Thoughts on a "Bergstutzen" O/U-two different calibers in the same barrel set, 9.3x74R/6.5x57R

Discussion in 'Double Rifles' started by IvW, Feb 16, 2018.

  1. IvW

    IvW AH Elite

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    I have been looking at this rifle and think it is a great idea for a all round PG rifle.

    The Krieghoff is available with fully adjustable barrels(windage and elevation) can be adjusted for both barrels to shoot to the same POI.

    Furthermore the O/U configuration makes for easy regulation.

    Sturdy scope mounting system is available which will enhance the all round capability and also ensure good accuracy for longer range application.

    I would go for one barrel in 9.3x74R and the other in 6.5x57R, that will pretty much cover everything PG wise I would hunt.

    When I hunt for myself I only walk and stalk and never pull the trigger if I am not happy with the shot. I mainly hunt for meat when I am hunting for myself and I think this set-up would be a truly unique one to use.

    Any thoughts or fellow AH members who have one or actually hunt with one?

    Regards
    IvW
     

  2. Foxi

    Foxi AH Elite

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    a wonderful,expensive gun.
    Some friends using aBergstutzen in the mountains and are happy with it.
    You have so many different species in RSA, its not a bad idea.
    The 6,5x57 is almost the class of .270 Win and I had good results until boar and red stags with 6,5.
    I have only the poor man version : a 90 year old Drilling(from a fathers hunting buddy) with a complete slip-in barrel (right word?) in .22 Hornet
    8x57 IRS and one 16/70 gauge.This caliber combination is perfect for a woodhunter like me.
    I can imagine that our member HWL knows much more than I.
    Foxi
     
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  3. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    I have always thought such a rifle would be perfect for the use you describe. They are notoriously difficult to regulate, but the Krieghoff design makes it a far easier chore. Regulate the 9.3 dead on at 100 meters and the 6.5 1.5/2 inches high at 100 with the same sight picture, and you would be ready for anything from a warthog at fifty feet to a springbok at 325.
     
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  4. Peter Larsson

    Peter Larsson AH Veteran

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    I have an old Krieghoff bergstutzen in 7x65R/222Rem and I like the idea!
    It is made 1967 as a ALP-S combination gun and converted to BS by krieghoff 1968
    Use it for stalking.Have shot some roedeer and a pig with the 7mm barrel and some foxes and beavers with the 222 barrel.
    I like that you can load and reload it silent! I have notised that if you miss the first shot the animals often stay still until you have time to reload.
    Whith a bolt action they normally run away when you cykle the bolt.
    It have set triggers fot both barrels and a adjustable 222 barrel.

    DSCN0347.JPG DSCN0349.JPG DSCN0354.JPG mms_img16597233041.jpg mms_img4126418031 - kopia.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2018

  5. Foxi

    Foxi AH Elite

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    "They are notoriously difficult to regulate"

    Red Leg,
    there's some truth in that.
    Some of them always work,always and others are milked to the mouse.
    (not sure that an American does know the meaning of the last words :sleep:)
     
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  6. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    You are right, idioms are as hard to translate as bergstutzens are to regulate.!
     
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  7. IvW

    IvW AH Elite

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    I am still having a serious look into this idea as I am looking for something different as a hunting rifle.

    Pity the largest caliber for the small caliber barrel is 6.5mm I would have been more happy with the 7x65R.

    Which would be better for the small barrel, the 6.5x57R or the 6.5x65R?

    The other option would be O/U with 2 sets of barrels.
     
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  8. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    Good question. I have zero experience with the 6.5x65R. However, I have taken a truckload or two of roe deer, red deer, boar, and whitetail with the 6.5x57R. It is a wonderful cartridge in the middle of the 6.5 family that seems to be inherently accurate out of everything. And because of its BC, hits far above its weight. I have always thought of it as a perfectly balanced deer caliber. That means it would be perfectly balanced for mid-sized African PG and below. I would think of it in the typical combination rifle as ideal for something like bush buck. The 9.3 is there for the blue wildebeest or eland. Either would settle a warthog's troubles.

    Damn you! I have started prowling the internet for just such a combination. :mad:
     
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  9. HWL

    HWL AH Enthusiast

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    The 6,5x65 und 6,5x65R were developed by RWS in 1990.

    Main goal was to improve the 6,5x57(R) in accuracy and power.

    The dimensions of the cartridge were choosen to have an easy job when cutting a new chamber into existing 6,5x57(R) rifles.

    When you need the extra power and a flatter trajectory, take the x65.

    But RWS only makes this cartridges, and this is not cheep stuff…. reloading is a good idea.

    Mauser M98, converted from 6,5x57 to 6,5x65..... S&B 12x42 on pivot mount.
    DSC02146.JPG
     

  10. HWL

    HWL AH Enthusiast

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  11. IvW

    IvW AH Elite

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    Thanks for the feedback.

    I have done some checking and I recon the x 57 has more than enough that is needed. The x 65 may have more "power" but for accuracy I cannot imagine thet it has any advantage over the x 57. Cases ammo etc is far more available than the x 65 in SA anyway.

    I may even find out if the 7x57mm is available for the smaller caliber
     

  12. dchamp

    dchamp AH Veteran

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  13. Longwalker

    Longwalker AH Enthusiast

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    I just came back from a week in Germany. I was hunting with a Blaser bergstuzen in .222 rem over 8x57IRS. I borrowed the rifle from my host, who is a forester for the city of Cologne. It was about ideal for our hunting. The small caliber was perfectly suited to fox and roe deer, the larger for wild boar and red deer. If I hunted a lot in the style we were doing, with a variety of game, I might use one here. for the purposes you describe. I think you'd be very happy with a Krieghoff Bergstutzen 9.3x74R / 6.5x57R. I had a German friend visit me here in Canada a couple years ago who had the exact same configuration Krieghoff rifle in 9.3/6.5 that you are considering purchasing. He used it for a black bear / wolf hunt, with most of that hunting conducted from high seats over bait. The rifle/ cartridge choices were about perfect for that application.
     
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  14. Excessexpress

    Excessexpress AH Senior Member

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    That combination will work and work well, but.....(isn’t there always one of those?)....

    Another option may be to use a 9.3x74R double, loading the top barrel with a 232gr bullet rather than a 286.
     

  15. IvW

    IvW AH Elite

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    Sighted in at 100 yards there would be only about 3 inches difference in drop between the two.

    You would still have a 9.3 in both barrels.

    I reckon a 6.5/9.3 would be a much more versatile combination as it would allow for a larger spectrum of animals to be hunted. From the smallest to the largest PG.

    I would depending on the bullets and load use probably sight the 6.5 barrel 2 inches higher than the 9.3 at 100 meters.

    9.3 barrel 286-320 gr bullet and the 6,5 140-160 gr bullet.

    Note: this will be for my own meat hunting purposes and not trophy hunting.

    With the diversity of our game species as well as Murphy who often accompanies one on a hunt, I may have the 243 W in my hands while going out after spring buck or bles buck and then bump into an eland or gems buck or vise versa have the 375 H&H and then bump into a nice spring buck at longer range.

    Anyway there is always a reason to buy a new gun and this will make for a very interesting combination and I think a fun gun to hunt with.
     
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  16. HWL

    HWL AH Enthusiast

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    A .375 H&H and 7mm Mauser also would be a nice combination...

    My personal Bergstutzen is a Merkel O/U in 12 ga and .30-06 Springfield.

    The shotgun barrel has an insert barrel in .223 Remington.

    I a case of emergency, 12 ga, .30-06 and .223, you can find in every ditch....

    HWL
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2018

  17. IvW

    IvW AH Elite

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    Only problem is that Krieghoff do not have the 12ga as an option on the combination gun, only 20ga. If They made the combination in 12ga, I would have gone that route with 12ga/9.3x74R and then two insert barrels, one in 9.3x74R and the other in either 7x57R-7x65R or 6,5x57R, but they don,t offer it as it is on a 20ga action.

    I have a Renato Gamba 12ga/9.3x74R combination with 28 inch barrels, which makes for a very versatile rifle but I cannot get a full length barrel insert for it. It is very useful for shooting birds though.

    Then I also have a Belgium(on a Ferlacht action) combination in 7x65R/12ga with 23.5 inch barrels. The shotgun barrel is good for slugs and buckshot but not so good for wingshooting.(My sons uses this rifle)

    And the the Heym, 16ga/7x57R combination(in process), very light on aluminum action.(I am buying this for my daughter)
     

  18. 1dirthawker

    1dirthawker AH Enthusiast

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    ivw,

    the double 9;3 does have the ability shoot to the distances you require. yup, more rifle than needed on some game, but you could shoot a solid or a tough soft on smaller game and end up with a nice compromise as well.

    a soft and a solid 286 gr bullet would solve a lot of your problems. or your idea of a rifle that shoots 2-2 1/2" higher with the lighter caliber is also a pretty good idea. that said, you could also regulate your 9.3 to put one barrel 2-2.5" higher, that would reach out pretty far, but as you noted, not as far as the lighter caliber.

    also, if you are hand loading, you could get the the 9.3 to shoot 2400 fps with 286, and regulate it to where ever you wish it to hit. with your 232 gr bullet pushed fast, i bet it would shoot as far as needed.

    not a bad problem to have to decide. truth is, although i seem to be pimping the 9.3 i think the smaller caliber would be the better choice for one of the barrels. my only thought was, the 9.3 would do almost everything, most of the time except for the very occasional shot.

    have fun with your project.
     
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  19. HWL

    HWL AH Enthusiast

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    Full length (removable) insert barrels are common in Austria/Germany.

    Action strong enough, they make it up to 9,3x74R, converting your Renato Gamba in a O/U double rifle!

    Ulrich Keller and Christof Simmmann

    KuS_4169_C_A_S.jpg

    https://www.einstecklauf.de/keller+simmann.html

    HWL
     

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  20. IvW

    IvW AH Elite

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    Thank you very much for that info, I will send them an email and find out about the possibilities of getting an insert barrel for the Renato Gamba, it is supremely accurate with the current setup and the rifle balances very well.
     

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