Thinking About Buying A Vintage Shotgun? Read This First

[dgr416]

I want a 20 ga model 21 they are still super high .Thats why i just bought another model 24 20 ga sxs with longer barrel and different chokes .I can hit better with those guns than any shotgun I own .I have hit 300 out of 300 skeets with it .I never missed a grouse with it ever .

 

[SLG]

I want a 20 ga model 21 they are still super high .Thats why i just bought another model 24 20 ga sxs with longer barrel and different chokes .I can hit better with those guns than any shotgun I own .I have hit 300 out of 300 skeets with it .I never missed a grouse with it ever .

That's how I feel about my 12g 23. Makes hitting easy. I also like to shoot slugs through it and for a gun with no recoil pad, it is amazing how perfectly comfortable it is to shoot. 100 rounds of full power slugs in a short session is no big deal.

How do your 24's handle compared to the 21?

 

[dgr416]

I never shot a model 21 .I never saw one till reciently now everyone is dragging them out of the closet .My first model 24 20 ga fits me like a glove but the buttplate was cut and angled recoil pad added .I have shot 100 out of 100 with that shotgun many times .It has a very large front beed .I let kids shoot it and they had never shot skeet and they usually shoot 95 out of 100 in skeet .This new 24 20 ga is 28 inch mod full first one is imp mod 26 inch .I hope the 20 ga model 21s go down like the model 21 12 ga have we will see .I am looking for a nice 28 ga sxs still have a couple in mind .

 

[leslie hetrick]

i just sold a browning bss sporter 20 ga to help lower the cost of a like new merkel 47E in 20 ga with original factory takedown leather carrying case, i have only fired it 52 times so far and it very stiff to open and close. there is a small group of men here who shoot the clay games with nothing but doubles and i want to join them. low base 7/8 oz #8 at 1100-1200 fps.

 

[SLG]

i just sold a browning bss sporter 20 ga to help lower the cost of a like new merkel 47E in 20 ga with original factory takedown leather carrying case, i have only fired it 52 times so far and it very stiff to open and close. there is a small group of men here who shoot the clay games with nothing but doubles and i want to join them. low base 7/8 oz #8 at 1100-1200 fps.

Not to call you out at all, but have you cleaned and lubed the gun since getting it? I find that makes a huge difference in ease off opening and closing. Ofcourse, a stiff action is a stiff action and you have probably already done that.

I'm also shooting clays with my 12g SxS, a 11/8 oz of #7.5 at 1230 or so. great fun.

 

[leslie hetrick]

Not to call you out at all, but have you cleaned and lubed the gun since getting it? I find that makes a huge difference in ease off opening and closing. Ofcourse, a stiff action is a stiff action and you have probably already done that.

I'm also shooting clays with my 12g SxS, a 11/8 oz of #7.5 at 1230 or so. great fun.

yes, i have cleaned and lubed it. first thing at the get go. on the german shotgun boards they say the merkels are very tight and will take a brake time, as i have only 52 rounds thru it, the shotgun looks like new and couldn,t have been fired very much. it,s fixed chokes, mod-ipc.

 

[PCC600]

I got this William Powell boxlock sxs 12g last year . Made in 1951 and sold to Australia . Case with all accessories , 2 sets of barrels quarter/ half choke and three quarters/ full . Bores/ barrels are perfect . It is a Pidgeon gun with side clips on a Webley & Scott action with a blind Scott cross bolt . It was sent over to me from Western Australia for approval . It is superb and shoots wonderfully . It can also handle steel shot ( not that I need to ) with the more open choked barrels . All this for a couple of thousand dollars . It is so good to shoot I sold my Beretta 682 o/u.

 

[Altitude sickness]

This book won’t make you an expert. But it will tell you what you don’t know.

 

[rookhawk]

I got this William Powell boxlock sxs 12g last year . Made in 1951 and sold to Australia . Case with all accessories , 2 sets of barrels quarter/ half choke and three quarters/ full . Bores/ barrels are perfect . It is a Pidgeon gun with side clips on a Webley & Scott action with a blind Scott cross bolt . It was sent over to me from Western Australia for approval . It is superb and shoots wonderfully . It can also handle steel shot ( not that I need to ) with the more open choked barrels . All this for a couple of thousand dollars . It is so good to shoot I sold my Beretta 682 o/u.

It's a lovely gun @PCC600 but I remain unconvinced it was a Live Pigeon Gun. The give-away tells its a live pigeon gun would be the totality of facts. 1.) It should be overweight, exceeding 7 pounds, 2.) The stock should have excessive drop, not the typical 1-5/8" and 2-1/8" standard. 3.) The safety will never be an automatic resetting safety. 4.) Yes, sideclips are more common on Live Pigeon guns, but they exist on many game guns too.

 

[rookhawk]

This book won’t make you an expert. But it will tell you what you don’t know. View attachment 747519View attachment 747520

In the 15-20 years since Digs wrote that book one fact has changed on that page. There he was telling people Trigger Plate Actions and Grant Side Levers are bargains. A MacNaughton or Dickson trigger plate action will sell for more than any equal quality H&H, Purdey, Boss, or Westley today. A Stephen Grant will outsell any other tier-2 maker I can think of.

Every other point on that page is an eternal truth.

The book is absolutely the best primer on fine shotguns that has been written. It was originally called "Vintage Guns for The Modern Shot" and in reprints "Vintage Guns". It's out of print now and hard to find for $150. Ten years ago I was buying them in ten-packs for $26 on Amazon and gifting them to friends trying to learn about British Shotguns. Times are a-changing.

 

[Altitude sickness]

I meant to ask you about that one paragraph.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Another book I just bought here on AH. That also reminds me how little I know in this field. An amazing amount of detail and history in this book.

 

[rookhawk]

For those of you trying to gain the knowledge and tools to be able to buy vintage shotguns, this is another must-have book. It's three volumes, and sadly it is out of print and fetches upwards of $700 for the trio.

They contain all the ledgers known from the British makers, plus addresses and years of operations for various guild members.

The point? It will allow you to pinpoint the date of manufacture and potentially indicate how many of X type of shotgun were produced by that maker.

 

[HankBuck]

I want a 20 ga model 21 they are still super high .Thats why i just bought another model 24 20 ga sxs with longer barrel and different chokes .I can hit better with those guns than any shotgun I own .I have hit 300 out of 300 skeets with it .I never missed a grouse with it ever .

@dgr416 - if you own a shotgun that you “Never” missed a Grouse with —- You don’t do much Grouse hunting…. Some Grouse Hunters might pay $1million for that “magic” gun !!

 

[PCC600]

It's a lovely gun @PCC600 but I remain unconvinced it was a Live Pigeon Gun. The give-away tells its a live pigeon gun would be the totality of facts. 1.) It should be overweight, exceeding 7 pounds, 2.) The stock should have excessive drop, not the typical 1-5/8" and 2-1/8" standard. 3.) The safety will never be an automatic resetting safety. 4.) Yes, sideclips are more common on Live Pigeon guns, but they exist on many game guns too.

Yes I agree it is far too petite for a true Live Pidgeon gun. I was only commenting on what the original sales documents / history from Wm Powell have recorded . It would have come to Oz purely for duck and goose hunting or possibly some sort of clay target shooting.

 

[PCC600]

This book won’t make you an expert. But it will tell you what you don’t know. View attachment 747519View attachment 747520

Yes I have this book . It is very helpful .

 

[dgr416]

Grouse hunting in Alaska was was different than any other place I have been first its flat as a pancake where I hunted and not thick .It reminded me of old South Quail hunting .We use to be able to shoot 15 a day which was awesome .My shotgun with that big front beed and more open chokes was magical on grouse .I hunted grouse before then in the mountains and it was way harder and thicker not easy .I aways took 3 kids and we had a blast hunting .There where tons coveys of grouse back then.I went back last year limit wss lowered to 5 and I didnt see a single ruff grouse .Russians that were brought in as political refugees wiped out everything .I miss the good old days.

 

[HankBuck]

For best results, the reader should find someone locally to them if at all possible. But thank you for the endorsement.

@rookhawk - I fully agree with you that a qualified GS is needed to perform any work on a SxS and especially older models. I have found that getting a GS well versed in vintage SxS shotguns is “difficult”. I recently sent out two SxS (AH Fox & LC Smith - both 100+ years old) to Vintage Firearms in Grand Rapids MI because I was unable to find anyone closer to where I live that I trusted to work on them. Some recent “History” —— Both guns were in excellent mechanical condition “before” I had some restoration work performed on them: blued, checkering recut, chambers lengthened, chokes opened up x Briley, triggers cleaned/polished. After getting them back and within firing 200 rounds of target loads — both guns developed problems with triggers, extraction, safety, double discharge. I decided I needed to send them to a Different GS, one familiar with older SxS and after researching - selected Vintage Firearms in MI.
I should be getting these guns back in a few weeks and “hope” they function perfectly. My Son and I shoot Sporting Clays and enjoy the special “SxS Events”. We use lighter target loads 12ga/1oz/1200 fps or lower. We only enter a few competitions a year and will only be putting 250-300 rounds thru these SxS a year.
Note: Before we invested any $$ in restoring these guns cosmetically we had both guns inspected by a previous GS and he was confident that these guns were in excellent mechanical condition, safe for shooting standard target loads etc… this GS is highly regarded for work on high end OUs and their restoration work (blueing & stock making is also well regarded), we have used them before as have others at my skeet club and always been very pleased. I think they are less versed in older model SxS and that resulted in some possible errors on their part, they made several attempts to correct the mechanical problems and did Not charge me for those efforts BUT they were unable to correct the problems.

 

[HankBuck]

I never shot a model 21 .I never saw one till reciently now everyone is dragging them out of the closet .My first model 24 20 ga fits me like a glove but the buttplate was cut and angled recoil pad added .I have shot 100 out of 100 with that shotgun many times .It has a very large front beed .I let kids shoot it and they had never shot skeet and they usually shoot 95 out of 100 in skeet .This new 24 20 ga is 28 inch mod full first one is imp mod 26 inch .I hope the 20 ga model 21s go down like the model 21 12 ga have we will see .I am looking for a nice 28 ga sxs still have a couple in mind .

@dgr416 - that is some extraordinary shooting: running 100 straight at skeet w/a SxS and then “kids” that “never shot skeet” break 95/100….that is a Magic shotgun ——unless those clay targets are being shot on-the-ground? Never sell that gun - for less then a $$Million