Stock Forend Separated During Shipping So, Slightly Bummed

[Sid Post]

First of all, the rifle appears to have been packaged well so NO FAULT or negative feelings towards the seller! This is a really old rifle and I think it is mainly an age-related issue with the glue originally used. The rifle itself looks really nice, especially for something this old!

What should I do? And where should I send it to have it fixed properly? My initial thought is to add a couple dowels to the forend with wood glue to secure it for future use. I'm in East Texas about halfway between Dallas and Texarkana so, any recommendations within driving distance are appreciated. Otherwise, with CONUS shipping my options are pretty wide-open. I want to do the right thing not some basement hack from someone like myself, after all, I can run a drill and use wood glue for a simple dowel fix. I don't want to spend a lot of money on the stock but, I also want to take care of it properly too.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

TIA,
Sid

From the original for sale thread:

 

[gbflyer]

I don’t have a lot of experience with wood, however gluing end grain is something I have found difficult. I think your dowl reinforcement idea has merit. Using that process, it will be difficult to make the edges match up perfectly. Hopefully a good stock person can chime in. That’s a frustrating situation.

 

[rookhawk]

As the seller, I feel horrible. I thought I packed it really well, but perhaps even the climate changes in transit might have popped the glue.

The really, really good news is that the veneer (marquetry technically) between the tip and the forestock did chip or sheer.

A couple ways to fix it.

The easy, low-quality fix that might work just fine would be to remove the stock from the action, clamp it, and use a really high quality glue like Gorilla Glue. Making absolutely certain that a wet paper towel is used to clean the excess glue coming out of the seam repeatedly for the first 15-30 minutes of set up. ***Cleaning up excess glue after hardening without removing and re-applying a coat of oil finish is the challenge you're trying to avoid.

The expert gunstocker way to do it would be to find center on both pieces and join and glue them with a dowell, something that apparently the original design didn't rely upon.

Considering the quality of modern adhesives, I'd be inclined to do the glue method making absolutely certain there is no excess glue on the exterior during drying. Gorilla glue when properly clamped and set has a stronger sheer strength than the wood fibers.

 

[sgt_zim]

As the seller, I feel horrible. I thought I packed it really well, but perhaps even the climate changes in transit might have popped the glue.

The really, really good news is that the veneer (marquetry technically) between the tip and the forestock did chip or sheer.

A couple ways to fix it.

The easy, low-quality fix that might work just fine would be to remove the stock from the action, clamp it, and use a really high quality glue like Gorilla Glue. Making absolutely certain that a wet paper towel is used to clean the excess glue coming out of the seam repeatedly for the first 15-30 minutes of set up. ***Cleaning up excess glue after hardening without removing and re-applying a coat of oil finish is the challenge you're trying to avoid.

The expert gunstocker way to do it would be to find center on both pieces and join and glue them with a dowell, something that apparently the original design didn't rely upon.

Considering the quality of modern adhesives, I'd be inclined to do the glue method making absolutely certain there is no excess glue on the exterior during drying. Gorilla glue when properly clamped and set has a stronger sheer strength than the wood fibers.

I'll second that notion on Gorilla glue. Never used it for a gun stock, but I used to have a mare whose hooves were prone to splitting when she spent much time in the muck around the stock tank.

Gorilla glue to the rescue. Had to clean her hooves, of course, but the Gorilla would hold for about 2 weeks, then I'd do it again 2 or 3 more times until the splits had been completely reduced by the farrier. She weighed about 1050 or 1100 lbs.

 

[fourfive8]

Dang! Not supposed to do that as it is a "factory" type fore end tip. However it's a relatively easy repair but may require some refinish. Since the line spacer is still attached to one section make sure it is secure without any separation. Then the two sections will need to be pinned together with about an inch depth into each section. Use something like a good glass bedding compound. The tricky part is alignment of the two sections with the pins in place. A drill press is handy with both sides held to as near perpendicular as possible. Since the pins and holes will be completely hidden you can cheat a little by making the holes slightly larger than the pins. Two, 2" sections of allthread or threaded bolt shank about 3/8" diameter will work. Drill the slightly oversized holes to match location and axis, so both pieces will align as close as possible. Check for matching alignment before gluing together and if needed, wallow a little more to allow exact alignment. Apply thin coat of epoxy bedding compound to all mating surfaces and holes/pins. Put together with slight clamping pressure, making sure the two sections are aligned as perfectly as possible. Remove excess epoxy as it oozes out of the joint using alcohol or acetone on a rag. Allow about 24 hrs for hardening. Carefully and lightly sand using a block and 220-400 grit to original contour, removing minimal finish from each side. Touch up with small amounts of finish blending and feathering the edges to match the original as close as possible. Two or three very light coats and blending will probably do it.

 

[CJW]

As the seller, I feel horrible. I thought I packed it really well, but perhaps even the climate changes in transit might have popped the glue.

The really, really good news is that the veneer (marquetry technically) between the tip and the forestock did chip or sheer.

A couple ways to fix it.

The easy, low-quality fix that might work just fine would be to remove the stock from the action, clamp it, and use a really high quality glue like Gorilla Glue. Making absolutely certain that a wet paper towel is used to clean the excess glue coming out of the seam repeatedly for the first 15-30 minutes of set up. ***Cleaning up excess glue after hardening without removing and re-applying a coat of oil finish is the challenge you're trying to avoid.

The expert gunstocker way to do it would be to find center on both pieces and join and glue them with a dowell, something that apparently the original design didn't rely upon.

Considering the quality of modern adhesives, I'd be inclined to do the glue method making absolutely certain there is no excess glue on the exterior during drying. Gorilla glue when properly clamped and set has a stronger sheer strength than the wood fibers.

As someone who has repaired a few pieces of old furniture I'll tell you not to feel bad. Almost anything glued without a good solid joint is almost bound to separate at some point, especially when exposed to the elements of shipping handlers after years of swelling and shrinking on top of aging wood and glue.

What I would do is glue it myself but instead of doweling or just gluing the two flat surfaces as they are, I might add a few dimples on the face of each piece with an 1/8" drill bit to add some tooth for the glue to bite into. You are essentially making you own joint with the polyurethane glue.

The chances of doweling well enough for both pieces to line up perfectly are slim at best.

 

[Sid Post]

I'm a little hesitant to glue it myself as I don't want to mess up such a nice rifle. I'm headed to my local town to look for some furniture wax to protect the wood from moisture absorption induced swelling.

 

[rookhawk]

I'm a little hesitant to glue it myself as I don't want to mess up such a nice rifle. I'm headed to my local town to look for some furniture wax to protect the wood from moisture absorption induced swelling.

Sid, Don't wax the wood, you'll undermine adhesion of two perfectly matched pieces when you glue.

If you use Gorilla glue, you avoid needing solvents to clean the stock as the glue oozes out. Its water soluable or at least wet paper towel removes all glue that might come out of the seam. Any epoxies or harsher bonding glues will require clean up with a solvent. A solvent will eat that oil finish, turning a 15 minute repair into a full hand rubbed oil finish job that takes weeks and costs a lot of money. (I charge $350 when I do them because I hate doing them...gets rid of most people that ask!)

 

[Sid Post]

The only thing at the local Dollar General and Family Dollar were oil-based furniture polishes so it was a hard no to anything available to protect the wood locally.

Instead, I got a little cling wrap to protect it from the rains and humidity we have right now. The rifle stock section appears to have all the glue so I'm not too worried about it. The forend tip is wrapped to protect it from moisture intrusion so, I have some time to assess my options and buy some glue if I decide to go with the 'do it yourself' option.

 

[Sid Post]

Regarding furniture, glue joints typically do need to be reglued every few years. Moving during a household transition will generally ensure you need to reglue chair legs and similar things.

I do reglue a lot of wood as a beekeeper and someone who has inherited a lot of older furniture. Regluing a chair leg doesn't bother me at all but, I'm a bit hesitant to touch a nice stock like this one right now.

 

[nztimb]

If that rifle was in my hands I would make a template of the main forearm piece and mark the holes in it but I would use a trio of 1/8 in brass dowels as I do for forend tips. Most of the forearms I do are very slim and so the 1/8 inch pins give better ability to get three in but that looks to be a more substantial stock so a 1/4 inch brass rod would be my call. Always file in a few light "V" marks into the dowel to facilitate the best hold and I would use a top of the line epoxy.
With the pins marked in and drilled the template can be transfered to the tip and marked in as well. Make sure to use a hard backed sandpaper to clean off the faces and scuff the face to ensure a good grip. For a finished piece like this I would glue the brass pins into the forearm and clean all off and let the epoxy set. A dry try fit is next to make absolutely sure there is perfect allignment and this is were some judicial moving or reaming of any of the holes may be done to bring it all into its propper position. Epoxy the dowels and the face and put it together with something like a stretchy cord (bungy cord) through the magazine well and over the tip with plenty of tape and rag to make sure there is no marring of the finish. Wip off any squeeze out with dry cloth then do the same with a lighty acetoned cloth for final clean-up. Leave for 24 hours, remove cord and rag, reassemble the rifle and go enjoy your new purchase.

 

[Tra3]

My wife has collected a variety of old furniture (100-150 years old). We’ve found a shop that does refinish work and re-glueing, their work is excellent. The gent that runs the shop swears by the newer furniture glues, but I failed to get a product name. I’m curious if it is just gorilla glue, or if there is a different, special product for wood?

And as a side note, I’m a hobby beekeeper and my bees are now in Texas, sheltering from this mild Minnesota winter. Try propolis for the rifle stock glue!

 

[CJW]

My wife has collected a variety of old furniture (100-150 years old). We’ve found a shop that does refinish work and re-glueing, their work is excellent. The gent that runs the shop swears by the newer furniture glues, but I failed to get a product name. I’m curious if it is just gorilla glue, or if there is a different, special product for wood?

And as a side note, I’m a hobby beekeeper and my bees are now in Texas, sheltering from this mild Minnesota winter. Try propolis for the rifle stock glue!

Gorilla and titebond make polyurethane glues which are very strong and good for many surfaces including two non porous surfaces if you add some moisture as they are air/humidity activated. They would tell you it doesn't work but I can tell you it does. As far as I can tell they are the same formulation. Titebond and probably elmers also make a better more waterproof version of the old standard yellow wood glue.

 

[Sid Post]

And as a side note, I’m a hobby beekeeper and my bees are now in Texas, sheltering from this mild Minnesota winter. Try propolis for the rifle stock glue!

Yes, that stuff is like welding two pieces of wood together. Some of it peeled the wood away before it separated at the joint with some of my hives.

 

[Ray B]

If it were me that had bought a gun and when I got it and it had "come apart" rather than post the event on the open board I'd have sent a PM to the seller. My expectation is that I'd pull the metalwork off of the rifle and send the stock back to the seller for repair. If the reattachment was done satisfactorily then I would have posted how great my satisfaction on the open boards. If not, then I would have just returned the gun for refund.

 

[Sid Post]

rookhawk has been a totally "stand up class act". My intention was not to "out him" or imply any negativity his way. From all appearances, the rifle was packaged well and delivered safely. I can't fault him or the way it was packaged.

I really like the rifle. This fix shouldn't be too hard or too expensive. I am seeking advice and wisdom to fix it properly. Since it is a clean separation without broken wood, I think it is a simple issue of glue failure.

My beekeeping kit has wood glue and I have a drill bit for a dowel or two. What I don't want is to make things worse thanks to the error'net and poor Google-Fu. I've seen too many nice firearms messed up by someone who didn't really know what they were doing.

The angled pieces make drilling accurate perpendicular dowel holes unlikely with the tools I have. I think that's what is best right now for the future use of this rifle. Of course, a couple of furniture clamps and some Gorilla glue would probably work too.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

Instead of struggling to get the holes line up why not glue it up then drill the holes at an angle from the inside?

 

[rookhawk]

@Bert the Turtle has the win for best repair plan I've read.

Repair 1 - The easy one. Glue and clamp with Tightbond or Gorilla glue. No refinish required. Easy to clean up. Now the gun stock is fixed.

Repair 2 - Now that bonded to the same level as the original stock maker did it, do the Bert the Turtle additional improvement. Back drill from the inside of the barrel channel diagonally through the forend tip. Drop two pieces of all-rod in the two holes that are filled with epoxy. This option requires no locate/machinist skills at all like a conventional dowel would. This can be done by a blind squirrel and a shoddy hand drill, no drill press or milling.

I offered the buyer a couple options for everyone's awareness. I offered to repair the stock and send it back to him. I also offered to pay to have a local gunsmith I know in his area do the work for him. That said, I recommend time-is-of-the-essence by making a wood-glue repair immediately so there is no humidity change differentially between the different wood of the forend tip and the stock. Waiting a few days might result in warpage or expansion that makes the repair less than perfect, perhaps with the wood joint being off by a couple of thousanths.

 

[CJW]

Instead of struggling to get the holes line up why not glue it up then drill the holes at an angle from the inside?

Very good idea. The rest of us missed that there is an unseen portion of the stock.


I'm sure it will all get straightened out properly. Stuff happens.

 

[Shootist43]

Rookhawk, I seldom disagree with you but in this case I am. The "fix" proposed by Von Gruff is by far the better option. As many or most of you know Von Gruff makes stocks as well as knives. I'd listen to him.