Straight vs Hogback Butt stock on a Double Rifle

Discussion in 'Double Rifles' started by limpopo, Dec 15, 2018.

  1. limpopo

    limpopo AH Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2010
    Messages:
    33
    Video/Photo:
    13
    Likes Received:
    49
    Member of:
    NRA Life
    Hunted:
    RSA, Botswana, Zimbabwe
    Wondering the functional purpose for the European Hogback style buttstock on a double or any rifle for that matter. Better eye alignment/weld for iron sights? Any difference in how they handle recoil (more muzzle rise etc) ? Appreciate some information and experience from the panel of knowledge that resides here. Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2018

  2. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Elite

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2018
    Messages:
    1,268
    Likes Received:
    1,129
    the lower the buttple is in relation to the bore line, the more the thing will tear out of your hand in recoil if a big cartridge.
    also this muzzle rise will make follow up shots slower.
    and possibly hit you in the cheekbone.
    the modern straight stock has evolved for a reason.
    even pre ww2 h&h , rigby, etc stocks will be a problem like this, due to drop at heel.
    bruce.
     

  3. limpopo

    limpopo AH Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2010
    Messages:
    33
    Video/Photo:
    13
    Likes Received:
    49
    Member of:
    NRA Life
    Hunted:
    RSA, Botswana, Zimbabwe
    Thanks Bruce for all the scenarios, especially meaningful when you start to go "Big" in caliber.
     

  4. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Elite

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2018
    Messages:
    1,268
    Likes Received:
    1,129
    beautiful is is as beautiful does.
    those hogbacks are just plain butt ugly (pun intended) on both counts, performance and distasteful lines.
    stocks have evolved a way since hogbacks ,, and the old english classic, with the modern american classic straight stock being the ultimate in lines and functionality.
    bruce.
     
    BeeMaa likes this.

  5. BeeMaa

    BeeMaa AH Elite

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2017
    Messages:
    1,498
    Video/Photo:
    47
    Likes Received:
    1,622
    Location:
    Eastern US
    Member of:
    NRA Life Member, SCI
    Hunted:
    Eastern US & RSA
    No one ever said "Look at the beautiful lines on that VW Beetle"...ever.
    Not to mention that they are about as useful as a hogback stock.
     

  6. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    Messages:
    4,422
    Video/Photo:
    242
    Likes Received:
    9,563
    Location:
    Texas Hill Country
    Member of:
    SCI DSC life memberships / NRA Patron Life
    Hunted:
    Mexico, Namibia, RSA, Germany, Austria, Argentina, Canada, Mozambique, Spain, US (15 states)
    The English style stock is still the best for a double rifle - it was created with that rifle and open sights in mind and is still just about perfect for that application. The best in the world still are the H&H Royal, Rigby Rising Bite, and Westley Richards. There is no "American" style counterpart for double rifles of which I am aware. One also rarely sees a "hogback" style stock on a Continental double rifle either. The raised comb as used on some German bolt action rifles and, of course famously, the Weatherby, was one solution to getting the shooter's eye appropriately positioned to use a telescopic sight. It works. The American straight comb works as well, except that it can sometimes be so high as to leave the iron sights useless (see some recent Rugers). Or the shooter trades a bruised cheek (trying to get low enough to use the irons) for less upward recoil momentum. What one sees on most purpose built DG rifles today is a compromise of the American and British styles. The butt will be relatively straight, but still retain enough drop to allow instinctive use of the iron sights for a follow-up (a very "English" concept). It is the forend that is typically longer and fuller on a rifle marketed in this country - in the "American" tradition. My Rigby Highland Stalker follows that butt stock compromise formula as do my Blaser S2 and R8. They seem to work awfully well.
     
    ve7poi, HWL, Von Gruff and 1 other person like this.

  7. Von Gruff

    Von Gruff AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    May 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,841
    Video/Photo:
    1,314
    Likes Received:
    3,276
    Hunted:
    New Zealand, Austaralia
    So that begs the question of just what is the right amount of drop at heel for rifle if irons are to be used. For myself I like 1 3/4 for medium bores (this is in for a bolt rifle) but the principle is the same and I find I have a low to mid cheek hold for the low set scope and a good instinctive high cheek hold for the irons. The other good thing is that I have a more heads up stance which enhances vision over what is usual with a minimum drop at heel stock
     

  8. bushy

    bushy AH Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    10
    I am not as well versed with large caliber rifles as most on here but I tend to find the Bavarian style stocks more to my liking, they seem to feel nicer, come up faster with instinctual sight alignment for offhand, kneeling or sitting positions while the American style stock seems to work better while shooting from the prone position or off of a bench.
     
    fsrmg1 likes this.

  9. fsrmg1

    fsrmg1 AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    161
    Video/Photo:
    6
    Likes Received:
    117
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    Member of:
    SSAA, NRA, BGRC, MMA
    Hunted:
    AK, US, AU, DE, CZ
    I've noticed that with a good cut Bavarian stock, it seems to fit both with a scope and is just as comfortable with it off using open sights.

    As far as recoil goes, the drop at the heal from the bore axis is what gives you the whip on big kickers. A Bavarian stock doesn't have as much drop as you would think by the looks.

    My 9.3mm kicks straight back with little wip and is very functionable and comfortable to shoot.

    Each of us are built different, so the best thing to do is try it for fit. It might be ugly to you, but fit like glove.

    Almost forgot to add that my Beretta 9.3 has a set of 20 ga barrels, which shoot naturally as well when using this stock.

    This is my experience from shooting as well, not a gun writer's who hasn't tried and is just repeating stuff they read from an older article written by someone who doesn't know as well...
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018

  10. BC.Pat

    BC.Pat AH Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    390
    Video/Photo:
    8
    Likes Received:
    361
    Location:
    Victoria, British Columbia
    Hunted:
    Botswana , Namibia, Sierra Leone
    Great tread, very interesting to read & learn about stock design.
    Thanks for sharing !
    Pat
     

Share This Page

 
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice