Straight pull rifles Re they noisy?

Discussion in 'Firearms & Ammunition' started by CBH Australia, Sep 24, 2019.

  1. CBH Australia

    CBH Australia AH Enthusiast

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    In another thread I learned a bit about straight pull rifles and the Krieghoff Sempri pump action. I went off and googled stuff and dreamed my next big purchase before I tried to rationalise why I might need it. I get the take down aspect and multi calibre option. I like the Strasser R14 Evolution too.
    Are they noisy to cycle? Reason I ask that is my Brother was keen on a Browning Maral. It is the only straight pull I noticed that is spring loaded to return the bolt. Now we would mostly carry on an empty chamber and try cycle a Round quietly if we get in position to take a shot. In that case it could be noisy. Can a Blaser be cycled quietly or more quietly than it would be done hurriedly?
    I get these things being great for a driven hunt etc just wondering about the noise when cycling in a stalking situation.
    Our hunting situation would likely hunting pigs Nd we might take a shot at 100-200 m if we see the opportunity or we might startle something close and the straight pull would be an advantage, particularly if thee are a few.
    A Remington 7600 pump action will do and will be heaps cheaper but it’s the same thoughts on noise cycling the action, and who doesnt want a . Pretty rifle if we can justify it?
     
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  2. BeeMaa

    BeeMaa AH Elite

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    The Blaser R8 manual cocking system allows you to chamber a round when you get off the truck AND de-cock the rifle.
    Therefore the rifle can be safely carried and only the noise of cocking the rifle is necessary when ready to shoot.
    Maximizes safety and minimizing noise at the same time.
     
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  3. Trail Rated

    Trail Rated AH Member

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    If you want straight pull AND inexpensive, consider a vintage Steyr Mannlicher Model 95, Swiss K-31 or a Canadian Ross rifle. Not sure how easy they are to re-chamber.

    I hunt with a Steyr and it isn’t as easy to cycle quietly as a traditional turnbolt, but like the Blaser it can be de-cocked and made safe with a round in the chamber.
     

  4. Hoss Delgado

    Hoss Delgado AH Fanatic

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    Finnish Sniper , Simo " White Death " Hayha always preferred a Finnish Straight pull Mosin in 7.62 calibre for all his kills :) These guns have the advantage of a super fast chambering . Based on the rifles l fired in this configuration , they are not very noisy at all
     
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  5. Pondoro

    Pondoro AH Fanatic

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    Well, the Moisin Nagant is not a straight-pull design, you cycle them as with any conventional bolt rifles..
     
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  6. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    @BeeMaa is exactly right. Huge advantage of the Blaser cocking system. Even if you have a Luddite as a PH demanding an empty chamber on an R8 (have yet to meet one) the action can be worked slowly and relatively quietly.

    Must be a unique cache of Mosin Nagants you were shooting. The Mosin has any number of attributes - chief among them robustness. Speed of action cycling would not be one. It is a relatively conventional If primitive bolt action. It merely has a horizontal bolt handle like early military Mausers. Though Hayha did use one.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
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  7. Kawshik Rahman

    Kawshik Rahman AH Fanatic

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    Since 2017 , l have owned a beautiful magnum .22 Rifle made by the Austrian Firm , ISSC . It is the SPA model. It has an unusual bolt system which is a straight pull design but is most convenient to use. The speed at which one can move the bolt to chamber cartridges from the magazine ( which holds ten cartridges ) is impressive. Regarding noise , the click sound is quite audible , but so far l have not had any problems in the field. I used mine on two Sambhar deer successfully with the shot aimed for the neck. Mouse deer are very alert animals and require careful stalking every year when they come from the Moulvibazaar forests. I have shot several in the Sylhet tea gardens using this rifle without alerting them . I think you will be alright .
     
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  8. Kawshik Rahman

    Kawshik Rahman AH Fanatic

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    I have seen these in the Liberation war. They operate like the .303 calibre former service Lee Enfield Rifle of the British military .
    Perhaps your specimen was customized in some way ?
     
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  9. Hoss Delgado

    Hoss Delgado AH Fanatic

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    No No No No No. I have fired Straight pull rifles ! But l have NOT fired the Mosin Nagant ( yet :( ) . I used to THINK that the rifle used by Simo Hayha was a straight pull but l looked at a you tube video just now . The Nagant is not a straight pull rifle and you guys are right :)
     
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  10. Hoss Delgado

    Hoss Delgado AH Fanatic

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    Mouse deer taste really good . I shot two in the East side hills in 2016 . I shot mine using #1 bird shot from my 10 gauge Browning Gold Semi :) .
     
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  11. Kawshik Rahman

    Kawshik Rahman AH Fanatic

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    Hoss ,
    yes , they taste excellent. I take it that you have shot them in the Chittagong hills as you have said east side. I have shot a few with my 12 bore shot-gun and number 3 shot. However , the specimens which l have shot in the Sylhet tea gardens were shot in privately owned land and l did not wish to disturb the owners, Mr. and Mrs. Ispahani with loud shots from a 12 bore . But if l did , l am certain they would not mind as l have used my 12 bore there before . I find it more sporting to use a rifle on these creatures.
     
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  12. CBH Australia

    CBH Australia AH Enthusiast

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    @Redleg 6 im not familiar with the term Luddite other than what I just googled on Wikipedia

    Carrying on an empty chamber is just how I learned . I was taught not to rely on. Safety.

    The old Lithgow .22 from the 50s were plentiful in Australia, many people started on these. You load it and pull the cocking lever back to cock it.

    Generally I would carry on empty but that would change in some situations. DG if I ever get to it. My hunting is often walk long the creek hoping to get a pig where often I would have opportunity to load when required.

    How and when do people use these Blasers and others? In what situation? I suspect they are the go for driven hunt and obviously travellers like them.
    As someone who shoots from a vehicle to opportunistically destroy pests I would have this riding along for regular use. Even the Maral $2500 would be marked up. In no time. Most rifles do but those mentioned are nice examples of craftsmanship and engineering. On my budget they would be used cautiously. Thee was a hotel in here about using a fine rifle to do a dirty job? I’d like something Nice , but carrying in the bush to shoot pigs seems like too much gun, Start thinking a suitable scope or 2 that adds up.

    You are only human, so you were mistaken
    I don’t know those rifles at all. Well I know they exist, heard of them that’s the extent of it.
    My interest is guns, modern sporting arms and more hunting rifles I guess. I’d like to hunt exotics and DG but that’s a big list. I shoot pests mostly and just want to hone my skills.
     
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  13. mark-hunter

    mark-hunter AH Fanatic

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    They had a Blaser as camp rifle in Africa where I was on safari.
    It was used as any other rifle, on PG hunt. Round chambered, and rifle on safe.

    In my country (Croatia, EU).
    Gun culture is low. So many people who buy them, do that just because they are "expensive rifles" - to show their social status, whilst having no idea what they actually own!

    Depending on model, new blaser 08 will cost as average 6-month salary in Croatia (without scope), and upgraded models even more.
    One spare barrel for blaser will cost like entire lower end (but very usable) rifle.

    Some buy them because they look nice, especially models with best quality wood.

    Very few use them up to the rifles full potential: exchanging barrels, travelling in compact cases, etc.

    Driven hunts are common in winter time, and of course those who have blaser will use it in driven hunts.

    But we also have legal possibility for semiauto rifles (2+1 capacity), combination guns (in line with tradition), double bbl rifles (rare due to cost, but very appreciated), and various turn bolt rifles, plus all kind of shotguns with slugs. (semi auto 2+1, pump action, O/U, S/S, etc)
    So, in all this diversity of options for driven hunts, Blaser is rare to be seen in driven hunts, but it is present nevertheless.

    I have seen them also, owned by few fans, and shooting aficionados, using them on mathces in f-open, and f-tr class with semi weight or even ticker barrels, 6.5x47, or 6.5 CM, and 308 win cals. With good result.
    Typically it will be sub moa rifle.

    When choosing linear action rifle between merkel helix, and blaser 08 - one of my friends has chosen merkel helix.
    The reason, merkel helix (arabesca) was delivered with integral piccatiny rail, and that was the reason for him.
    Blaser needs its own mounts.

    On the other hand, on merkel, optics is mounted on receiver, and not on barrel, it has classic type of magazine in front of trigger so it is rifle longer in lenght.

    magazine on blaser will be on top of trigger, making it shorter for this lenght, and optic is mounted on bbl, so changing the barrels with scope, should not change the zero. (with merkel helix, after changing - barrels, rezeroring is certain with other caliber and same optics, whilst the blaser will need one optic per each barrel)

    Blaser is all about function, with top ergonomics as @Red Leg has put it.

    O yes, blaser has radial locking system, whilst merkel have rotational bolt head locking.
    Old version of r93, had some bad repution, allegedly - bolts exploding to users head.
    I have not heard the same for r 08, newer version - but I still remain biased against radial locking system - subjectively.

    My personal taste remains on turn bolt actions, I am old fashion traditionalist... so neither merkel helix or blaser are my cup of tea.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019

  14. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    Peace brother. I truly do not care what rifle you buy. I have merely attempted to respond to every objection or question you have posted on this, and I think two other threads - w/r to the R8. By the way, the most affordable R8 comes in a composite stock and has a state of the art metal finish that makes the rifle almost bomb-proof in that livery. I am sure it will hold up just fine out back down under.

    As I also have mentioned a number of times, I have rifles built on mausers - the 98 and others, P-14 and 17 actions, rifles with levers, a couple based on the ‘03, single shots, and doubles - and I love them all. When I go after a deer here in a few weeks, I’ll be using a ‘98 actioned .275 or a single shot 7x65R. Those two rifles are aesthetically and practically perfect for those animals in my backyard conditions. (Though probably not the most efficient solution). But when I go to the Kamchatka in April to be dragged around in the snow in a bleeding sled chasing the largest brown bears in the world, the rifle will be my Blaser R8 in it’s composite stock. When hunting In Austria earlier in the month, I was thrilled to find the loaner was a R93 in choice of .270 or .300. (I opted for the .270 and the action proved invaluable - hunting report forth coming).

    What I do not have much patience with, is creating or repeating a false narrative about a firearm as a justification not to purchase it. Or as in your case, leaving a question or assumption unanswered when I have extensive experience with that particular subject - in this case, the Blaser.

    To me, the unique functionality of the rifle is absolutely worth its relative premium cost. There are all sorts of absolutely valid justifications for not reaching that conclusion. For most of my hunting life, I would not have been able to justify that expense. But those justifications should have to do with economics, not some perceived, assumed or rumored flaw with the rifle. I can’t begin to afford to order a bespoke Rising Bite double rifle from Rigby. That’s simple economics. My Blaser S2 is perfectly adequate for my double rifle needs - but it is no Rigby Rising Bite. Everything is relative.

    And I have had a little bit of experience with every safety system yet put on a shotgun or rifle. The cocking systems used by both Blaser and Krieghoff are the best engineered, safest and most practical ever yet put in the field.

    So, don’t buy one. It is perfectly ok. You can use any argument you wish to convince yourself not to - that is also absolutely ok. And if you want to post them here, that is fine as well - you will just likely have to put up with my reasonably articulate responses or rebbutals ;). The curse of a good education and a bit of writing over the years.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
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  15. CBH Australia

    CBH Australia AH Enthusiast

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    @Redleg 6
    You have gone too a lot of trouble to explain you didn’t understand my questions. Perhaps make an effort to comprehend the question or carry the conversation before trying to come back with some sharp rebuttal. I don’t don’t think I’ve tried to do what you are saying.
    I’m just asking questions and asking how people use these and talking what sort of hunting I do at this point.
    I’m not familiar with the term Luddite or your use of it I thought you might elaborate. I thought maybe it was a term used commonly where you are from.
    I don’t be have an issue with the cocking system or the engineers design. I haven’t handled one. I’m asking questions on how people use it. Common practice?
    I like the look of it I’m not looking to buy one or talk my self out of it. I’m reading and asking questions s I like guns and I work in a remote area by myself. Travelling home on days off. My wife might talk me out of buying a $10,000 rifle system If I pose the question.
    I think it’s a nice bit of gear and maybe too nice to carry in the scrub or through the snow. I wish you well Lion and Big Brown Bear and Cape Buffalo would be my top 3 dream trophies. I’m not really a trophy hunter either. To date I have never had an animal mounted. I mostly shoot pests, I’d like to pursue big game but even Australian Buffalo are costly and a long way from me. At 47 I’m just starting to get ahead and do my thing the same as you have done.
    I’ve been reading about these and read up on the Strasser R14 Evolution and others. I’m trying to weigh up the pros and cons of each if I were to choose one. The Blaser seems to be the most popular and versatile system and I like the look of the Strasser. I think the cocking systems on these re similar but different. By that I think they all de-cock in someway taking the pressure off the cocking spring.
    I have not made any objection, conclusion or justification for not buying it, merely questions and comparisons. I have not heard any rumours or perceived flaws. I was asking questions about these and other fine rifles that I am not yet considering buying at this point. My opening question was around straight pull rifles being noisy on loading including the Maral. One that many others addressed succinctly.
     

  16. rnovi

    rnovi AH Enthusiast

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    Hello CBH,

    I want to compare three rifles in my safe: A Remington 700 (bolt), a Merkel Helix (straight pull), and a Merkel K1 (break action).

    The Remington 700 is the rifle by which most others get compared against. Let's just call it the median. It's fairly quiet to run the action, with the loudest part being when the cartridge comes out of the magazine and rattles loosely in the action/chamber. It's not loud and fairly controllable. But there is some noise.

    The Helix is significantly noisier. Not horrible, but the ratcheting rail the bolt slides on has some greater noise level. Moving slowly and deliberately you can minimize the sound...but the action itself operates on a 2 to 1 gearing...which makes it move faster and by default marginally louder.

    The quietest action I own, by FAR, is my Merkel K1 break action. It's effortless and less than a whisper. I daresay, it's as close to completely silent as can be made. Extractors allow the completely silent and manual removal of a cartridge...and the cocking mechanism is the barest (and you better be in a silent garage to hear it) click.

    I've worked the action on a Blaser R8 several times and I'd put the sound volume somewhere between a the Remington and the Helix. Louder than the Rem but not by much. The noise is when the Blaser bolt gets unlocked.

    If I was hunting in a place that required absolute deadness of sound, my K1 is my first and only choice. It's that quiet and that controllable.

    Hope that helps.
     
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  17. BeeMaa

    BeeMaa AH Elite

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    @CBH Australia
    I won't speak for @Red Leg as he is much more knowledgeable on the Blaser R8 than I.
    What I do know is that @Red Leg is speaking facts, the Blaser R8 system can be carried in the field with a round in the chamber safely.
    The with the rifle de-cocked there is no tension on the firing spring and the bolt is locked closed, keeping the round in the chamber.
    Cocking the rifle allows you to fire when you are just about ready to shoot.
    The system is simple and intuitive to use.
    Best of all, it's quiet to operate.

    Price is another story altogether, they are not cheap but you get what you pay for.
    They do make synthetic stocks for hard all-weather use and have one with a blind magazine, both of these options keep the cost down.

    Best of luck with it.
     
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  18. Pondoro

    Pondoro AH Fanatic

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    I am not a fan of the straight-pull rifles, Blasers or others. That said, the de-cocking function is definitely a step forward safetywise.

    I bought a Krieghoff big five in .470NE to get it in a double and I am very pleased with it...even an arch conservative anglophile like me have to admit the germans did some clever thinking here..
     

  19. Opposite Pole

    Opposite Pole AH Fanatic

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    There are traditional turn bolt rifles with decocking “safety” available too. Steyr makes some (SM12 and Monobloc) there is also the Sauer 404 and Mauser M03, perhaps other ones too.
     
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  20. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    I have only played with the Mo3 of a guide with whom I hunted - never taken one afield personally. Very nice rifle, however, I found it much less intuitive than the Krieghoff and Blaser versions. It also seems to bite the hand if not done correctly. I have never looked at the Steyr or Sauer versions.
     

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