The mighty 243 Win

[Miletic]

From now,we call Bob “Bob Nelson 25Whelen”!!!!!

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

I have read on here that in parts Africa there is a minimum caliber for heavy pg and it was I believe 7mm. Did I read that wrong?

Law?
Rule?
Practice?
Theory?

 

[Miletic]

With regard to the Accubond- about 40 years ago following the success of Bill Steigers' BBCs Nosler along with Jack Carter wanted to get into the bonded bullet business. Bill was invited down to Bend,OR to talk with Nosler management regarding bonded bullets. Bill, being honest to a fault, told them that bonding (soldering) lead to copper was an old process, not covered by any patent regulations and if Nosler wanted to bond its bullets they would owe royalties to no one. But he also told them that bonding was not a method to compensate for an inadequate jacket and that trying to bond a partition bullet was not feasible. the result was Nosler started making bonded bullets, basically using their solid base jackets, minus the thickened base. Turns out the jackets were not up to the task and over expansion was the result. To retrieve their reputation, Nosler had to add thickness to the jackets.

And what happened? Did he add thickness?

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

One thing I think makes a difference.
Here most people know what bullets to use it especially on deer size game.
And new people have access to the net to help choose there ammo.

70-80 and to some point the 90s
What ever was cheaper was bought.
55gr 243 on deer hogs and even bear normally did not end well.

Even seen that with 30-06 when the local fed store had 110-or 120 gr 30-06 ammo.
It was bought and used and there was alot of lost deer with a few hunting clubs

@Flbt
That's the same problem we have in Australia.
Back in the 70s thru to the 90s and even to some extent today people buy what is cheaper. The fact that it may not work ( back then people didn't have the knowledge we have now) didn't matter.
Back then even my old 25-303 with 87 grainers killed pigs better than the 243 and people using. 243 couldn't figure out why.
Simple my bullet was travelling at an estimated 2,800fps, thier's was travelling according to Winchester at 3,300fps. The bullets weren't upto the task at those speeds hence the old 25 held together better drive deeper and killed quicker rather than give shallow penetration.
With the advent of better bullets eg the TTSX it has turned once poor performance into a whole new world but education is a slow process. Even now after much trying to explain things a lot of people I know that have 243s still swear by an 87gn soft points. They prefer to pay $30/ box for federal blue box than $60 for Barnes vortex.
You get what you pay for or load if you load your own
In Victoria the min cal for Sambar is 270 but I would have no issues shooting one with my 25 loaded with a 100gn TTSX at 3,600+ fps. @One Day has proven how effective that combination is in Africa.
So use a bullet designed for the job we as hunters at least owe the animals that much. If it hurts the wallet so be it, reserve the cheap stuff for small game and practice but if taking on bigger game use the correct bullet be it an 80gn TTSX or a 500gn Woodleigh. Match the hatch to the catch.
Bob

 

[Ray B]

And what happened? Did he add thickness?

I don't know. Once Nosler figured out that they didn't need to pay any royalties to Bill, he was sent home. Nosler started making the bullets with the problems as noted above but then as per above Nosler seems to have corrected the problem somewhat. Along a similar line, expanding bullets have windows of velocity wherein they perform as desired. Too fast, they over-expand, too slow they under-expand; or conversely, too fragile they over-expand, too stiff they under-expand. How the users use the bullets result in whether the bullet is favorable/unfavorable. Dave Andrews, longtime editor for Speer bullets told me that the goal was to receive equal percentage of letters from those who thought the bullet too fragile and those too stiff. He concluded with equal extremes, the middle was best served.

 

[Miletic]

I was thinking loading Accu 200gr in 8x68. I wanted to hunt in Africa with him

 

[eyedok]

Miletic, i have shot hundreds of pigs up to 400+ lbs, mostly w a .243 or 6mm, the 80 gr Barnes rips thru them easilty, actually the biggest i ever shot was w a SKS w $3/box crap ammo, thru both shoulders at 15 yds, it never took a step, have shot pigs w about 50 diff cartridges, all performed fine, shot quite a few one year w a .32-20 w lead bullets, no problems, just got to know the limitations of the cartridge and hit them in the right spot

 

[eyedok]

Even shot quite alot w .22 mag and .30 carbine, no issues

 

[Flbt]

Even shot quite alot w .22 mag and .30 carbine, no issues

The 22 mag was my best friend from south fl perfeard hog round.

I liked the 44 better when a boar threw the catch dogs.
I wanted some weight when up close
But I have all ways been a bit fat and climbing was not something I was good at.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I was thinking loading Accu 200gr in 8x68. I wanted to hunt in Africa with him

@Miletic
I used 225gn accubonds in my Whelen at 2,900fps. They held together and punched thru a kudu bull from stem to stern and was recovered in the ham. Massive damage from start to finish.
Impact velocity was still over 2,700fos at 120 yards and retained 75% of its weight. Perfect text book mushroom.
Bob

 

[Ray B]

@Miletic
I used 225gn accubonds in my Whelen at 2,900fps. Perfect text book mushroom.

Appears the bullet makers have learned a couple of lessons: 1. use enough copper in the jacket so that it doesn't rely on the lead for strength. and 2. for the monometal bullets, design the petal so that they expand uniformly, not bending/breaking differently thus steering the bullet like a rudder.

 

[Miletic]

@Miletic
I used 225gn accubonds in my Whelen at 2,900fps. They held together and punched thru a kudu bull from stem to stern and was recovered in the ham. Massive damage from start to finish.
Impact velocity was still over 2,700fos at 120 yards and retained 75% of its weight. Perfect text book mushroom.
Bob
View attachment 742719

Yes,that this is what we want. Perfect opening

 

[Miletic]

@Miletic
I used 225gn accubonds in my Whelen at 2,900fps. They held together and punched thru a kudu bull from stem to stern and was recovered in the ham. Massive damage from start to finish.
Impact velocity was still over 2,700fos at 120 yards and retained 75% of its weight. Perfect text book mushroom.
Bob
View attachment 742719

I have to try it in 8mm. He has a good BC. I'm currently testing the GMX. I have a group in 0.5moa, but the speed is low (2830fps)

 

[BlueFlyer]

I dispatched a couple of nuisance animals today with the 243AI fireforming loads today. It performed very well.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

This is an important conversation for many reasons…For people that use .243 or even “6.5” that have success with them, shoot them predictably accurate, and want to bring them on a Safari, you should talk to your outfitter and get their opinion. You need their buy in.

It makes no sense for the hunter who is on a budget, has a good rifle they shoot well, to go out and spend $1,500 to $4,000 on a good used or new .30 cal rifle and scope to bring on their first safari under any kind of duress. Or buy junk and never shoot it accurately. Besides, not everyone can afford to anyway.

Hell, I bought my first new hunting rifle (Browning SS - A Bolt Stalker in 7MM REM MAG) in the late 90’s in my late 20’s. It had an eBay bought used Leupold VX 3 scope and all I could afford was “on sale” factory ammo. I used it on pigs, coyotes, and deer.

My first Safari was “I believe” 2007. 8-10 years later. I was confident in my shooting, but not in my hunting abilities. I was learning, was nervous, didn’t want to make a mistake, didn’t want to injure an animal and not kill it cleanly, and certainly didn’t want to embarrass myself.

Plus, I was on a budget with a package hunt - like most first timers on Safari. The advantage I had; I practiced and was a very good shot. Not bragging, just saying that was important to the PH and to my success on that Safari. More importantly, it was paramount to my ability to become a better hunter and rifleman.

If it gets in your head or your PH realizes that you can not shoot predictably well, it may affect the outcome of your first safari and change your hunting trajectory…

Don’t let your dream fade or slip over BS second hand opinions. But, you must practice or have your kids practice with their intended rifle/cal, take direction/instruction well, and be confident in shot placement.

It was such a relief to have made a great first shot and at 200 yards on my first safari!

 

[Miletic]

This is an important conversation for many reasons…For people that use .243 or even “6.5” that have success with them, shoot them predictably accurate, and want to bring them on a Safari, you should talk to your outfitter and get their opinion. You need their buy in.

It makes no sense for the hunter who is on a budget, has a good rifle they shoot well, to go out and spend $1,500 to $4,000 on a good used or new .30 cal rifle and scope to bring on their first safari under any kind of duress. Or buy junk and never shoot it accurately. Besides, not everyone can afford to anyway.

Hell, I bought my first new hunting rifle (Browning SS - A Bolt Stalker in 7MM REM MAG) in the late 90’s in my late 20’s. It had an eBay bought used Leupold VX 3 scope and all I could afford was “on sale” factory ammo. I used it on pigs, coyotes, and deer.

My first Safari was “I believe” 2007. 8-10 years later. I was confident in my shooting, but not in my hunting abilities. I was learning, was nervous, didn’t want to make a mistake, didn’t want to injure an animal and not kill it cleanly, and certainly didn’t want to embarrass myself.

Plus, I was on a budget with a package hunt - like most first timers on Safari. The advantage I had; I practiced and was a very good shot. Not bragging, just saying that was important to the PH and to my success on that Safari. More importantly, it was paramount to my ability to become a better hunter and rifleman.

If it gets in your head or your PH realizes that you can not shoot predictably well, it may affect the outcome of your first safari and change your hunting trajectory…

Don’t let your dream fade or slip over BS second hand opinions. But, you must practice or have your kids practice with their intended rifle/cal, take direction/instruction well, and be confident in shot placement.

It was such a relief to have made a great first shot and at 200 yards on my first safari!

You wrote this well.
Exercise is the foundation of everything. Exposing the hunter to additional costs is unnecessary.
A bad shooter will wound antelope even with 500NE. As in everything in life, the more practice, the more success