Tungsten buckshot for leopard follow up?

[mikesheree]

I feel some of the desire to use a shotgun comes from the idea that you have a wider margin of error because of the spread of the pellets at the distance of expected use, that is the same thinking that people use to justify a shotgun in a close quarters scenario for defense. A shotgun at 10 feet, or whatever range you envision your encounter with a cat charge, is the same as a rifle shot. They make one hole or something VERY close to one hole. You still have to have precision in your shooting, and after 1000s of rounds of shotgun practice, I am still less precise with a shotgun than a rifle.

I have never had to make a shot on a charging cat, and I hope that trend continues for the rest of my life, but if it doesn't, I want to have a rifle with a red dot.

You are exactly correct in that within a couple/few yards you get one large hole. The difference comes with the terminal ballistics. Those 9, 12 or 15 00/000 pellets will fan out upon entry into the animal, each perusing modestly different paths, and cause more damage than a single slug or bullet path. I’ve never necropsies a shot cat but I base this on what I have seen in human torsos in my capacity as a forensic pathologist and in boar hogs as a hunter. With the advent of tungsten buck shot, even the valid concern regarding the penetration (as opposed to a bullet or slug) of the individual shot balls has been obviated.

 

[IvW]

Eish....I will rather refrain from commenting....
Now if a TSS slug was availible I would be all ears.....not for humans or hogs....for leopard follow up.....
I have patched up and seen patched up peoole who got chainsawed by wounded leopard when buckshot failed to stop the cat or do anything to it to be honest....round balls...under the skin and no penetration....
A pissed off wounded leopard charging has amazing thick and strong chest muscles.....you need something that can penetrate that and stop it....lead buckshot of whatever size is not the answer....also does not penetrate the scull..
Need to test this TSS stuff......

 

[mikesheree]

Clearly our experiences differ which is why this type of dialogue is important.

 

[BeeMaa]

Eish....I will rather refrain from commenting....
Now if a TSS slug was availible I would be all ears.....not for humans or hogs....for leopard follow up.....
I have patched up and seen patched up peoole who got chainsawed by wounded leopard when buckshot failed to stop the cat or do anything to it to be honest....round balls...under the skin and no penetration....
A pissed off wounded leopard charging has amazing thick and strong chest muscles.....you need something that can penetrate that and stop it....lead buckshot of whatever size is not the answer....also does not penetrate the scull..
Need to test this TSS stuff......

5 shells cost $61 USD before tax & shipping.

 

[mikesheree]

Indeed. Seems like most good s*** and/or fun s*** is expensive. I will try some on a large boar hog and report back.

 

[Rare Breed]

Given that I could shoot the leopard with a .458 Lott and Nosler Safari ammunition twice for cheaper per round cost, I think this is a non starter.

While I would not use a shotgun on a follow up leopard I at least understand why people would…aiming a rifle at a charging leopard that makes no sound and unbelievable speed makes for a tough follow up shot with a rifle

 

[archer36]

Hevi-Shot only offers the Dead Coyote in loads up to 1 5/8 oz, T shot. Personally, I'd like to see something above 2 oz in BB or T shot for something larger than a coyote.

As for the videos, most of the Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote patterning videos I watched (like the one below) left much to be desired. Maybe it's the firearm/choke combination they are using, but the results were less than stellar. I'd expect more for $10 per shell. It's a firm reminder that you need to pattern your shotgun with the load and choke you plan on using for ANY game animal.

I had a few boxes of Dead Coyote in 3.5" 00 buck. Maybe they stopped making them. I shot a 200 lb buck square on the shoulder at 25 yds. Ruined both shoulders. Penetration was unbelievable. Was using a Patternmaster Long Range choke. I only use it for my third shot at long ranges now.

 

[archer36]

Maybe every one is barking up the wrong tree. A charging Leopard can't hurt what it can't see. Possibly a open choke shotgun with number 8 bird shot put squarely in the eyes would take it off it's intended target. Then you can follow up with a shot from a high caliber rifle. Why use one or the other.

 

[BeeMaa]

Maybe every one is barking up the wrong tree. A charging Leopard can't hurt what it can't see. Possibly a open choke shotgun with number 8 bird shot put squarely in the eyes would take it off it's intended target. Then you can follow up with a shot from a high caliber rifle. Or, employ each for insurance.

You go ahead and bet your life on 8 shot blinding a charging leopard and see where you land.

With the exception of having the client make a proper shot the first time and avoid this entire thread...nothing will be faster, more powerful, more effective or more intuitive than a double rifle with premium softs (in the hands of an experienced PH) for following up on a wounded cat.

I'll put my money on option 2.

 

[Tucketed]

I have never hunted or followed up angry cats but I would bet that a full charge of tungsten buck shot would have no issues on a 160 lb cat at 20 yards coming on strong. If you haven’t tried a tungsten load you should.

 

[archer36]

You go ahead and bet your life on 8 shot blinding a charging leopard and see where you land.

With the exception of having the client make a proper shot the first time and avoid this entire thread...nothing will be faster, more powerful, more effective or more intuitive than a double rifle with premium softs (in the hands of an experienced PH) for following up on a wounded cat.

I'll put my money on option 2.

Never said to ONLY use number 8 shot, but in conjunction with a rifle. Please read my post to the end.

 

[BeeMaa]

Never said to ONLY use number 8 shot, but in conjunction with a rifle. Please read my post to the end.

Right...you have a combination rifle/shotgun chambered in 12 bore (loaded with #8 shot of course) and whichever rifle cartridge you find appropriate for a follow up shot (after blinding the cat with the #8 shot)...in the event you wound a leopard on a safari and happen to bring it with you just in case. Or (as an alternate reality) your gun bearer will toss you your rifle after you have blinded the charging feline with the shotgun, for a finishing shot. Seems entirely reasonable to me.

Yes, I read your entire post. Completely practical.

Best to be practicing with the rifle you plan to use to make sure that first shot hits it's mark. If it happens to not go as planned, do as the PH tells you to....because you are not in charge. Your PH has more concerns than recovery of the trophy. Like the safety of the hunting party.

 

[Forrest Halley]

Right...you have a combination rifle/shotgun chambered in 12 bore (loaded with #8 shot of course) and whichever rifle cartridge you find appropriate for a follow up shot (after blinding the cat with the #8 shot)...in the event you wound a leopard on a safari and happen to bring it with you just in case. Or (as an alternate reality) your gun bearer will toss you your rifle after you have blinded the charging feline with the shotgun, for a finishing shot. Seems entirely reasonable to me.

Yes, I read your entire post. Completely practical.

Best to be practicing with the rifle you plan to use to make sure that first shot hits it's mark. If it happens to not go as planned, do as the PH tells you to....because you are not in charge. Your PH has more concerns than recovery of the trophy. Like the safety of the hunting party.

This strategy is climbing the FAFO curve on a rapid scale.

Perhaps if the weapons were on a drop down menu and selectable via mouse wheel...
Or
We are traveling with a super stealthy fire team...
Or
We just shoot kitty with a hard pushed soft point to begin with and treat it with the respect it deserves...

 

[steve white]

5 shells cost $61 USD before tax & shipping.

View attachment 528237

Still a lot cheaper than stitches

 

[archer36]

Right...you have a combination rifle/shotgun chambered in 12 bore (loaded with #8 shot of course) and whichever rifle cartridge you find appropriate for a follow up shot (after blinding the cat with the #8 shot)...in the event you wound a leopard on a safari and happen to bring it with you just in case. Or (as an alternate reality) your gun bearer will toss you your rifle after you have blinded the charging feline with the shotgun, for a finishing shot. Seems entirely reasonable to me.

Yes, I read your entire post. Completely practical.

Best to be practicing with the rifle you plan to use to make sure that first shot hits it's mark. If it happens to not go as planned, do as the PH tells you to....because you are not in charge. Your PH has more concerns than recovery of the trophy. Like the safety of the hunting party.

Agreed. Just trying to think outside the box.

 

[YancyW]

F it, boys. If I ever have to do a followup, I am using a blowgun.

 

[503]

I think a .22 magnum would be perfect. Low recoil, cheap ammo and it has magnum in the name so it probably has plenty of power.

Cheers

503

 

[BeeMaa]

Agreed. Just trying to think outside the box.

Fair enough.

Sometimes outside the box can be convoluted and complicated. Keeping it simple and (literally) sticking to your gun is the best plan. Do that and listen to the PH and hopefully things work out for the best.

 

[mikesheree]

A bit more anecdotal follow-up for y’all. A week ago monday I shot a 180 lb boar hog at ~10 yards with 12 gauge cylinder bore 000 tungsten buckshot, I shot him, purposely, with a side shot to the head. Wound channels were thru-and- thru and the entire skull was grossly crepitant. It was a floppy, bloody bag of bones.

 

[BeeMaa]

A bit more anecdotal follow-up for y’all. A week ago monday I shot a 180 lb boar hog at ~10 yards with 12 gauge cylinder bore 000 tungsten buckshot, I shot him, purposely, with a side shot to the head. Wound channels were thru-and- thru and the entire skull was grossly crepitant. It was a floppy, bloody bag of bones.

Pics would be nice, for those that don't have a weak stomach.