Threat to African Hunting?

[Stubbleduck]

Trading notes with a South African outfitter I know personally as well as have hunted with him three times.......he says hunt cancellations are running much higher so far this season than usual apparently due to concerns with flight scheduling / changing / costs as well as general concerns with mid east political / conflict issues. Is this likely to become a continuing concern?

 

[LivingTheDream]

If anyone from Europe or America cancels their hunt to Africa because of what is going on in Iran. They didnt reallt want to go that badly in the first place.

 

[Hunt anything]

People seem to panic a little too quickly I believe. I remember hearing about people canceling safaris to South Africa due to the Ebola outbreak in central Africa back in 2014 .

 

[DLSJR]

I’m going to Moz in September and Zambia in November, no plans to cancel either one, but I’ll sure as heck be looking for any additional opportunities that may present themselves while I’m there due to someone else cancelling.

 

[Gerty]

People seem to panic a little too quickly I believe. I remember hearing about people canceling safaris to South Africa due to the Ebola outbreak in central Africa back in 2014 .

If I am not mistaken, during that time there were more cases of Ebola in the USA than in Southern Africa during the same time period.

 

[375Fox]

I think the new 15% VAT in Zimbabwe is cause for concern with new bookings there, but if hunters cancel current trips because they are concerned about potential flight disruptions they were looking for an excuse not to go. I already changed one ticket to Africa this year. It wasn’t that difficult. I think by now everyone knows flying through Middle East could be a gamble. There are other options available.

 

[Dparr]

I leave for Tanzania in 3 weeks through Istanbul. Canceling never crossed my mind. If anyone needs someone to use their deposit for another hunt im your guy!

 

[Hunt anything]

If I am not mistaken, during that time there were more cases of Ebola in the USA than in Southern Africa during the same time period.

Yep, my daughter was at a health camp at Emory University Hospital when they brought that guy in. That event put the wheels in motion for her future. It was work at the CDC or nothing.

 

[Azklmsr]

I see a similar issue in a lot of vacation places. Hawaii is seeing higher cancellations. Cruise lines same.

Uncertainty is not good for discretionary items.

 

[NoStepOnSnek]

When costs of the hunts themselves go up I wonder what some of the reasons are. Obviously there’s travel, government fees, etc that are a different matter. There are certain things that will obviously make operating costs go up, such as fuel prices, inflation and so forth. But when prices are going up “because people will pay them” I feel like it’s not only bad for the community but it can’t be that much better for the outfitters themselves.

In a thread I saw a few days ago it was mentioned that an Alaskan outfitters never raised prices because it wasn’t necessary, but was eventually convinced by other outfitters to raise them because he could. The thought process being that instead of booking 20 hunters you could make the same amount of money booking 5 who would pay the insane amount.

Is it not better for outfitters to have a larger clientele to cater to? If 1 out of 20 cancels, that’s a lot larger hit than if 1 out of 5 cancels. And someone spending $100k on a hunt probably isn’t in a financial situation where losing a deposit affects him.

With the attack on hunters in American media, it’s always highlighted about the cost of the trip and that the guy was wealthy in an attempt to dehumanize whoever is being highlighted in the article. It’s not seen as Average Joe on trip of a lifetime, it’s portrayed as some rich asshole who loves slaughtering animals because he’s wealthy (which to be fair is another problem altogether).

It seems to me that there has to be a happy medium where outfits are still profitable but the prices don’t exclude guys who are passionate about hunting and conservation. Maybe a few big name outfits and taxidermy studios try to set an example and drop prices. Airlines and governments aren’t gonna make it easier on hunters, so we have to help ourselves.

I could be missing something, but there’s got to be some way to save it for ourselves and future generations

 

[JPbowhunter]

When costs of the hunts themselves go up I wonder what some of the reasons are. Obviously there’s travel, government fees, etc that are a different matter. There are certain things that will obviously make operating costs go up, such as fuel prices, inflation and so forth. But when prices are going up “because people will pay them” I feel like it’s not only bad for the community but it can’t be that much better for the outfitters themselves.

In a thread I saw a few days ago it was mentioned that an Alaskan outfitters never raised prices because it wasn’t necessary, but was eventually convinced by other outfitters to raise them because he could. The thought process being that instead of booking 20 hunters you could make the same amount of money booking 5 who would pay the insane amount.

Is it not better for outfitters to have a larger clientele to cater to? If 1 out of 20 cancels, that’s a lot larger hit than if 1 out of 5 cancels. And someone spending $100k on a hunt probably isn’t in a financial situation where losing a deposit affects him.

With the attack on hunters in American media, it’s always highlighted about the cost of the trip and that the guy was wealthy in an attempt to dehumanize whoever is being highlighted in the article. It’s not seen as Average Joe on trip of a lifetime, it’s portrayed as some rich asshole who loves slaughtering animals because he’s wealthy (which to be fair is another problem altogether).

It seems to me that there has to be a happy medium where outfits are still profitable but the prices don’t exclude guys who are passionate about hunting and conservation. Maybe a few big name outfits and taxidermy studios try to set an example and drop prices. Airlines and governments aren’t gonna make it easier on hunters, so we have to help ourselves.

I could be missing something, but there’s got to be some way to save it for ourselves and future generations

I won’t name the outfit but there was an Australian guide who in 2019, quoted me $5000aud (~$3500usd) for a buff hunt. He’s now broken into the US market and the price for the same hunt is around $15,000usd.

I had another Australian outfitter quote me, a fellow Australian, in USD.

I’m sure outfitters would prefer passionate and capable hunters but if the choice is between them and some guy who can’t hunt but can pay twice as much, that’s the direction they’ll go.

I can’t see a few extra cancelations affecting things short term, let alone long term.

 

[Muskox]

I won’t name the outfit but there was an Australian guide who in 2019, quoted me $5000aud (~$3500usd) for a buff hunt. He’s now broken into the US market and the price for the same hunt is around $15,000usd.

I had another Australian outfitter quote me, a fellow Australian, in USD.

I’m sure outfitters would prefer passionate and capable hunters but if the choice is between them and some guy who can’t hunt but can pay twice as much, that’s the direction they’ll go.

I can’t see a few extra cancelations affecting things short term, let alone long term.

When I lived in Oz and would call from my Canberra number I always got shafted as an American speaking with our accent.

When my Aussie friends would call, I got a much cheaper rate.

 

[mark-hunter]

If anyone from Europe or America cancels their hunt to Africa because of what is going on in Iran. They didnt reallt want to go that badly in the first place.

If your rig is operated by European or American company and works in drilling operations in Persian gulf, or even gets hit by Iranian drone, this may change your safari plans for this year.
Or it does not necessarily need to be a rig, just a western company working there, and your goverment issues warning not to travel there, this may affect your job, and vacation plans.

 

[Tanks]

If anyone from Europe or America cancels their hunt to Africa because of what is going on in Iran. They didnt reallt want to go that badly in the first place.

Could be flight costs. I booked my flight to Windhoek before the war, just checked the flight cost and it is already up $1,100 more than I paid for it.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Could be flight costs. I booked my flight to Windhoek before the war, just checked the flight cost and it is already up $1,100 more than I paid for it.

I am tracking Kyrgyzstan and there isn't a ton of movement yet. I still think that would be shitty to cancel on an outfitter because your flight went up.

 

[DLSJR]

When costs of the hunts themselves go up I wonder what some of the reasons are. Obviously there’s travel, government fees, etc that are a different matter. There are certain things that will obviously make operating costs go up, such as fuel prices, inflation and so forth. But when prices are going up “because people will pay them” I feel like it’s not only bad for the community but it can’t be that much better for the outfitters themselves.

In a thread I saw a few days ago it was mentioned that an Alaskan outfitters never raised prices because it wasn’t necessary, but was eventually convinced by other outfitters to raise them because he could. The thought process being that instead of booking 20 hunters you could make the same amount of money booking 5 who would pay the insane amount.

Is it not better for outfitters to have a larger clientele to cater to? If 1 out of 20 cancels, that’s a lot larger hit than if 1 out of 5 cancels. And someone spending $100k on a hunt probably isn’t in a financial situation where losing a deposit affects him.

With the attack on hunters in American media, it’s always highlighted about the cost of the trip and that the guy was wealthy in an attempt to dehumanize whoever is being highlighted in the article. It’s not seen as Average Joe on trip of a lifetime, it’s portrayed as some rich asshole who loves slaughtering animals because he’s wealthy (which to be fair is another problem altogether).

It seems to me that there has to be a happy medium where outfits are still profitable but the prices don’t exclude guys who are passionate about hunting and conservation. Maybe a few big name outfits and taxidermy studios try to set an example and drop prices. Airlines and governments aren’t gonna make it easier on hunters, so we have to help ourselves.

I could be missing something, but there’s got to be some way to save it for ourselves and future generations

Try telling that to any Stone Sheep outfitter.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Could be flight costs. I booked my flight to Windhoek before the war, just checked the flight cost and it is already up $1,100 more than I paid for it.

Exactly this. Dealing with someone now that are looking at rescheduling due to the inflated flight ticket costs.

 

[BRICKBURN]

If I am not mistaken, during that time there were more cases of Ebola in the USA than in Southern Africa during the same time period.

Precisely.
Ignorance and fear are an interesting combination....
Everyone knows Africa is a country, right?

 

[deewayne2003]

When costs of the hunts themselves go up I wonder what some of the reasons are. Obviously there’s travel, government fees, etc that are a different matter. There are certain things that will obviously make operating costs go up, such as fuel prices, inflation and so forth. But when prices are going up “because people will pay them” I feel like it’s not only bad for the community but it can’t be that much better for the outfitters themselves.

In a thread I saw a few days ago it was mentioned that an Alaskan outfitters never raised prices because it wasn’t necessary, but was eventually convinced by other outfitters to raise them because he could. The thought process being that instead of booking 20 hunters you could make the same amount of money booking 5 who would pay the insane amount.

Is it not better for outfitters to have a larger clientele to cater to? If 1 out of 20 cancels, that’s a lot larger hit than if 1 out of 5 cancels. And someone spending $100k on a hunt probably isn’t in a financial situation where losing a deposit affects him.

With the attack on hunters in American media, it’s always highlighted about the cost of the trip and that the guy was wealthy in an attempt to dehumanize whoever is being highlighted in the article. It’s not seen as Average Joe on trip of a lifetime, it’s portrayed as some rich asshole who loves slaughtering animals because he’s wealthy (which to be fair is another problem altogether).

It seems to me that there has to be a happy medium where outfits are still profitable but the prices don’t exclude guys who are passionate about hunting and conservation. Maybe a few big name outfits and taxidermy studios try to set an example and drop prices. Airlines and governments aren’t gonna make it easier on hunters, so we have to help ourselves.

I could be missing something, but there’s got to be some way to save it for ourselves and future generations

I agree with you whole heartedly, however I look at other issues and can blatantly see that the people booking most of these insanely priced hunts could NOT care less about future generations in any way shape or form.........

"I'm getting mine, to hell with everyone after me!"

Seems to be the rallying cry from the housing market to big game hunts.

I also find it entertaining that outfitters who were so gleefully advertising their inflated prices are now scrambling trying to fill cancelation hunts; because just like you said - If you are making your profit on 5 hunts and you have one cancelation that may go unfilled.... that one canceled hunt could be the difference in profit vs. breaking even.

Reminds me of the insane prices that the pre64 Winchester market had for years, people bought them then the subprime market hit and it is only now after Covid that the prices are starting to match again.

 

[Hombre]

I never thought I would say this but for the first time in almost 40 years I am NOT planning a trip to Africa. My reasons, I'm tired of being treated like an unlimited ATM machine by everyone involved in the trip.
If I'm going to hunt, I want to bring my trophies home. Shipping, dip/pack, transfer fees, inspection fees, etc etc etc. On top of that, I am told how much to tip and it has been crazy numbers. The 15% extra on daily rate and now trophy fees is the killer card for me.
Simply state how much a hunt daily rate and trophy fees are and if it fits I will go. When I have to end up paying more for the add ons than the trip then time to check out. I've seen this snowballing for the last ten years and I sucked it up but no more, I'm done with BS.