United Airlines gun permit confusion

Therack

AH enthusiast
Joined
Feb 25, 2016
Messages
306
Reaction score
386
Location
Nebraska
Media
35
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
NRA PF DU NWTF
I recently flew to Johannesburg from Denver with United Airlines. While checking my gun at the ticket counter I encountered some problems with the ticket counter personnel. The lady who originally tried to check my gun was confused about the rules and had to refer to Uniteds policy about sending a gun to SA. She stated that I needed the South Africa permit, SAP 520, to leave the US. I informed her that I didn't need the permit to leave the US, I needed it to enter SA. She called over a second ticket agent that had to read the rules and said that I needed the SA permit to leave the US. I then asked for a supervisor. The supervisor came over and read the same thing on the computer screen and said that I had to apply for the SAP 520 in advance and needed it to fly to SA. I kept telling them I didn't need the permit to leave the US and that a third party had my permit in SA and they were meeting me at the airport to clear customs. In the end they checked my gun and I went on my way. Lesson learned is that I should have had a copy of my SAP 520 even if it's not required to leave the US.
 
Thanks for the heads up. Idiots... I'll be flying out of Denver on United in 5 weeks..... So I'll bring a copy with me. Bruce
 
I had a terrible time with United on a trip from Dulles to New Zealand, they said it was impossible for them to transfer a gun in Los Angeles from United to Air NZ, they also refused to send it to LA and let me handle the transfer. After 90 minutes of arguing and showing my NZ permit to multiple layers of Supervisors they decided to send it to L A and then it was my problem from there. That, of course, is what I had suggested over an hour before. I also had exactly the same problem with American and Qantas from Dulles to Australia, eventually the same solution. Knowing that inter-airline transfers of firearms can be tricky, I paid extra to Air NZ and Qantas to allegedly fly on their airlines the entire way for both trips. Unfortunately when I got to the airport each time the first leg was actually flown by United and American.
 
I may be mistaken as I've only done the pre-approved permit once. But as I remember it, the permit is not actually fully pre-approved. You still go to the SAPS office and the rifle(s) serial number(s) are verified against the paperwork that is otherwise completed and ready to go. If the S/Ns match it is at this point the permit is now approved and you're on your way. So I guess if you're using a permit service you could ask for a copy of the 520 as it will be upon arrival, but what is the point?

Perhaps Henry@riflepermits.com can add to this discussion? But this is just one more reason, and I didn't need anymore, that I will never fly on United if I can help it.
 
I would show up with the SAPS requirements in hand and educate them about the law in SA. Then tell them to check my firearm and let me get on with my day.
 
If I handed the 14 page SAP 520 document to the lady at the ticket counter do you really think she would know what she was looking at?
 
If I handed the 14 page SAP 520 document to the lady at the ticket counter do you really think she would know what she was looking at?

She would not know a damn thing. I would put the onus on her to prove me wrong. (I am cranky today and do not have time for these dim whits)

I have dealt with the same issue (unskilled CSR's) in regard to the IATA guideline on ammo weights.
I read the policy and it states the ammunition weight, not the ammo and container combined is restricted to 5kg's.
The twits have tried to state to me, as any good typical bureaucrat likes to, that it is combined weight. I pull out the policy statement and provide an english lesson. I typically do this long before check in and have the note on the file. I assume I am going to be dealing with someone with little knowledge and total reliance on a screen shot.
Some things just irritate me enough to address it and not give way. I think they call it stubborn in some circles.
 
Therack, I had the same problem with United back in June (out of Denver too). I was very frustrated because it was my first trip.
The lady and her supervisor said I also needed the original SAP520 paperwork (I wondered how she could tell the difference in the color photocopy?) I was about ready to cancel and demand my money back because they didn't inform me of any of this ahead of time. Luckily I was with a group and they had been through this before.
Why would anyone fly to Africa if they're not hunting?
She finally gave in.
I think United needs to do some training, or informing ahead of time what they think one needs to fly with a gun.
The customs agent (homeland security) I got my US return papers from told me to expect some confusion, but I thought she meant returning through US customs.
 
I would hand them this page in print and direct them to the link and beat them over the head with it.

http://www.saps.gov.za/services/flash/firearms/importation.php

How to obtain an temporary import, in-transit or export permit
An application by a person that is a non SA citizen and not the holder of a permanent residence permit for a temporary, in-transit or export import permit in respect of a firearm or ammunition not licenced under the Firearms Control Act, 2000 (Act No 60 of 2000), must in terms of the Act, submitted on a SAPS 520 “Application for a multiple import or export permit / temporary import or export permit / permanent import or export permit / in-transit permit for personal use” form either to the Central Firearms Control Register, Pretoria, South Africa , directly or to the Designated Firearms Officer at the place designated as a port of entry in terms of the Immigration Act 2002 (Act No 13 of 2002) where the applicant will enter into the Republic of South Africa.
 
I may be mistaken as I've only done the pre-approved permit once. But as I remember it, the permit is not actually fully pre-approved. You still go to the SAPS office and the rifle(s) serial number(s) are verified against the paperwork that is otherwise completed and ready to go. If the S/Ns match it is at this point the permit is now approved and you're on your way. So I guess if you're using a permit service you could ask for a copy of the 520 as it will be upon arrival, but what is the point?

Perhaps Henry@riflepermits.com can add to this discussion? But this is just one more reason, and I didn't need anymore, that I will never fly on United if I can help it.

You are correct sir. When you arrive in South Africa the @riflepermits.com rep meets you and takes you to the SAPs office where they verify the serial numbers on your rifles.
 
Therack, I had the same problem with United back in June (out of Denver too). I was very frustrated because it was my first trip.
The lady and her supervisor said I also needed the original SAP520 paperwork (I wondered how she could tell the difference in the color photocopy?) I was about ready to cancel and demand my money back because they didn't inform me of any of this ahead of time. Luckily I was with a group and they had been through this before.
Why would anyone fly to Africa if they're not hunting?
She finally gave in.
I think United needs to do some training, or informing ahead of time what they think one needs to fly with a gun.
The customs agent (homeland security) I got my US return papers from told me to expect some confusion, but I thought she meant returning through US customs.

Can not stand United airlines. They lost my business years ago. However, I will say that some folks at Delta don't know the rules either. That is why I let Vince in Kansas City know when I am departing and he sees to it that either he is at the counter when I check in or he schools someone up on how to check in guns.
 
I would show up with the SAPS requirements in hand and educate them about the law in SA. Then tell them to check my firearm and let me get on with my day.
Ha ha ha ha!! LOL! "Educate them".... Oh, sorry. I thought you were making a joke.:ROFLMAO::D
 
I recently flew to Johannesburg from Denver with United Airlines. While checking my gun at the ticket counter I encountered some problems with the ticket counter personnel. The lady who originally tried to check my gun was confused about the rules and had to refer to Uniteds policy about sending a gun to SA. She stated that I needed the South Africa permit, SAP 520, to leave the US. I informed her that I didn't need the permit to leave the US, I needed it to enter SA. She called over a second ticket agent that had to read the rules and said that I needed the SA permit to leave the US. I then asked for a supervisor. The supervisor came over and read the same thing on the computer screen and said that I had to apply for the SAP 520 in advance and needed it to fly to SA. I kept telling them I didn't need the permit to leave the US and that a third party had my permit in SA and they were meeting me at the airport to clear customs. In the end they checked my gun and I went on my way. Lesson learned is that I should have had a copy of my SAP 520 even if it's not required to leave the US.

fly Delta and you won't have any problems
 
She would not know a damn thing. I would put the onus on her to prove me wrong. (I am cranky today and do not have time for these dim whits)

I have dealt with the same issue (unskilled CSR's) in regard to the IATA guideline on ammo weights.
I read the policy and it states the ammunition weight, not the ammo and container combined is restricted to 5kg's.
The twits have tried to state to me, as any good typical bureaucrat likes to, that it is combined weight. I pull out the policy statement and provide an english lesson. I typically do this long before check in and have the note on the file. I assume I am going to be dealing with someone with little knowledge and total reliance on a screen shot.
Some things just irritate me enough to address it and not give way. I think they call it stubborn in some circles.

never argue with idiots they will always bring you down to their level and beat you with experience
 
fly Delta and you won't have any problems

I wouldn't go that far....

I've had challenges with them too, because. ..Wait for it.... Someone didnt know the rules....

And @PHOENIX PHIL I agree that the "previous approved" doesn't really mean much, so I've quit doing it. As near as I can tell it just means they know your paperwork is filled out properly. I guess in theory it could save time, but the last 2 trips I've waited longer for rifles to get brought up than I have for the paperwork to be checked.
 
I had the same problem with Air Canada last year. I think it stems from an IATA manual which outlines the firearms rules in various countries. For South Africa, it says you need a permit to bring a firearm into the country. Well, of course that's entirely correct, but that's not the same thing as saying that the permit has to be issued in advance.

I had my email from AfricaSky stating that the permit had been issued and would be ready for me upon arrival. That seemed to make them happy.

This is important since, as has been pointed out, the permit isn't actually issued until the firearms are checked at the Firearms Office in JNB.

There are three rules which come out of all of this:

1. Get to the airport early. If you have to argue, it will take some time. I am good at this one.

2. Bring as much paperwork as you can. Don't worry that it's meaningless. Wave it in front of people and say in an authoritative voice "See, it says here I don't need the permit" Or "See, it says here the permit is issued upon arrival" or my personal favourite (because it's worked) "See, I have an export permit from the Government of Canada, which they don't issue unless you are good to go in [insert name of destination here]." I'm good at this rule.

3. Stay calm and don't get mad. I am not so good at this rule.
 
I wouldn't go that far....

I've had challenges with them too, because. ..Wait for it.... Someone didnt know the rules....

And @PHOENIX PHIL I agree that the "previous approved" doesn't really mean much, so I've quit doing it. As near as I can tell it just means they know your paperwork is filled out properly. I guess in theory it could save time, but the last 2 trips I've waited longer for rifles to get brought up than I have for the paperwork to be checked.

Ran into that with them in Montreal but they called someone who did quickly and it was rapidly resolved. Plus they have never lost my luggage unlike Air Crapper who employ a patented stealth technology for losing luggage
 
I had the same problem with Air Canada last year. I think it stems from an IATA manual which outlines the firearms rules in various countries. For South Africa, it says you need a permit to bring a firearm into the country. Well, of course that's entirely correct, but that's not the same thing as saying that the permit has to be issued in advance.

I had my email from AfricaSky stating that the permit had been issued and would be ready for me upon arrival. That seemed to make them happy.

This is important since, as has been pointed out, the permit isn't actually issued until the firearms are checked at the Firearms Office in JNB.

There are three rules which come out of all of this:

1. Get to the airport early. If you have to argue, it will take some time. I am good at this one.

2. Bring as much paperwork as you can. Don't worry that it's meaningless. Wave it in front of people and say in an authoritative voice "See, it says here I don't need the permit" Or "See, it says here the permit is issued upon arrival" or my personal favourite (because it's worked) "See, I have an export permit from the Government of Canada, which they don't issue unless you are good to go in [insert name of destination here]." I'm good at this rule.

3. Stay calm and don't get mad. I am not so good at this rule.

I refuse to fly Air Crapper besides their "we are still government" crappy attitude they charge $50 each flight for guns. they can eat my shorts
 
I recently flew to Johannesburg from Denver with United Airlines. While checking my gun at the ticket counter I encountered some problems with the ticket counter personnel. The lady who originally tried to check my gun was confused about the rules and had to refer to Uniteds policy about sending a gun to SA. She stated that I needed the South Africa permit, SAP 520, to leave the US. I informed her that I didn't need the permit to leave the US, I needed it to enter SA. She called over a second ticket agent that had to read the rules and said that I needed the SA permit to leave the US. I then asked for a supervisor. The supervisor came over and read the same thing on the computer screen and said that I had to apply for the SAP 520 in advance and needed it to fly to SA. I kept telling them I didn't need the permit to leave the US and that a third party had my permit in SA and they were meeting me at the airport to clear customs. In the end they checked my gun and I went on my way. Lesson learned is that I should have had a copy of my SAP 520 even if it's not required to leave the US.
Complete insanity. Are you the first hunter to fly to Johannesburg from Denver?
 

Forum statistics

Threads
53,617
Messages
1,131,224
Members
92,672
Latest member
LuciaWains
 

 

 

Latest posts

Latest profile posts

Impact shots from the last hunt

Early morning Impala hunt, previous link was wrong video

Headshot on jackal this morning

Mature Eland Bull taken in Tanzania, at 100 yards, with 375 H&H, 300gr, Federal Premium Expanding bullet.

20231012_145809~2.jpg
 
Top