The mighty 243 Win

[Ray B]

@Badboymelvin - some clarification. I recall the introduction of the 243 Win. My uncle purchased a Model 70 in 1961. At the time the readily available cartridges in the US were .222 variants, which in Oregon were too small for big game. Larger cartridges were 250 Sav, 257 Roberts and larger yet, 270 Win. The Savage and Roberts were chambered in short actions that required either small bullets or if larger bullets, the base protruded down into the case, reducing powder capacity. the Roberts resolved this with 117gr round nose bullets that had poor ballistics. About the same time as the 243 was introduced, so was the 244 remington. The 244 was actually a better design in that it had a shaper and shorter shoulder and a longer neck. But Remington marketers determined the market for it to be varmints so cut the barrels to 1-12" twist- insufficient to stabilize the 100 gr big game bullet.

 

[Ray B]

(cont) So the 243s competition was the underloaded 257 Roberts, the 244 shooting 80 grain bullets or going up to more of everything with the 270. The 243 had a niche that few cartridges have and it had it for several years until the 244 was rebranded to 6mm and given a 1-10" twist, and the 257 loads were upgraded to 257+P. By that point a lot of 243s had been sold and the market was established.

 

[Miletic]

@Miletic
Sorry but I have to disagree with your findings.
The 25 cal cartridges were doing everything the 243 is supposed to do before it came along and are still doing the job now and doing it better.
What is the 243 doing that the 250-3000 Savage wasn't doing for 30 years before the 243 came along. Nothing.
Like all things sellable the more advertising you can give a product the better it sells whether is a good or bad product . Winchester knew that and promoted the crap out of it.
Later with the advent of chronographs available to shooters Winchester had to revise their pie in the sky velocities down to actual levels.
In the right hands with the right projectiles it may work but the problem is the majority of shooters/hunters read all these wonderful stories about the 243, rush out and buy one and end up sorely disappointed. What these people fail to do is match the projectile to the game.
@NIGHTHAWK has great success using the 89gn TTSX but the average person just reads the hype rushes out and buys a box of 87gn soft points and wonders why game doesn't fall down.

The 25 cals on the other hand according to Nathan Foster's ballistic studies kill way out of proportion to their size and are a far better general purpose hunting cartridge because of this. My personal experience bares this out after over 50 years of hunting.
Bob

I have used the .25 06 with SST 117gr several times. I reload him and it works great. I think we hunted chamois with him. He did a good job. But it's still a big bullet

 

[Miletic]

One thing should be made clear, and that is, an unpracticed hunter will not make up for a poorly placed shot by simply using a larger caliber bullet and more powerful cartridge…

There are very few exceptions, but plenty of examples to the prove the point.

“Enough gun” seems to imply that poor shots are acceptable as long as you are using a .30 Cal or greater. -Not if you don’t shoot it predictably accurate. If you are recoil sensitive, flinch, cant your rifle, and generally don’t practice, you may miss or have animals run off injured and not recovered.

I’m not recoil sensitive and started out rifle hunting with a 7MM REM MAG. I have the same set up and process of shooting regardless of the caliber I use up to .375H&H. I don’t expect that to change even with my .450. Except, I’ll likely be taking shorter shots.

Bob makes a good point about the correct bullet. I use Barnes bullets and post honest reports about my experiences. Including pictures of heart and lung shots and recovered bullets.

I’ve had a couple bad hunting experiences with Accubond bullets and don’t use them anymore. I switched from Nosler Partition to Barnes TSX and TTSX because I appreciate the predictable performance of Barnes in most of my hunting rifles .22-250 to .375H&H. I’m not shitting on Nosler Partitions…

I also use Berger VLD Hunting bullets in my .300 RUM because it was built to shoot VLD’s long distance accurately. I’ve killed a couple Elk and 1 Mule Deer with Berger without issue. In the event that I do have a problem with Berger, I’ll post about it, first hand…

Each their own.

Nighthawk,
I'm interested what problems you have with the Accu?
Thanks

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

Nighthawk,
I'm interested what problems you have with the Accu?
Thanks

On 2 Different occasions, shortly after Accubond came out, I had early and excessive expansion on an Antelope and a warthog.

Massive entry hole after hitting a rib on the Antelope. Likely due to close range/distance of the shot and speed it was traveling at through the 7MM REM MAG.

Second was on a running warthog at about 70 yards. Texas heart shot blew the ass apart with massive damage.

Both animals died with one shot. Both occasions were circumstance.

I just wanted deeper penetration with more predictable results. I get that with Barnes. Barnes are easy to reload, accurate, penetrate well, and have great expansion and retention.

.243 Barnes 80 grain on a Roan:

 

[Miletic]

Thanks Nighthawk. I was planning to fill the Accu 90gr for wild boar, but now I won't if it opens early. That doesn't suit me. It has to penetrate deep, that's why i want bonded

On 2 Different occasions, shortly after Accubond came out, I had early and excessive expansion on an Antelope and a warthog.

Massive entry hole after hitting a rib on the Antelope. Likely due to close range/distance of the shot and speed it was traveling at through the 7MM REM MAG.

Second was on a running warthog at about 70 yards. Texas heart shot blew the ass apart with massive damage.

Both animals died with one shot. Both occasions were circumstance.

I just wanted deeper penetration with more predictable results. I get that with Barnes. Barnes are easy to reload, accurate, penetrate well, and have great expansion and retention.

.243 Barnes 80 grain on a Roan:
View attachment 742588

View attachment 742589

 

[Brickman301]

I don’t have any experience with the 243 with anything bigger than whitetails, with that being stated I think it’s a fine cartridge.
I grow up hunting groundhogs with a 243. Shoots nice and flat, and way more than enough for them.

My son started hunting deer at the age of 10. He used 100 grain Core-loks and took numerous deer with it for about 5-6 years. Watching him drop more deer with his 243, made me wonder why I use anything bigger myself for deer.

At 16 years old my son “upgraded” to 6.5 CM. That is also a nice cartridge for deer. He gets a lot of ribbing from us for using that cartridge. It’s all in good fun, as he’s been very effective with that right for the past several years.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

Hi Bob

Sorry mate, but I have to disagree with you on the point that the .243 is only popular because of marketing hype...

The .243 has been around since 1955 - that's 70 years, and I don't believe a cartridge hangs around that long purely because of marketing hype.

No, I think that a cartridge hangs around that long because its effective and it works.
And it's not just clinging on either, it's still popular.

Just have a think of how many cartridges in the last 20 years or so that have failed to take off?
And just think of how much marketing hype THOSE cartridges had, yet they still failed to succeed...

It's just my personal opinion, but I think that the .243 is an outstanding cartridge and Winchester got everything right with it.
And the fact that it made several calibre's obsolete - or close to it, mean I mustn't be the only one to think this.

I love the .243 and I think that it delivers on everything that it promises - and with modern projectiles, it's better than ever!

Russ

The problem is, most people shit on .243 not because they use it, opinions are likely based on internet description of intended use.

Most BS stories are either made up or 3rd hand “cousins friend lost a…. due to .243” I see people piling on at an attempt to gain popularity or they like to troll… Most of these comments I ignore or just use the ignore feature to be done with the troll. I did that on this post…

I’ve reported on 3 different PG safaris I’ve taken my .243 on. It shoots extremely accurate and is very fast. Great results out to 380 yards on animals up to 600 plus pounds.

Africa is not the only place I hunt with a .243… I can’t imagine not using it.

Bob and I agree more than we disagree. His main point being - shoot a quality bullet, practice and shoot well. Great advice for any caliber! He practices what he preaches. So, even though he shits on .243, It doesn’t bother me. Bob acknowledges results…That’s respectable.

I’ve been in camp where other hunters made bad shots with .30 cal and animals are injured and run off unrecovered. I’ve also heard horror stories from PH’s about bad shots, wrong animals shot, 2 animals shot in one shot!

I’ve never had an animal shot with a .243, or with any caliber, run off and not get recovered. I may just be lucky… I will not shoot, if it’s a bad shot to take. I’ve turned down shots over 400 with my .243.

I’ve had to make 2 shots on occasion, but that wasn’t exclusive to .243 and most of the time was to ensure a quick ethical death for the animal.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

Thanks Nighthawk. I was planning to fill the Accu 90gr for wild boar, but now I won't if it opens early. That doesn't suit me. It has to penetrate deep, that's why i want bonded

I’ve also had good success with them… Just went a different route. Plenty of people use them with great success and without issue.

 

[eyedok]

Just shot 2 wolves over 100lbs each at roughly 300 yds each w a .243 80 gr Barnes TTSX, worked perfectly, neither took a step w shoulder shots

 

[Flbt]

Hi Bob

Sorry mate, but I have to disagree with you on the point that the .243 is only popular because of marketing hype...

The .243 has been around since 1955 - that's 70 years, and I don't believe a cartridge hangs around that long purely because of marketing hype.

No, I think that a cartridge hangs around that long because its effective and it works.
And it's not just clinging on either, it's still popular.

Just have a think of how many cartridges in the last 20 years or so that have failed to take off?
And just think of how much marketing hype THOSE cartridges had, yet they still failed to succeed...

It's just my personal opinion, but I think that the .243 is an outstanding cartridge and Winchester got everything right with it.
And the fact that it made several calibre's obsolete - or close to it, mean I mustn't be the only one to think this.

I love the .243 and I think that it delivers on everything that it promises - and with modern projectiles, it's better than ever!

Russ

I think a lot had to do with marketing .
But also timing.
Plus a few market trends . A buch of cheep rifles were made in 243 but for around here the cost off ammo. I remember the 243 was the other cf deer cartridge that you could get as cheap as 30-30 ammo back in the 80s at least around here.

I know a lot of people that stared with a 243. None of them use them as there primary hunting rifle today.
I know 5 people that use the 6mm as a primary hunting round 3 it’s the 6mm rem and one is a 240 the others is a wildcat 6mm-06

I use a 6mm a lot but I am not counting myself in it because I use a few different rifles as the mood hits.

 

[Miletic]

On 2 Different occasions, shortly after Accubond came out, I had early and excessive expansion on an Antelope and a warthog.

Massive entry hole after hitting a rib on the Antelope. Likely due to close range/distance of the shot and speed it was traveling at through the 7MM REM MAG.

Second was on a running warthog at about 70 yards. Texas heart shot blew the ass apart with massive damage.

Both animals died with one shot. Both occasions were circumstance.

I just wanted deeper penetration with more predictable results. I get that with Barnes. Barnes are easy to reload, accurate, penetrate well, and have great expansion and retention.

.243 Barnes 80 grain on a Roan:
View attachment 742588

View attachment 742589

What do you think Nighgawk, how would TTSX 80gr perform on wild boars around 300 pounds? Would it have enough penetration?

 

[Miletic]

Just shot 2 wolves over 100lbs each at roughly 300 yds each w a .243 80 gr Barnes TTSX, worked perfectly, neither took a step w shoulder shots

What do you think eyedok, how would TTSX 80gr perform on wild boars around 300 pounds? Would it have enough penetration?

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

P

What do you think Nighgawk, how would TTSX 80gr perform on wild boars around 300 pounds? Would it have enough penetration?

Pigs. No problem

Practice by shooting Elk!

 

[Flewis]

I have read on here that in parts Africa there is a minimum caliber for heavy pg and it was I believe 7mm. Did I read that wrong?

 

[Flbt]

One thing I think makes a difference.
Here most people know what bullets to use it especially on deer size game.
And new people have access to the net to help choose there ammo.

70-80 and to some point the 90s
What ever was cheaper was bought.
55gr 243 on deer hogs and even bear normally did not end well.

Even seen that with 30-06 when the local fed store had 110-or 120 gr 30-06 ammo.
It was bought and used and there was alot of lost deer with a few hunting clubs

 

[Miletic]

One thing I think makes a difference.
Here most people know what bullets to use it especially on deer size game.
And new people have access to the net to help choose there ammo.

70-80 and to some point the 90s
What ever was cheaper was bought.
55gr 243 on deer hogs and even bear normally did not end well.

Even seen that with 30-06 when the local fed store had 110-or 120 gr 30-06 ammo.
It was bought and used and there was alot of lost deer with a few hunting clubs

You are absolutely in right

 

[Miletic]

I have read on here that in parts Africa there is a minimum caliber for heavy pg and it was I believe 7mm. Did I read that wrong?

No,you are a right. I so same read that

 

[Ray B]

With regard to the Accubond- about 40 years ago following the success of Bill Steigers' BBCs Nosler along with Jack Carter wanted to get into the bonded bullet business. Bill was invited down to Bend,OR to talk with Nosler management regarding bonded bullets. Bill, being honest to a fault, told them that bonding (soldering) lead to copper was an old process, not covered by any patent regulations and if Nosler wanted to bond its bullets they would owe royalties to no one. But he also told them that bonding was not a method to compensate for an inadequate jacket and that trying to bond a partition bullet was not feasible. the result was Nosler started making bonded bullets, basically using their solid base jackets, minus the thickened base. Turns out the jackets were not up to the task and over expansion was the result. To retrieve their reputation, Nosler had to add thickness to the jackets.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Hi Bob

Sorry mate, but I have to disagree with you on the point that the .243 is only popular because of marketing hype...

The .243 has been around since 1955 - that's 70 years, and I don't believe a cartridge hangs around that long purely because of marketing hype.

No, I think that a cartridge hangs around that long because its effective and it works.
And it's not just clinging on either, it's still popular.

Just have a think of how many cartridges in the last 20 years or so that have failed to take off?
And just think of how much marketing hype THOSE cartridges had, yet they still failed to succeed...

It's just my personal opinion, but I think that the .243 is an outstanding cartridge and Winchester got everything right with it.
And the fact that it made several calibre's obsolete - or close to it, mean I mustn't be the only one to think this.

I love the .243 and I think that it delivers on everything that it promises - and with modern projectiles, it's better than ever!

Russ

@Badboymelvin
Many a person has tried to convince me the 243 is good but after my experiences of people using it I will decline the offer to get one or try one.
Yes the 243 has been around for 70years but the 25s have been around for over 100years even the 25-06.
Winchesters advertising did kill off the 25s by touting is was the best thing since button up boots and sliced bread. It was a blow the 25s never recovered from.
There are those that love the 243 and those that's hate it, I fall into the second group. To me it doesn't do anything a 25 can't do better. You can't load a 120gn pull into it and a 115 gn tsx out of a 257 Roberts is sheer murder in red deer according to Nick Harvey.
Sorry mate you can have your 243 and enjoy it, I'll stick to my good old 25s.
Bob