The end of canned lion hunting looks imminent

[Mike70560]

There seems to be two separate issues in regards to RSA lion hunting. There's the actual hunt and how it is conducted and done so poorly, it is as some would say a shoot.

The second issue is the raising of lions and being done so only for hunting purposes. Well if there's another purpose for the lions coming out the breeding operations (and not just for zoos and circuses) meaning directly contributing to restoration in depleted areas, then I'd say that is a contribution to conservation.

But as I think most are prone to say, if it pays it stays. As such then the lion breeders will likely need alternative markets to make the business successful. If lion hunting in RSA is one of these alternative markets, then I think its a reasonable argument to make that RSA lion hunting creates a demand for lion breeders who in turn supply lions for conservation.

Flawed thinking?

Not flawed but probably not a true practice.

The company furnishing the lions for relocation in Brickburn's post, Phinda, is not a hunting company, so unfortunately the hunting business gets no credit for that one. http://www.andbeyond.com/conservati...-the-field/beyond-donates-lions-to-rwanda.htm

I struggle with this issue. It is hard for me to say any form of hunting should be banned. I also believe we have ethical and moral responsibilities as hunters. The problem is my ethics are different from yours and your are different from his and his are different from hers.

If the operators would have put self-imposed measures in place years ago restricting the size of the hunting area and how long the lion would be released in the wild I believe we would be in better shape than we are now. However that would drive the price up considering how may trophy kudu sable etc a lion can eat in a month.

Who knows maybe conservation themed sales could be the market that replaces the canned hunting.

 

[johnnyblues]

Well there it is folks. No proper representation from SCI or that matter DSC. Had this debacle been handled early on in the court of public opinion maybe just maybe we wouldn't be at this point! No one addressed the social media frenzy when the doc killed Cecil in a timely manner. So what do we expect? The world is growing increasing liberal which stands for bad news for hunters and gun owners. So if I read it correctly no one will be able to sell even ranch hunts at the Germany show unless the property is free ranging and unfenced. That's just the start I guess. I have stated in other posts I could never afford a lion hunt in the wild, but I would have most definitely hunted a raised lion, notice I said raised not canned. That "canned" lion will kill you just as quickly as a "wild" lion will. That I m certain of. So please all you high end guy's who are fortunate to be able to afford a wild lion hunt give us a break and stand by ALL hunters no matter what. If we have dissension in our ranks we are doomed. Wake up SCI!!! First for hunters? My BUTT!

 

[BRICKBURN]

Not flawed but probably not a true practice.

The company furnishing the lions for relocation in Brickburn's post, Phinda, is not a hunting company, so unfortunately the hunting business gets no credit for that one. http://www.andbeyond.com/conservati...-the-field/beyond-donates-lions-to-rwanda.htm
...............

Phinda is a reserve, just shared to demonstrate Lions can be translocated successfully.
Although the Phinda Reserve is 230 square km and it is certainly not a small enclosure.
Technically, the Lions are behind a fence.


I do not know the source of the Lions that were released into the Mozambique

 

[LivingTheDream]

Ok so here it goes since we are covering every type of hunting imaginable.

With regards to pen raised pheasants that are released, if they aren't raised the right way they will be so winded on the flush that they have to land back within the hunting area, I have seen it. If they are raised the right way they can possibly escape. How many Kansas pheasants are wild pheasants, did a drive and jumped 13 cock birds and not a single hen, wow what are the odds. Many are grown in large enclosed areas with little human interaction, raised the right way. Everyone says that is hunting.

In Texas the oryx is a success story for conservation and hunters it all takes place behind a fence. Is this success story because all of the wild ones were poached? With fences and hunters supporting this practice, hunters would probably be blamed for another extinct species.

I was able to hunt a lioness, I saw a Lion kill, we tracked it for 3kms, never saw a fence in 2 days of hunting, the area was huge. Being captive breed didn't take away from the experience, I can still hear the lions roaring at night.

For those that will only hunt the wild lions, I am happy for you and will argue to the death for your right to do it. When Cecil happen did the anti's go end wild Lion hunting and just have the captive lions. No they said end all Lion hunting. They will not stop, they aren't screaming to end captive breed hunting, they are screaming to end all of it. Not just lions, look at the airlines banning the big 5, why cape buffalo, because it big name item and it hurts hunters, not a damn thing about conservation.

How do released pheasants promote conservation? How do oryx in Texas promote conservation? Nothing we do in hunting to an anti promotes conservation, until there is none left but whats on hunting farms and they go oh shit.

If you look at IUCN data there is hardly any wild lions in South Africa. How many wild lions get hunted? This effectively will end hunting lions in South Africa, is that what anyone really wants?

Sorry for the rant, but I hate in-fighting between hunters you know anti's troll this site and eat this stuff up.

 

[Mike70560]

Brickburn,

I was at Coutada Nine in 2010 soon after they released the lions (in Mozambique) and actually saw one of them. I am 99% sure they came from a non-hunting area in South Africa also.

Njiri Eco Lion in Mozambique

 

[BRICKBURN]

Lucky man Mike. Great picture.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Not flawed but probably not a true practice.

The company furnishing the lions for relocation in Brickburn's post, Phinda, is not a hunting company, so unfortunately the hunting business gets no credit for that one. http://www.andbeyond.com/conservati...-the-field/beyond-donates-lions-to-rwanda.htm

I struggle with this issue. It is hard for me to say any form of hunting should be banned. I also believe we have ethical and moral responsibilities as hunters. The problem is my ethics are different from yours and your are different from his and his are different from hers.

If the operators would have put self-imposed measures in place years ago restricting the size of the hunting area and how long the lion would be released in the wild I believe we would be in better shape than we are now. However that would drive the price up considering how may trophy kudu sable etc a lion can eat in a month.

Who knows maybe conservation themed sales could be the market that replaces the canned hunting.

Don't doubt it's not the practice today, merely thinking about what might could be. Regarding self-imposed measures....I've found it true that no matter what it is in life, proactive management is always better than reactive management.

 

[zenbear]

Hi,
The reality is that hunting in Africa is an amazing and wholesome experience. The only way to combat the "bad" press is with "good" press. In my book , which is a collection of short stories is a story simply titled "Africa". In the writing of the story I always do due diligence. One of the things I did look at , was other stories based in Africa. I was a little surprised to find very little has been written in the past decade. I would encourage PHASA to organize a media strategy. The truth is on the side of the ethical hunting industry in Africa. The old stories of the invincible PH against the man eaters are charming but the message is hard to "sell" in todays world. We know that the operations in Africa have changed so much since then. Things like conservation and sustainability must be a part of the story. The message must be exciting and relevant.
I can tell everyone that bow hunting for plains game is among the best on the planet. That most of the concessions are offering wonderful and exciting experiences at a great value. It takes so much more positive press to overcome negative issues such as the "Cecil" debacle or the fear of viral infections. It will take a real and focused effort to make headway. I know it probably sounds awful but the battleground is in North America and Europe.
I am working on my next book and since my editor liked the "Africa " story I am trying to get a story or two for this book based in Africa. I have been trying to set something up. Though the people I hunted with before (Motsomi Safaris) are wonderful I need something different. (We are trying to figure out an option or two.) I have been very frustrated. I suffer from most of the things most authors do. In todays writing world authors get very little if any logistical support from their publisher. So we venture into far away places with only what we find from fellow journalist and the internet. The other reality is that none of us are millionaires.
We (writers) need to come up with stories that excite our publishers. Then we need to try and make that happen. Finally we need to write the work in such a way that it makes for good reading while at the same time sheds light on the wonderment of the place.( In this example the Dark Continent. )
Coming the long way around the barn, PHASA needs to have a plan to work with overseas media to get the message out. I know some of you have seen my past post looking for situations. I am sure some of you have rolled your eyes but aside from this site and a few sportsmen shows there is very little for us. New books need to be written. Though we all love the Capstick wild adventures, todays world needs something that has a sensitivity for balance . We need to portray the excitement of the exotic while showing the balance of ecology and the necessary economics that create a true and effective protection of the species we all want to see flourish.

My two cents- less inflation = about a half a cent.

thanks for reading-Jerry

 

[Dragan N.]

Exactly. Particularly a practice which a meaningful part of the hunting population also finds a least questionable if not reprehensible.

That's a bit of a slippery slope because that statement could be applied to trophy hunting in general. If you look at the general non-hunting population who are indifferent to hunting, they are in most cases ok or at least are somewhat tolerant of people who hunt for meat/food. You will also find meat hunters who find trophy hunting reprehensible or questionable.

A number of "non trophy" hunters find even wild lion hunting distasteful and would not view it as true hunting. It comes off to them as some bored rich guy who is being pampered on a 100k hunt and staying in 5 star accommodations with a team of trackers, skinners, and 1 or more PHs doing all the work just to set him up for a shot at a rare and expensive animal. A lot of the real work and experience of a do it yourself hunt is lost. Tracking, shooting, and packing out an animal by yourself is a different experience from having an entire team working for you. Now obviously a do it yourself hunt is not feasible in a foreign country or an area you have zero experience in. But nevertheless non hunters and even some members of the general hunting community find trophy hunting questionable. Should it be banned as well?

Now I personally am not a fan of canned lion or any fenced hunting in general but first this form of hunting will be banned. When the antis have accomplished that then they will go after "trophy hunting" in general and once that is banned then they will move on to ban all hunting in general. Which is why in my opinion this issue might be a harbinger of things or bans to come.

 

[BRICKBURN]

France bans imports of lion hunt trophies
Officials told to stop issuing import permits for lion heads, paws and skins, while country considers stricter controls on other species

A lion skin as a trophy from a hunt in Namibia. Photograph: Ton Koene/Alamy
Adam Vaughan

France has banned the import of lion heads, paws and skins as hunters’ trophies, nearly four months after the killing of Zimbabwe’s most famous lion by an American trophy hunter sparked international outrage.

In a letter to the actor and animals rights activist Brigitte Bardot, France’s environment minister, Ségolène Royal, said that she had instructed officials to stop issuing permits for lion trophies and was considering stricter controls on trophies from other species.

“Following your letter and recent visits in Africa in preparation of the climate summit in Paris, I want to let you know I have given orders to my services to stop delivering certificates for importing lion trophies,” Royal wrote in the letter dated 12 November.

“Concerning other species trophies, I am in favour of a much stronger control for hunting trophies and this issue will be discussed with all the countries concerned and with the EU.”

In July, conservationists and MEPs called for an EU-wide ban on the import of lion trophies following the death of Cecil the lion at the hands of a Minnesotan dentist near one of Zimbabwe’s national parks. France is the first EU state to implement such a ban. In March, Australia also banned their import.

Between 2010 and the 2013, the last year for which data is available, more than 100 such lion trophies were imported to France.

Lionaid, a UK-based charity that is calling for the UK to follow suit with a ban on lion trophy imports, said it was “overjoyed” by the move.

A spokeswoman said: “Within the EU, France was a major importer of such trophies and we expect that wild lions will now find themselves safer without the presence of French trophy hunters.

“We trust that France’s decision will create a domino effect within the EU and that we will soon hear about other member states joining together to say no [to trophies].”

Catherine Bearder, a Liberal Democrat MEP who led calls for a ban in the summer, said was “delighted” by France’s decision and the UK should follow its lead.

The EU’s scientific review group, which decides whether or not to blacklist trophy imports based on the sustainability of species, met in September and approved the continued import of lion trophies from Tanzania, Zambia and Mozambique.

Last month, scientists warned that lion numbers in central and western Africa are likely to halve in the next two decades due to loss of habitat and prey.

www.theguardian.com

 

[johnnyblues]

No end in sight fellas!

 

[LivingTheDream]

With France's move we are seeing the slow death march of Lion hunting.

With PHASA latest move, import bans and airline bans, I'm glad I did my hunt when I did.

All of this really breaks my heart, to lose a battle where science, logic and common sense are all on one side and lose none the less is very hard to swallow.