Standards For Trophies

Discussion in 'Judging Trophies' started by Guster, Feb 12, 2015.

  1. Guster

    Guster AH Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2015
    Messages:
    51
    Video/Photo:
    13
    Likes Received:
    120
    Location:
    Saskatchewan
    Just curious what size of a kudu ,gemsbok, waterbuck is considered a trophy????

    Here at home a whitetail over 160" is a real good deer & 170" is B&C minimum for a typical.
    everyone is looking for the elusive 190+" Mule deer

    Just would like to learn the lingo...
     

  2. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    Messages:
    21,628
    Video/Photo:
    411
    Likes Received:
    14,185
    Hunted:
    Namibia, South Africa, Botswana, Mozambique, Canada, USA, Mexico, England

  3. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    Messages:
    21,628
    Video/Photo:
    411
    Likes Received:
    14,185
    Hunted:
    Namibia, South Africa, Botswana, Mozambique, Canada, USA, Mexico, England
    Rowland Ward Record Minimums
    Gemsbok 40 inches
    Greater Kudu 53 7/8 inches
    Waterbuck 28 inches

    90% of these scores is a good Trophy.

    Like you noted 160/170 is 94%. So, you can relate it that way.
     

  4. billc

    billc AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    3,683
    Video/Photo:
    97
    Likes Received:
    3,154
    Location:
    Pa.
    Hunted:
    united state- Co Nm Mt Wy Pa , canada ,mexico ,south africa- Northwest, Limpopo, freestste.Northern cape,East cape, namibia
    I think that answer will be different then what is record book be it sci or Rowland ward.

    I think kudu is at trophy size when you get over that 52" mark.
    oryx would be 38"male and 40" female

    waterbuck I would say 28".

    I think taking that size or better would be above avg trophy size for must places.
     

  5. JacoS

    JacoS AH Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,280
    Video/Photo:
    95
    Likes Received:
    1,108
    Member of:
    SCI, PHASA, IPHA
    Hunted:
    South Africa, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Botswana, Tanzania
    I think a trophy is s mature post breeding animal whether it be kudu or leopard, thereby fulfilling the very foundation of sustainable utilization by means of trophy hunting.

    The largest are not necessarily the right trophy to take from a conservation perspective.

    My best always
     
    Velo Dog, Sable123, Adrian and 9 others like this.

  6. CAustin

    CAustin AH ENABLER BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    13,126
    Video/Photo:
    215
    Likes Received:
    9,371
    Member of:
    Courtney Hunting Club, NRA Life Member, SCI Kansas City Chapter
    Hunted:
    South Africa, KwaZulu Natal, Kalahari, Northwest, Limpopo, Gauteng, APNR Kruger Area. USA Georgia, South Carolina, Arkansas, New Mexico, North Carolina and Texas
    In my mind he is a trophy if he looks good to the hunter! I shot a nice Red Hartebeest last year and was darn excited to get him. Didn't notice his right tip was broken until he was on the ground. My PH apologized but I love him anyway and he is coming to my house just the way he was when I shot him. So to me he is a TROPHY. Now I have. 54 1/4 inch kudu that I'm proud of but I love my sons 50 inch one even better because of the hunt memory!
     
    Velo Dog, Wheels, woods1126 and 6 others like this.

  7. kathy

    kathy AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    685
    Likes Received:
    359
    A trophy is in the eyes of the Beholder. any animal I take with my bow is a trophy. Forrest
     
    Velo Dog, Sable123, Adrian and 6 others like this.

  8. Royal27

    Royal27 AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    8,791
    Video/Photo:
    82
    Likes Received:
    10,753
    Member of:
    DSC, NRA, SCI
    Hunted:
    USA - TX, CO, GA, ID. Africa - Zimbabwe and South Africa (Limpopo and EC)
    This is spot on!!!

    To me, it is all about the experience. I'm not a tape measure guy, but would also be lying if I didn't say I liked bigger horns. But, given the choice between a really old past is prime "representative" or a young "trophy animal" I would honestly prefer the old guy every time.
     
    Velo Dog, thi9elsp, gizmo and 2 others like this.

  9. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    Messages:
    21,628
    Video/Photo:
    411
    Likes Received:
    14,185
    Hunted:
    Namibia, South Africa, Botswana, Mozambique, Canada, USA, Mexico, England
    This can certainly be true.
     
    Velo Dog likes this.

  10. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    Messages:
    21,628
    Video/Photo:
    411
    Likes Received:
    14,185
    Hunted:
    Namibia, South Africa, Botswana, Mozambique, Canada, USA, Mexico, England
    When you look at the General question "What is a trophy?" you guys are all right.

    When the OP threw inches out there, I can only conclude he wants to know about "BOOK".

    I am always trophy hunting and looking hard for the biggest, oldest animal I can find.

    I use Rowland as my measuring stick. If it does not make it because I missed on my estimate I won't be take my toys and go home. It just means there is going to be another hunt planned to keep chasing the biggest and oldest I can find.
    When I do get a "big" one, the next hunt just gets to be a tougher hunt as you have raised the bar.

    The experience comes right along with my trophy hunting.
    I have been fortunate and been able to leave behind a lot of animals to grow up to be hunted later everywhere I have hunted.

    Hunt the ones you want to and be happy with them when you get them.
     
    50by50, Scott Slough, Big5 and 2 others like this.

  11. Big5

    Big5 AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Messages:
    777
    Video/Photo:
    2
    Likes Received:
    741
    Member of:
    SCI Life member, NRA Life/Benefactor member
    Hunted:
    USA, Canada, Mexico, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Namibia, South Africa, Spain, Russia
    Well said . . . . Like you, trophy hunting is the seemingly endless search for the biggest and oldest animal out there. In the course of that search many lessor animals will be left to grow and be hunted by others. To me, that is what trophy hunting is all about.
     
    50by50 likes this.

  12. Scott Slough

    Scott Slough AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    May 6, 2014
    Messages:
    982
    Likes Received:
    888
    Location:
    Nacogdoches, TX
    Member of:
    SCI, Pineywoods SCI, NAHC, TTH
    Hunted:
    USA, South Africa (Eastern Cape)
    +1
     
    JacoS likes this.

  13. Velo Dog

    Velo Dog AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2014
    Messages:
    2,883
    Video/Photo:
    58
    Likes Received:
    4,077
    Location:
    Anchorage
    Member of:
    NRA Life Member.
    Hunted:
    South Africa 3 times, Namibia 2 times, USA - most western states including Alaska and Hawaii.
    +1 with Jaco Strauss.
    In fact, my greatest hunting trophy is that smell of thornbush and nitro powder smoke lingering in my memory.
     
    spike.t and JacoS like this.

  14. billc

    billc AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    3,683
    Video/Photo:
    97
    Likes Received:
    3,154
    Location:
    Pa.
    Hunted:
    united state- Co Nm Mt Wy Pa , canada ,mexico ,south africa- Northwest, Limpopo, freestste.Northern cape,East cape, namibia
    Ok I think it great everyone wants to take a great old mature animal. The question was what is considered trophy size for some of the animals he listed. If someone wants to hunt and go for a certain size he is free to do so as he is paying to do so.

    Nothing wrong with going in to the hunt with a plan and a goal of a size you would like to go for. Must never put the tape on there animals but it maybe the way he wants to try and judge his animals by.
     
    CAustin likes this.

  15. thi9elsp

    thi9elsp GOLD SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    930
    Video/Photo:
    22
    Likes Received:
    812
    Location:
    USA
    Member of:
    Life Member: Buckmasters, NRA, RMEF, DSC, SCI, and CCA
    Hunted:
    Zimbabwe, Mozambique
    I have to admit, I do want the larger animal. But the experience and memory means the most. My first white tail with my brother - 3 points on one side and 2 on the other. I can still remember the blind we were in. My first kudu. 5 hours of tracking - right at 50". Now, when I working out and feeling tired, I remember Owen pushing me that we would find that Kudu. My first antelope with my other brother - just short of 14". But, the first time I had shot anything over 200 yds. And of course, the prairie dogs afterwards.
     

  16. JacoS

    JacoS AH Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,280
    Video/Photo:
    95
    Likes Received:
    1,108
    Member of:
    SCI, PHASA, IPHA
    Hunted:
    South Africa, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Botswana, Tanzania
    That is the kicker Billc it's different for every hunter, as far as paying to do so and thereby one can stipulate size....
    Well....there are allot of conservation minded ph's and hunters out there that would disagree with that train of thought, I do not go to the doctor, pay him and tell him what is wrong with me.
    If we follow the pay and pick route we will be having regulations put in place the same as lion and leopard (min harvest age) on other species.

    Matetsi's Sable population, and mean average took a nose dive due to size harvesting, in most African countries (excluding SA) bottom jaws are sent to parks or Natcon for ageing if it is found that a operator is harvesting on the young side his quota will be cut.

    Post prime Maturity is the single most important factor in "trophy"judgement IMO.

    With this being said there is a wealth of record books providing such numbers, I believe Brickburn listed them right at the beginning of the thread.

    I should personally thank him for the 40" Gemsbuck bull one... :) ;) :)
    All the other numbers are quite easily reached with the correct management in an area :) :)

    My best always
     

  17. Royal27

    Royal27 AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    8,791
    Video/Photo:
    82
    Likes Received:
    10,753
    Member of:
    DSC, NRA, SCI
    Hunted:
    USA - TX, CO, GA, ID. Africa - Zimbabwe and South Africa (Limpopo and EC)
    I agree that there is nothing wrong with having a minimum size requirement for an animal. I've done so in the past and have some requirements in mind for my next hunt for Kudu.

    But, that cannot, in my opinion, be the only requirement if you are also hunting as a conservationist. On my buff hunt we saw a really nice bull on day one. Scoring wise definitely bigger than the one i shot. But, he was a young bull who was probably just breeding. I never wished for a second that I had Taken him.

    I know the question was just about size, but I don't think the answer is.
     
    Adrian and JacoS like this.

  18. robertq

    robertq AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    691
    Video/Photo:
    1
    Likes Received:
    624
    Location:
    Wallkill, NY
    Member of:
    Life member of DSC, SCI, NRA, Rocky Mt Elk Foundation, American Hunter, Buck Masters & Ruffed Grouse Society
    Hunted:
    Russia, Argentina, Canada & South Africa
    To me, "the trophy is in the eyes of the hunter...."
    If I had a great hunt and harvested a mature animal in fair chase, that's a trophy for me........
     

  19. billc

    billc AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    3,683
    Video/Photo:
    97
    Likes Received:
    3,154
    Location:
    Pa.
    Hunted:
    united state- Co Nm Mt Wy Pa , canada ,mexico ,south africa- Northwest, Limpopo, freestste.Northern cape,East cape, namibia
    The point is it can be for him the right question to ask. Everyone is different on how they pick to hunt. There are many thoughts from many different people on what size or age class should be taken. It is never just as simple as it appears to be. Jaco has his ideas for his areas others have there. I myself can not say he is wrong as it has worked for him.

    Some also believe that nature will decide and that is the best way to pick what animals live or die. Animals have been hunted since man has been put on this earth and some will always say it will never be as good as it was 50 years ago or more no matter what is done.

    Some also believe controlling how many of any animal is taken on a given area being the best way. The old strongest will survive idea.

    Plus so many other ways some believe it should be done. Someone will always say there way is better.


    Now for how some ph think it should be done. Well I do think the ph should have say on what hunters take. One can say that is to young or that is one we would like to let go for breeding. That should be worked out before the hunt starts. If there is goal set by a hunter and he is say looking for a 55" kudu but you don't believe in taking them they he should be told that. But we all know a 55" could be young or old so his goal can be done.

    As for going to the doctor and hunting with ph ,as you like to say must compare apples to apples with that one. Two different jobs and you go to the doctor out of need you go to a ph to enjoy a fun outing.

    To many threads get turned into what OTHERS THINK and the question does not get answers. This was really an easy question to answer.

    Must everyone knows there is an avg. size for must animals. Then there is the size that is over or under that. If a guy wants avg or above he would need to know what avg. is and there is nothing wrong with that at all. What ever his reason is it is his reason for doing the hunt.

    There was a thread started about judging black wildebesst. Everyone post there trophy picture for guys to see. Don't hear no talk about we took the oldest or the one that needed to be taken. Most looked for the best one to be taken. There is small ones all the way up to way better the avg.

    The point is you can have your idea and even say I like to hunt the old mature animal but if you want some idea on what size oryx is X kudu is X and so on.
     

  20. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Messages:
    8,540
    Video/Photo:
    53
    Likes Received:
    6,290
    Member of:
    SCI
    Hunted:
    USA, S. Africa
    (y)
     

Share This Page

 
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice