The 404 Jeffery history and related information

[Nick Wayne]

My dad and I are working on completing this project this summer. It’s said to have been a standard issue service rifle for the Tanganyika Game Department. Today I learned it was possibly a Jeffrey. I’m looking for a stock to complete it. If anyone has any suggestions or a stock that will fit it or has any information about this rifle or can help it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Huvius]

Your barreled action is an original magnum length Mauser made in 1932.
The front sight is very 'Jeffery" style but I'd be surprised if it is a Jeffery built rifle that the name or address isn't on the top of the barrel.
The number on the bolt doesn't match the action so, it was swapped at some point and that would only be possible if there were more than one magnum length rifle in the same place at the same time - as would be the case in a game department setting. So that is all possible.
You won't find a stock very easily as these magnum action length rifles are super rare.
That said, if done properly, it will be quite a valuable rifle!

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Your barreled action is an original magnum length Mauser made in 1932.
The front sight is very 'Jeffery" style but I'd be surprised if it is a Jeffery built rifle that the name or address isn't on the top of the barrel.
The number on the bolt doesn't match the action so, it was swapped at some point and that would only be possible if there were more than one magnum length rifle in the same place at the same time - as would be the case in a game department setting. So that is all possible.
You won't find a stock very easily as these magnum action length rifles are super rare.
That said, if done properly, it will be quite a valuable rifle!

It is my understanding very few Mauser magnum length actions were made between the world wars (e.g. Harry Selby's 416 Rigby had to be built on standard action because almost no magnum actions were available). Also, I thought most of the govt African game culling 404s were built on standard action Mausers. Hard to believe the govt would use scarce and no doubt expensive magnum action Mausers for issue to public servants. Easy enough to check: magnum action is 9 1/4" from front of receiver ring to end of the tang. If you read the history at the beginning of this thread, it confirms the 404 cartridge was designed for standard length Mausers because magnum actions were not available to Jeffery.

Here's the 404J I built on a standard Czech 98 Mauser. If Nick's dad's rifle is a standard length Mauser, and I'm fairly certain it is, finding another stock would be easy. Lots to pick from. The stock on mine is actually second-hand I picked up very reasonably from an online auction site. Required slight modification and refinishing.

 

[Huvius]

It is my understanding very few Mauser magnum length actions were made between the world wars (e.g. Harry Selby's 416 Rigby had to be built on standard action because almost no magnum actions were available). Also, I thought most of the govt African game culling 404s were built on standard action Mausers. Hard to believe the govt would use scarce and no doubt expensive magnum action Mausers for issue to public servants. Easy enough to check: magnum action is 9 1/4" from front of receiver ring to end of the tang. If you read the history at the beginning of this thread, it confirms the 404 cartridge was designed for standard length Mausers because magnum actions were not available to Jeffery.

They were't available when the 404 was invented but were later and Jeffery made some of their 333s and 404s on magnum actions and Mauser made some Type A 404s on their magnum length action as well.
The giveaway is the straddle floorplate (the plate extending back around the sides of the trigger guard) and the front action lug is set so far back under the receiver ring.
In 1932, the magnum actions were priced the same as the action used for 375s ($70) and five dollars more than the actions used for 9.3x62 or 10.75mm ($65). That's retail pricing in the 1931-32 Stoeger catalog!

 

[Ontario Hunter]

They were't available when the 404 was invented but were later and Jeffery made some of their 333s and 404s on magnum actions and Mauser made some Type A 404s on their magnum length action as well.
The giveaway is the straddle floorplate (the plate extending back around the sides of the trigger guard) and the front action lug is set so far back under the receiver ring.
In 1932, the magnum actions were priced the same as the action used for 375s ($70) and five dollars more than the actions used for 9.3x62 or 10.75mm ($65). That's retail pricing in the 1931-32 Stoeger catalog!

The locking lug on my standard action 404 Mauser:

Appears to me to be in same location as Nick's.

He can measure the length of the action. That will tell the tale.

 

[Huvius]

Action lug - meaning the lug underneath the receiver ring where the front screw goes into the bottom of the action.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Action lug - meaning the lug underneath the receiver ring where the front screw goes into the bottom of the action.

Which is exactly where mine is. I think I have a photo on my old phone from when I was building the rifle. Nope. But here's a historic photo of a 1905 Jeffery built 404 on standard action showing modifications to magazine. Note that the wooden stock was used for sides of the box. The front of the magazine "box" is a piece of leather (or metal?) tacked to inside of the stock cavity.

As you can see, the action recoil lug is the same as Nick's dad's rifle.

By 1930s Jeffery would be making cartridge specific bottom metal with proper sidewalls for their standard action 404s which would explain the different floorplate. It was entirely different bottom metal. Why wouldn't the floorplate be different?

 

[Huvius]

No, it is not.
Just look how much more the receiver ring extends past the lug on Nick’s action.
That is because the screw hole spacing is the same (or close) but the OAL of the action is longer.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

No, it is not.
Just look how much more the receiver ring extends past the lug on Nick’s action.
That is because the screw hole spacing is the same (or close) but the OAL of the action is longer.

Ah. I see. If that is where all the length difference has been added to magnum action, it really should not be difficult to make a standard action stock work. Simply carve out what's needed to make room for longer locking ring. No need to be terribly precise with the carving because that section should be bedded anyway.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

My dad and I are working on completing this project this summer. It’s said to have been a standard issue service rifle for the Tanganyika Game Department. Today I learned it was possibly a Jeffrey. I’m looking for a stock to complete it. If anyone has any suggestions or a stock that will fit it or has any information about this rifle or can help it would be greatly appreciated.View attachment 765454

How does the bore look? Are you wanting to restore it to appearance as a well used collectible game dept rifle or restore it as a classic shooting rifle?

 

[Nick Wayne]

How does the bore look? Are you wanting to restore it to appearance as a well used collectible game dept rifle or restore it as a classic shooting rifle?

The bore is great. I think we’re just going to put a stock on it for now. It might be restored later.

 

[Nick Wayne]

The locking lug on my standard action 404 Mauser:
View attachment 765486
Appears to me to be in same location as Nick's.
View attachment 765487
He can measure the length of the action. That will tell the tale.

It’s a standard action

 

[Nick Wayne]

It is my understanding very few Mauser magnum length actions were made between the world wars (e.g. Harry Selby's 416 Rigby had to be built on standard action because almost no magnum actions were available). Also, I thought most of the govt African game culling 404s were built on standard action Mausers. Hard to believe the govt would use scarce and no doubt expensive magnum action Mausers for issue to public servants. Easy enough to check: magnum action is 9 1/4" from front of receiver ring to end of the tang. If you read the history at the beginning of this thread, it confirms the 404 cartridge was designed for standard length Mausers because magnum actions were not available to Jeffery.

Here's the 404J I built on a standard Czech 98 Mauser. If Nick's dad's rifle is a standard length Mauser, and I'm fairly certain it is, finding another stock would be easy. Lots to pick from. The stock on mine is actually second-hand I picked up very reasonably from an online auction site. Required slight modification and refinishing.
View attachment 765483

After measuring it is a standard action.

 

[Nick Wayne]

Your barreled action is an original magnum length Mauser made in 1932.
The front sight is very 'Jeffery" style but I'd be surprised if it is a Jeffery built rifle that the name or address isn't on the top of the barrel.
The number on the bolt doesn't match the action so, it was swapped at some point and that would only be possible if there were more than one magnum length rifle in the same place at the same time - as would be the case in a game department setting. So that is all possible.
You won't find a stock very easily as these magnum action length rifles are super rare.
That said, if done properly, it will be quite a valuable rifle!

How did you find it was a 1932?

 

[Huvius]

After measuring it is a standard action.

You sure?

Magnum at the top. This illustrates the longer receiver ring better than I can explain it.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

The bore is great. I think we’re just going to put a stock on it for now. It might be restored later.

That is interesting. The bore was cleaned and cared for but the rest of the gun rather neglected, or at least used very hard. I'm glad to hear you have a shooter to work with.

Finding a standard action 98 Mauser stock should not be hard. I see them up on eBay all the time. The above is actually the second stock for my rifle. The first was a semi-finished rough one I found on a Canadian auction site. It required quite a bit of work. Of course the magazine well had to be opened to accept the 416 Remington bottom metal I acquired (which handled 404 without modification even though dimensions don't meet Paul Mauser's formula found at beginning of this thread). End of the fore end was buggered by stock making machine so I cut it off and made a tip from zebrawood (all I could get my hands on during COVID). The stock came with one forward crossbolt and I added a second internal one behind the mag box. Whatever stock you decide on should have two crossbolts (unless synthetic ... ugh!). Making and fitting internal crossbolts is actually an easy procedure. I can help you with that or you can view Larry Potterfield's online video (Midway Gun Parts). The second stock, though originally fit for an African gun of some sort, still required quite a bit of modification. Someone tried to fit a side safety and made a bit of a mess. Had to clean that up. Though its former action must have been big bore African (large barrel trough and no forward sling swivel = barrel band sling; also the magazine well was already magnum size), it had no crossbolts and the stock was starting to suffer for it (two small internal cracks). I added two Winchester crossbolts. They are the easiest external crossbolts to install but still not easy even with the specialized shop equipment I had available to me. Required making a special jig. The wrist of this stock was quite a bit thinner than military. Consequently, the tang would not pull down tight into the stock without trimming the rear action screw and removing a bit of metal from rear top edges of bottom metal magazine box. Then I had to reshape the Timney trigger shoe so it would clear the inside of trigger guard. The stock's thin wrist concerned me with such a heavy recoiling rifle so I added a 3/16" steel rod through the wrist from the rear of tang slot. I designed a special jig for the purpose. Larry Potterfield video shows him drilling the hole by hand. Not advisable! Too easy for the drill to wander. The reinforcement rod needs to go down through the center of pistol grip. Anyway, the moral of the story is buying a used stock can come with a lot of hidden issues. It's why this pretty piece of finished and checkered wood was sold so cheap (the vendor did alert me to thin wrist). I already had a very nice stock finished that I could fall back on if the used one couldn't be made to work. Why not give it a go? Kept me busy for a while and the end product added a lot of value to the gun. I still need to change the recoil pad.

If you buy an semi-finished "inletted" wood stock for standard action 98 Mauser (aka "large ring" Mauser), you will need to change the magazine box opening to fit your larger bottom metal (almost certainly would also be necessary if buying a used stock). It's not rocket science. A Dremel tool with sanding drum attachment works well for carving it out. The Dremel tool with carving bit is all you'd need to add internal crossbolts. They are not as "classical" as external crossbolts but they serve the purpose (a design that originated at Weatherby and if they can stand up to his cartridges' recoil, internal crossbolts can certainly handle anything 404 will dish out).

 

[Ontario Hunter]

You sure?

Magnum at the top. This illustrates the longer receiver ring better than I can explain it.
View attachment 765542

I suspect factory magnum bottom metal could have been used when converting standard action Mausers into 404. Perhaps the magnum actions were not available but Jeffery could still have made their own bottom metal. The action screw location is the same.* Using 416 Remington magnum bottom metal is exactly what I did when I built my 404 on standard action.

However, looking at your photos and my action I agree that the extended locking ring does seem to account for most if not all the extra overall length of magnum action. He must have a magnum action. A standard action is 8.75" from front edge of locking ring to rear end of tang. A magnum action is half an inch longer. Magnum action also has a longer ejection/loading port which was apparently accomplished by extending the port rearward, relocating the ejector rearward, and making the bolt longer vs carving into the locking ring when building 375 H&H on a standard action. The good news is apparently only the ejectors on Mauser actions were modified. Looking at my rifle and Nick's images I can see the bolt release on the left side of his receiver is in the same location as my standard action so the stock for both actions would be the same in that area.

I can see no reason* why he could not easily fit his magnum action into standard action stock. It would require relieving some wood to make room for extended locking ring but unless it's a real skinny stock, that shouldn't be a problem. Any semi-finished standard action stock should have plenty of extra wood in that area. Of course, the magazine well in the stock would need to be opened up enough for the 404 bottom metal to fit, but that would have to be done in any event unless Nick could find a used 404J magnum stock to drop his action into. Good luck with that! I imagine most of the very rare used magnum stocks available would be made for 375 H&H or 416 Rigby with magazine wells in the stock that would be significantly larger than 404. Gaps could be filled with bedding material but it's always desirable to retain as much wood as possible. I would advise making a standard action stock fit his magnum action. Guaranteed to have a better fit.

*The only issue that MIGHT be of concern is magazine capacity. How many 404 cartridges does his hold in the magazine? If it holds four, that would be a problem fitting his action into standard action stock. The above comparison photo of different Mauser actions does appear to show a longer magazine box for magnum, presumably to make it 4+1. However, I cannot tell from Nick's photos if his magazine is extended (wrong angle photo) but kinda looks like it isn't. Hopefully. His gun has been through the mill obviously. If it is 4+1 and he wants a quick solution to just make it a shooter, I think it could be changed to 3+1 fairly easily and put it in a standard action stock. Would almost be a shame to do that though given how hard it is to find magnum actions of that vintage. Another solution to a 4+1 magazine might be to set aside the original bottom metal and replace it with new 3+1 bottom metal. I used Swift-Blackburn 416 Remington magnum bottom metal (standard 3+1 not "extended") and it worked perfectly. However, I was tuning my 8mm military rails to work with that bottom metal. Nick's rails would already be machined for Mauser cos 30° specs. His rails MIGHT already be opened up too wide at the shoulder for slightly narrower 416 box. That POSSIBLY could lead to cartridges jumping the rails prematurely. Dicey but it might work.

 

[Huvius]

How did you find it was a 1932?

Mauser #111496
The dating tables/list are in Speed’s book.

 

[Huvius]

I have seen one magnum length action in a standard length stock before.
All that’s really obvious is a gap in the wood behind the sides of the receiver ring which could be filled with a fillet of wood.
Then the magazine width and depth would also need to be addressed. The one I saw had the magazine extending below the wood line and didn’t look all that nice.
At least that could get this rifle back in action so to speak.

 

[Josh P]

Mauser #111496
The dating tables/list are in Speed’s book.

Thank you. I saw his post on social media and knew this would be a better resource for solid info.

I’m away from home (hopefully this baby will see fit to be born tomorrow or the next day) and was working with limited resources to get him some relevant information. In the age of technology, sometimes the hard copy is the best resource.