thousands of low pressure, smokeless powder loads through Damascus steel barreled Parkers, LC Smith, Lefever and other antique shotguns.

High quality Damascus of proper wall thickness is not the boogie man that ammo and gun makers claimed it was.

PM me for low pressure loading data.
Listen to @rookhawk and @Mark A Ouellette

Probably half of my shotguns have 2.5" chambers and half of those are fine Damascus. While I currently don't have your specific gun (though I have owned a couple over the years) those guns include several originally proofed for BP loads. Along with myself, many friends and colleagues use such guns in Virginia for everything from clays to driven pheasant. Many of us competed with them at the Southern SxS.

All of us used low pressure nitro loads which we either loaded ourselves or purchased by the case from RST https://www.rstshells.com/ I have no idea what their current availability might be. None of us used brass cases in such guns, and neither would have the original owner of your Model 89 Remington. By the 1870's brass shells were being replaced quickly by paper shells. By the 1890's they were curiosities in the attic. Moreover, it is a rare SxS that avoids some corrosion damage when used very much with actual BP.

No safe loads from that gun, BP or nitro, will be adequate for geese. During that period the 2 7/8" 10 bore firing a 1 1/4 ounce load was the reigning light waterfowl gun.
 
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I agree with these guys. I had an O frame Greener with 2 1/2” chambers when I lived in grouse and woodcock country. With the correct loads it was perfectly safe.
 
Listen to @rookhawk and @Mark A Ouellette

Probably half of my shotguns have 2.5" chambers and half of those are fine Damascus. While I currently don't have your specific gun (though I have owned a couple over the years) those guns include several originally proofed for BP loads. Along with myself, many friends and colleagues use such guns in Virginia for everything from clays to driven pheasant. Many of us competed with them at the Southern SxS.

All of us used low pressure nitro loads which we either loaded ourselves or purchased by the case from RST https://www.rstshells.com/ I have no idea what their current availability might be. None of us used brass cases in such guns, and neither would have the original owner of your Model 89 Remington. By the 1870's brass shells were being replaced quickly by paper shells. By the 1890's they were curiosities in the attic. Moreover, it is a rare SxS that avoids some corrosion damage when used very much with actual BP.

No safe loads from that gun, BP or nitro, will be adequate for geese. During that period the 2 7/8" 10 bore firing a 1 1/4 ounce load was the reigning light waterfowl gun.

Adding to that, the Magtech are goofy shells. Don't quote me on what odd primer they use, but it isn't a shotshell primer. I think maybe small rifle primer? And you have to use a host of strange fiber and card wads of 13 bore, 11 bore, and other configurations. They are a low pressure rifle cartridge for very odd paradox/fosbury/bore rifle applications. They are also really weak, paper thin things. If you owned say a Lancaster Oval Bore 20-bore rifle, these brass shells would be what you'd need for reasonable performance. God save the world when they cease production.
 
I have shot dozens of Canada geese with 1 3/8 once of Nice Shot, Rem SP-10 wad, over Longshot powder in 10 gauge Damascus Parkers and an LC Smith or two. I even shot a couple with my Henry Atkin fluid steel 10 gauge from 1894. Shot a few ducks too along with those geese.

One could kill ducks over dekes easy enough with 1 1/8 oz of Nice Shot at 1100 fps. A better wingshot than me could do well pass shooting with that load.

The trouble is finding legal, dense shot like Nice Shot. Bismuth is okay but it's not as dense as Nice Shot.
 
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Adding to that, the Magtech are goofy shells. Don't quote me on what odd primer they use, but it isn't a shotshell primer. I think maybe small rifle primer? And you have to use a host of strange fiber and card wads of 13 bore, 11 bore, and other configurations. They are a low pressure rifle cartridge for very odd paradox/fosbury/bore rifle applications. They are also really weak, paper thin things. If you owned say a Lancaster Oval Bore 20-bore rifle, these brass shells would be what you'd need for reasonable performance. God save the world when they cease production.
They take a large pistol primer for shotshell loads.
 
I’ve looked high and low for paper shells but all seem to be out of stock everywhere. I agree that low pressure nitro loads are perfectly safe in a Damascus gun. I also agree that BP is corrosive over time but…… if one cares properly for a BP gun corrosion isn’t an issue. They must be cleaned immediately after use and it’s a pretty good idea to do it the following day again as well. I’ve shot BP guns since I was 13 years old and every one of my BP’s is still in very very good shape. I have 3 original BP’s all military metallic cartridge rifles that have had untold numbers of rounds through them and are still in great condition because I take care of them.
I truly appreciate all of the feedback and help. I also understand the intentions behind many of the comments and I am super grateful for them but it really boils down to this, I want to shoot BP loads out of it as it is a nostalgia thing and I enjoy it. No different than my trap door or Martini Henry’s all of which can be safely shot with smokeless light pressure loads as well or often times better than BP. It’s just not the same.
I likely will switch over to paper hulls once they become readily available. My intention is to start with light square loads and start out hunting upland. I am an avid waterfowler and at some point will indeed invest in a old 10 ga to shoot waterfowl with BP but for now shooting decoying geese at 15 yards with a light load of #2 bismuth will do the job if I am patient and pic the appropriate opportunity. I hunt geese, cranes, and ducks very frequently both DIY with my own gear as well as with friends who are outfitter's. I am certain that as long as I don’t push the gun beyond safe limits and push shots beyond ethical limits it will work out just fine. When the birds are working properly and set at 15 yards shooting them in the head with a light load will pillow them just as good as any.
 
Might be a cool read for some of you. I find it interesting that Winchester didn’t sell loaded all brass shells until 1934 and even then it was special order. I certainly do not wish to start a mud slinging match and freely admit that most of you know far more about shotguns and shot shells than I do but…. All brass shot shells remained well into the 20th century and were fairly common. I remember my grandfather had some in his shooting bag when I was a kid. He was an avid upland hunter up until the late 70’s early 80’s. He quit hunting after his first bout with cancer in the 80’s though we still shot a bit from time to time.
 
I’m thinking 2 1/2 Dram of Swiss 1.5F under 1 Oz of shot will be a good starting point. That should be roughly 68.35 grain. I would think that would make for a nice light target load to start out. I am certainly open to suggestions.
 
This will be a fun project Erik. I have a Baker Batavia 12ga with twist steel barrels, and have used it since I was a kid for waterfowl. Initially with factory smokeless loads. Since I became a BP shooter, I have used Winchester (repro) 2.5" brass shells and some Magtech for reloading. A friend modified the primer pockets in the Magtech's so I can use 209 primers. I have shot both ducks and geese by confining my shots to under 35 yards. I have not loaded Rotometal Bismuth, but see no reason why it wouldn't do almost as well. At 9.6 gm/cc it is pretty dense. Case capacity is not an issue, as a 2.5" brass case is the same length as an unfired 3" magnum modern case. You have a lot of experience in this area, so you know that usually, you can get all of the odd-ball fiber and felt wads that you need from Ball. Products. I use hefty wad pressure, seal the top with water-glass. I have some original shells from about 1890 from UK. They are loaded with 1 3/8 oz of T shot (AAA). One AH member has shot a lot of geese with this load. Good luck, good shooting............................................FW Bill
 
This will be a fun project Erik. I have a Baker Batavia 12ga with twist steel barrels, and have used it since I was a kid for waterfowl. Initially with factory smokeless loads. Since I became a BP shooter, I have used Winchester (repro) 2.5" brass shells and some Magtech for reloading. A friend modified the primer pockets in the Magtech's so I can use 209 primers. I have shot both ducks and geese by confining my shots to under 35 yards. I have not loaded Rotometal Bismuth, but see no reason why it wouldn't do almost as well. At 9.6 gm/cc it is pretty dense. Case capacity is not an issue, as a 2.5" brass case is the same length as an unfired 3" magnum modern case. You have a lot of experience in this area, so you know that usually, you can get all of the odd-ball fiber and felt wads that you need from Ball. Products. I use hefty wad pressure, seal the top with water-glass. I have some original shells from about 1890 from UK. They are loaded with 1 3/8 oz of T shot (AAA). One AH member has shot a lot of geese with this load. Good luck, good shooting............................................FW Bill
Thanks buddy, I appreciate it. Once this old girl is up and running you should come down and hunt some upland birds with me using BP guns.
 
We'll do it!..................................Bill
 
I wish I had seen this the other day. I posted 10x 2.5" 12 gauge RMC milled brass hulls that take shotshell primers and 12 gauge components on gunbroker for $65.... they might still be up there if you want to bid on them... if they didn't have a bid I would pull them down and offer them to you.
 
I wish I had seen this the other day. I posted 10x 2.5" 12 gauge RMC milled brass hulls that take shotshell primers and 12 gauge components on gunbroker for $65.... they might still be up there if you want to bid on them... if they didn't have a bid I would pull them down and offer them to you.
Story of my life buddy and thank you. Several forum members have been able to help me with my needs. If you pull it down holler I may still yet be interested. Thank you.
 

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