US Fish and Wildlife withdraws 17 enhancement findings for elephant and lion

[UNT2007]

http://**NOT**PERMITTED**.redpointr...ws-17-enhancement-findings-for-elephant-lion/

Note the header in gray.

The memo is attached below.

 

[sierraone]

Not a potential elephant hunter here. But for those of you who are, go hunt now and spend a lot less money. Have fiberglass copies of the tusks made. Have them sent to your home when finished and be happy. Then plan on another hunt with all the money you saved by not importing real ivory!

 

[johnnyblues]

Well that's sucks. I'm a potential elephant hunter. Guess if I decide to go next year it will have to be SA as I would really like to import the ivory. But maybe my mind will change by the time I m ready. I assume we can still import from SA?

 

[Hogpatrol]

Who in the FK do these bureaucrats think they are? The world's wildlife police? They need to be defunded and reconstitured to protect ONLY American FISH AND WILDLIFE. They have absolutely no business or authority in backdooring other countries' wildlife policies.
It's just another example of how much control the U.S. government has over people's lives and it's getting worse by the day.
Yes, I know. We get the government we vote for.

 

[johnnyblues]

Who in the FK do these bureaucrats think they are? The world's wildlife police? They need to be defunded and reconstitured to protect ONLY American FISH AND WILDLIFE. They have absolutely no business or authority in backdooring other countries' wildlife policies.
It's just another example of how much control the U.S. government has over people's lives and it's getting worse by the day.
Yes, I know. We get the government we vote for.

So right brother! Its disgusting how we think we can oversee wildlife in other countries. Goes to show you just how badly in the wrong direction this country continues to move. I for one am starting to feel Trump is slowly becoming a swamp rat! He was so buddy buddy with the NRA and sportsman, now he is showing his real feelings for hunters. I m sure he doesent approve of his sons once being hunters.

 

[sierraone]

Well that's sucks. I'm a potential elephant hunter. Guess if I decide to go next year it will have to be SA as I would really like to import the ivory. But maybe my mind will change by the time I m ready. I assume we can still import from SA?

Hi Johnny. I read this as ANY elephant importation, regardless of country, but we need one of our more brainy members to give their opinion.

 

[johnnyblues]

Looks like from the memo importation of ivory from Zim is still a problem. But if I am correct SA is ok to import.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Here's the problem and don't think these nazis aren't using this subterfuge to destroy hunting: Advance planning!
How can anyone plan a hunt? The regulations change with the weather. Planning an elephant or lion hunt in 2019 or 2020 or maybe further out? Good luck! By the time you launch, it could be illegal to import from your venue's country.
Again, totally defunded and reconstituted or repurposed is the only answer to this out of control agency.

 

[Pheroze]

Here's the problem and don't think these nazis aren't using this subterfuge to destroy hunting: Advance planning!
How can anyone plan a hunt? The regulations change with the weather. Planning an elephant or lion hunt in 2019 or 2020 or maybe further out? Good luck! By the time you launch, it could be illegal to import from your venue's country.
Again, totally defunded and reconstituted or repurposed is the only answer to this out of control agency.

The memo seems to indicate that the only thing stopping case by case assessments of elephant is the directive issued by the President.

"Permits for elephant also must wait for President Trump to lift his orders against issuing any importation permits. Currently, no elephant permits are being reviewed."

That directive is the biggest win for antihunters ever.

 

[wesheltonj]

Who in the FK do these bureaucrats think they are? The world's wildlife police? They need to be defunded and reconstitured to protect ONLY American FISH AND WILDLIFE. They have absolutely no business or authority in backdooring other countries' wildlife policies.
It's just another example of how much control the U.S. government has over people's lives and it's getting worse by the day.
Yes, I know. We get the government we vote for.

Well they do have the authority to "backdoor" in CITES the importing countries can impose regulations/restrictions greater then the exporting country, that's written into the treaty.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Well they do have the authority to "backdoor" in CITES the importing countries can impose regulations/restrictions greater then the exporting country, that's written into the treaty.

Well then that treat, like NAFTA, needs to be re-negotiated and that rule eliminated. At any rate, no country has the right to regulate wildlife in another country.

 

[Scott Slough]

Well then that treat, like NAFTA, needs to be re-negotiated and that rule eliminated. At any rate, no country has the right to regulate wildlife in another country.

US isn't regulating hunting on other countries...it is regulating the importation from other countries!

If you want to affect the conversation one needs to get their facts correct.

 

[Pheroze]

US isn't regulating hunting on other countries...it is regulating the importation from other countries!

If you want to affect the conversation one needs to get their facts correct.

The President put the ban in place because he is opposed to elephant hunting in a foreign jurisdiction. How is this not trying to influence the policies of another country?

 

[Hogpatrol]

US isn't regulating hunting on other countries...it is regulating the importation from other countries!

If you want to affect the conversation one needs to get their facts correct.

Semantics, they ARE de facto regulating it through treaties and importation restrictions.

 

[Scott Slough]

There is NOTHING keeping any US citizen from hunting elephants and lions in foreign countries...there is however a restriction on importing. The difference between those two points is NOT semantics..it is the facts.

If you oppose the import ban...as I and probably most of AH do...then argue against the import ban. When you argue that the US is Banning the hunting of elephants and lions...absent the facts...you make it easier for the powers that be to ignore you and make it harder for those who are working on your side to effect change.

 

[Hogpatrol]

There is NOTHING keeping any US citizen from hunting elephants and lions in foreign countries...there is however a restriction on importing. The difference between those two points is NOT semantics..it is the facts.

If you oppose the import ban...as I and probably most of AH do...then argue against the import ban. When you argue that the US is Banning the hunting of elephants and lions...absent the facts...you make it easier for the powers that be to ignore you and make it harder for those who are working on your side to effect change.

Nothing? You're kidding? Not being able to return your trophy back to your home country? You call that nothing? Get real and quit being an apologist for USF&W.
Call it what you want, it's de facto regulation. Look up the definition. As far as those working on our side, I don't see much in the way of results. I have contacted my Representatives and Senators on the importation issue and explained the ban's effect on employment, food source and foreign exchange benefits to the local populaces. So far, out of three contacts, I have received one return communication.

 

[johnnyblues]

According to Marius of KMG safaris ivory from SA is importable

 

[wesheltonj]

I don't think you are going to see any results until the 2nd term of Trump. Why, just look at the percentage of hunters of the US population, it's small. Next, look at the number of US hunters that hunt in Africa, even smaller. And finally, look at the subset of US hunters that hunt in Africa and hunt Elephant - a "double hand full" at best. Now, look at the percentage of the US population opposed to elephant hunting. Which group of voters are you going to cater to, assuming you want to be re-elected? And that's the problem with majority rule.

The best we can do in the meantime, is work to keep the importation of the balance of the animals available for importation and try to influence those that will listen (and good luck with that) the benefits of regulated hunting. And I say good luck, all one need to do is watch the WWF Snow Leopard advertisement for donations, where they have hunting as poaching, And the WWF is supportive of regulated hunting.

 

[Scott Slough]

Nothing? You're kidding? Not being able to return your trophy back to your home country? You call that nothing? Get real and quit being an apologist for USF&W.
Call it what you want, it's de facto regulation. Look up the definition. As far as those working on our side, I don't see much in the way of results. I have contacted my Representatives and Senators on the importation issue and explained the ban's effect on employment, food source and foreign exchange benefits to the local populaces. So far, out of three contacts, I have received one return communication.

De facto is slang for "without de facts"

 

[Hogpatrol]

De facto is slang for "without de facts"

Good one! We'll just have to disagree on this one.