Thoughts on the use of a Pederzoli Kodiak .50 sxs muzzle loader : 370gn Maxi-balls for plains game hunting?

[Boone66]

We can't use primers or sabots here in Montana, but I wonder If musket caps would make a difference?

 

[Boone66]

@Gert Odendaal , how did your hunting trip go?

 

[dgr416]

That sucks you cant use primer adapters .My groups tighted up so much this thing went from shootimg shotgun patterns to making 1.5 inch groups with both barrels The double adjustable sites and going off as fast as a 3030 model 94 were night and day .I had a ton of hangfires and not going off with regular csps .I should put a scope rail I think that would help even more .I have a cva express rifle same thing .

 

[Gert Odendaal]

@Gert Odendaal , how did your hunting trip go?

I will be hunting the beginning of May in the Northern Cape region

 

[Boone66]

Nice, I took my 54 cal Kodiak out of the safe today, you got me wanting to shoot it again and maybe get it regulated.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Nice, I took my 54 cal Kodiak out of the safe today, you got me wanting to shoot it again and maybe get it regulated.

Great, yes, I am getting the .50 Pederzoli Kodiak Express double to reach out to 80 meters..it is a great rifle to shoot..I am regulating it at 80 meters ..

the last time I took it to the shooting range I manage to get it to print 50mm apart..every shot was a kill shot on a warthog on the paper target..

I am off to the shooting range very soon to complete the regulation for the up coming shoot .

 

[Boone66]

Great, yes, I am getting the .50 Pederzoli Kodiak Express double to reach out to 80 meters..it is a great rifle to shoot..I am regulating it at 80 meters ..

the last time I took it to the shooting range I manage to get it to print 50mm apart..every shot was a kill shot on a warthog on the paper target..

I am off to the shooting range very soon to complete the regulation for the up coming shoot .

That's awesome, at what range does yours cross? Mine didn't come with a rib sight, it has a peep sight only. Pretty neat gun.

 

[dgr416]

Mine didnt cross shot out to 125 yards good but need a scope to shoot goid that far .If you can find those double folding adjustable sites helps big time .It had a single adjustable site .

 

[Boone66]

Mine didnt cross shot out to 125 yards good but need a scope to shoot goid that far .If you can find those double folding adjustable sites helps big time .It had a single adjustable site .

Interesting, I'm thinking of putting a mid range tang sight on, like on a sharps. It already has a factory installed peep sight, but is like ideal, except the peep post just screws up and down, no number marks. I have a non windage midrange sight with the proper hole spacing, don't know if it will work, but going to give it a try. I can take pictures of them if anyone is interested.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Interesting, I'm thinking of putting a mid range tang sight on, like on a sharps. It already has a factory installed peep sight, but is like ideal, except the peep post just screws up and down, no number marks. I have a non windage midrange sight with the proper hole spacing, don't know if it will work, but going to give it a try. I can take pictures of them if anyone is interested.

Please post pictures.

As most tang sights that I am familiar with allow for windage and elevation adjustments.

JMPO....Save your money.....Purchase a tang sight that allows for both windage and elevation adjustments in the smallest increments possible.

 

[Boone66]

Please post pictures.

As most tang sights that I am familiar with allow for windage and elevation adjustments.

JMPO....Save your money.....Purchase a tang sight that allows for both windage and elevation adjustments in the smallest increments possible.

I will, and I already have several tang sights, it depends on the sight, some you would pare with a front windage sight.

 

[Boone66]

I will, and I already have several tang sights, it depends on the sight, some you would pare with a front windage sight.

 

[Boone66]

Well, holes don't line up enough, so I will have to make a base, I'll just make it rear windage

 

[Daryl S]

I would not use TC MAXIBALLS for anything heavier that a Texas Whitetail deer, ie: 100 or so pounds. We tried them on B.C. moose amd they failed horribly. After impact, they would not travel in a straight line, even making 90 degree turns when hitting ribs. Could not get them to double lung a moose with a perfectly landed broadside hit. The bûlets as well did not expand, but woul collaps into the huge grease groves instead of expanding. That, along with the zlow 48"ROT might have been why they refused to penetrate in a straight line.
IMHO the TC MAXIBALL is a useless bullet for hunting big game.
If you have to use a slugs in thar gun due to not knowing how to or not having worked up a good round ball load for the gun, the use a flat nosed bullet, or very nearly so, a flat nosed bullet. Worse case scenario wouls be the R.E.A.L. Lee bullet. At least the dides arent hollowed out as on the Maxiball. The Lee bullet should expand, not collaps and be shorter than the too-long Maxiball, so more stable after impact.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

I managed to swage the over size .50 caliber cast bullets . Then push it through a die that swage some grooves onto the bullet to shoot in the .50 Pederzoli Kodiak sxs muzzle loader rifle ...I will give some feedback .

 

[Daryl S]

Good luck with that. Thr bullet looks too.long to.me, for the rate of twist in that rifle. I going its likely a 48"twist.
The bullet you posted would work better in a 36" or 38" rate of twist. I would suggest a 300 to 350gr. Weight for the Kodiak.

 

[fourfive8]

I see daryl has provided advice again.

I think the Kodiak rifle series over the years came in more that one twist rate. Reference sources say they might be found in 24, 36 or 48” twist. Easy enough to confirm which by measuring with a tight jagged patch.
Contrary to the last advice by daryl and recommendation posted, I have been able to get excellent accuracy with the 50 cal Maxiball (TC or Lyman) out of 48” twist bores. IIRC, the load was a 370 gr TC Maxiball of pure lead lubed with Crisco. About 80 gr FF powder, with a 1/8” dense felt wad between bullet and powder.

Also contrary to daryl’s post, my experience with the original TC Maxiball of pure lead, truncated cone ogive for hunting has been without issue. All have been straight line pass throughs using the 50 caliber Maxiball on bears and large mule deer, a few topping 250lbs, with consisten pass throughs of heaviest part of both shoulders with perpendicular side shots. The only issues I have ever had or witnessed was with muzzleloaders on big game was with 45 and 50 caliber pure lead round balls. Even witnessed a couple of less than stellar results with 54 caliber round balls. Soft lead round balls simply expand too much at the higher round ball velocities and may fail to penetrate heavy shoulder bones and muscle in big game like mule deer or larger. In my experience, roundballs start being reliable penetrators when larger than 60 caliber. I think it has something to do with the mass to surface ratio of a sphere increasing geometrically as the diameter increases linearly.

 

[Daryl S]

I gave a warning on the use of those on heavy game. No deer, nor skinny boned bears can be considered as heavy game. Ribs 2" wide and 3/8" thick deflect those bullets and turn them. So do their spines, instead of breaking. That goes for .54 Maxibals too. They become unstable upon impact. A 200 to 250 pound deer might be big where you are, but is a normal young buck with 2 or 3 pts. per side here. Our big bucks will run 350 but still do not match the muscle or bone of a 7 month old bull calf moose. Those little ones have leg bones that are 2" in diameter.
My .58 Kodiak had 48"ROT. I think, although not sure that the .72 has the same ROT. It would be fine for bullets of typical 750gr. weight. I have never heard of Pedersoli Kodiaks having anything but a 48"ROT. If they do have a faster rate of twist, then fine.

Obviously you know better, though, so fill your boots.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Good luck with that. Thr bullet looks too.long to.me, for the rate of twist in that rifle. I going its likely a 48"twist.
The bullet you posted would work better in a 36" or 38" rate of twist. I would suggest a 300 to 350gr. Weight for the Kodiak.

Daryl thank you kindly for your input it is much appreciated.Please provide a black powder load you are using in your Pederzoli sxs muzzle loader .50 caliber ?
It would be nice if you will upload a grouping you shot at 80 meters and what cast bullet you are currently using with the grouping you are shooting.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

I see daryl has provided advice again.

I think the Kodiak rifle series over the years came in more that one twist rate. Reference sources say they might be found in 24, 36 or 48” twist. Easy enough to confirm which by measuring with a tight jagged patch.
Contrary to the last advice by daryl and recommendation posted, I have been able to get excellent accuracy with the 50 cal Maxiball (TC or Lyman) out of 48” twist bores. IIRC, the load was a 370 gr TC Maxiball of pure lead lubed with Crisco. About 80 gr FF powder, with a 1/8” dense felt wad between bullet and powder.

Also contrary to daryl’s post, my experience with the original TC Maxiball of pure lead, truncated cone ogive for hunting has been without issue. All have been straight line pass throughs using the 50 caliber Maxiball on bears and large mule deer, a few topping 250lbs, with consisten pass throughs of heaviest part of both shoulders with perpendicular side shots. The only issues I have ever had or witnessed was with muzzleloaders on big game was with 45 and 50 caliber pure lead round balls. Even witnessed a couple of less than stellar results with 54 caliber round balls. Soft lead round balls simply expand too much at the higher round ball velocities and may fail to penetrate heavy shoulder bones and muscle in big game like mule deer or larger. In my experience, roundballs start being reliable penetrators when larger than 60 caliber. I think it has something to do with the mass to surface ratio of a sphere increasing geometrically as the diameter increases linearly.

fourfiveight thank you kindly for your positive advice and the great information you provided. I surely will follow your advice/insight at the practical experience you have experienced yourself while shooting your Pedersoli sxs muzzle loader.

Like I previously mentioned , it is a work in progress to get my .50 cal Pederzoli sxs muzzle loader to shoot out accurately to 80 meters ..I have noticed a tendency to group at 80 meters .

I am working on my load to ensure accuracy and good shot placement at 80 meters.