South African Airlines stated that ammunition reloads are NOT allowed on SAA flights

Discussion in 'Before & After the Hunt' started by Timbo, Jun 5, 2019.

  1. Timbo

    Timbo AH Fanatic

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    Hi all,

    I'll make this brief, as I'm totally pissed off!! I'm 2hrs away from boarding for my buff and PG hunt in SA. The SAA Manager (a self-confessed hunter) asked if my ammo was factory or hand loads. I naturally said hand loads. He then categorically stated reloads are NOT allowed on SAA flights!!

    I asked where in their regs does it state and clarify that "factory" ammo is only permitted. He declined to engage but said it's always been their regulation. I replied BULLSHIT!! I flew SAA to Zambia last year and it was ok. He did not provide an adequate reply!!

    Be warned!! If SAA ask about your ammo at check-in - it's FACTORY loads, ok guys?

    Timbo
     
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  2. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Timbo, I'm not 100% positive but I think this has been the "understanding" for quite a while. Hopefully you were able to work something out. Ammo prices in Africa are almost unconscionable. If you need to purchase ammo in SA, there is a store called Safari & Outdoors that has the largest selection of DG ammo I've ever seen. They have a very large selection of PG ammo. JUST DON'T FORGET YOUR WALLET!!
     
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  3. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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  4. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    What airport was this representative operating out of?

    A call to head office and a suggestion of some retraining is in order.
     
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  5. Timbo

    Timbo AH Fanatic

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    Perth International. As far as the "understanding" goes this is the FIRST time in 30yrs hunting overseas SAA have ever asked me about my ammunition. I've even had written confirmation of my carrying my own ammo, and there was no problem!!

    Just spoke with the asshole again, and tried he quoted some IATA regulation that states "factory" ammunition. I even showed him the SAA online regs. He was stuffed when I told him that SAA have mislead me by NOT quoting the IATA regulations!!

    Highly ticked off, need a beer! Boarding soon! Bye guys!
     
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  6. Timbo

    Timbo AH Fanatic

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    Thanks!! I'll ask to drop by!!
     
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  7. Hogpatrol

    Hogpatrol AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Ask for a Supervisor and take it up the line.
     

  8. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Screen Shot 2019-06-05 at 08.47.52.png
    https://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/dgr/Documents/DGR-60-EN-2.3a.pdf


    UN REGULATION REGARDING PACKAGING referred to in IATA guidelines.


    Division 1.4S
    Division 1.4 refers to the specific nature of the ammunition, and the suffix "S" refers to the packing, as follows:[1]
    Articles and substances that present no significant hazard. This division comprises articles and substances, which present only a small hazard in the event of ignition or initiation during transport. The effects are largely confined to the package and no projection of fragments of appreciable size or range is to be expected. An external fire must not cause virtually instantaneous explosion of almost the entire contents of the package.
    Note: Articles and substances in this division are placed in Compatibility Group S when they are so packed or designed that any hazardous effects arising from accidental functioning are confined within the package unless the package has been degraded by fire, in which case all blast or projection effects are limited to the extent that they do not significantly hinder fire-fighting or other emergency response efforts in the immediate vicinity of the package.

    United Nations UN 0012
    UN 0012 defines the category 'Cartridges for weapons, inert projectile or Cartridges, small arms', being "Ammunition consisting of a cartridge case fitted with a centre or rimfire primer and containing both a propelling charge and solid projectile(s). They are designed to be fired in weapons of calibre not larger than 19.1 mm. Shotgun cartridges of any calibre are included in this definition."
    United Nations UN 0014
    UN 0014 defines the category 'Cartridges for weapons, blank or Cartridges, small arms, blank'
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2019

  9. JimP

    JimP AH Elite

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    It may be that the person believes that reloaded ammo is transported loose and not in a box.

    All I have ever read is that it needs to be in a box that contains it. Be it a factory box or even a plastic container to keep it from rattling around.
     
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  10. GA Hunter

    GA Hunter AH Fanatic

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    This probably will not do you much good given the window of time you're working with but it's a relatively easy fix. Get a few factory boxes and put your loads in them. Been there done that. I was cautioned about getting grief from the SAPS office many years ago. Ever since then I always take mine in factory boxes as a precaution. Sorry for your troubles.

    BD
     

  11. KMG Hunting Safaris

    KMG Hunting Safaris AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Legend

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  12. Newboomer

    Newboomer GOLD SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    Mine are all reloads and in factory boxes. I have in the past had ammo in plastic boxes and had no problems. Last year SAPS actually counted my rounds on my way home and didn't say anything about reloads. The ammo was in a plastic box. Maybe from now on I will put all in factory boxes just to be safe. The reload problem sounds like some two bit bureaucrat exercising some perceived authority.
     

  13. Uintaelkhunter

    Uintaelkhunter AH Enthusiast

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    Sounds like SAA is changing thing around as I just got a msg from @Travel Express that SAA is now going to require advance notice for guns and ammo. I’m still waiting to hear what exactly that entails. But it could be something to do with them asking about your reloads
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2019
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  14. Bushpig4Ever

    Bushpig4Ever AH Enthusiast

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    Regarding the advance notice that’s just a formality. The bookings are handled by reservations however for guns and ammo the baggage department has to be notified. Procedure: call SAA reservations, tell them about gun and ammo. Reservations will forward the details to baggage department. A couple of hours later call reservations again and confirm that gun and ammo are mentioned in your amended reservation. That’s all.

    Never heard them asking questions regarding reloads. Maybe that person was under the influence of alcohol or drugs...
     
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  15. Hogpatrol

    Hogpatrol AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    All ammo is now factory. See, it says right here on the bottom of the cartridge, R-P, Fed, WW, etc.
     

  16. BenKK

    BenKK AH Elite

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    Sorry to hear that, Timbo. Flown SAA out of Perth twice with no problems.
     
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  17. Hogpatrol

    Hogpatrol AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Seems like every year there's some new bullshit with either the South African government, SAPS or SAA. The hate they have for white operated hunting outfits, at least from this chair, is obvious. It's the old story, like what happened with cigarettes in the U.S. We can't ban hunting and we can't force them out. We'll just regulate them out of business. From a high of 16k plus foreign hunters in '08, now down to 6k in '16, how long before someone starts to squeal.
     
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  18. Hunter4752001

    Hunter4752001 AH Senior Member

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    Timbo, sorry to hear of your troubles. This may be a Perth issue and not a SAA issue. In my experience all the inhabitants of Perth Airport seem to think its their role in life to give grief to as many people as possible. After my last trips to SA I decided to send the extra and fly Qantas out of Sydney instead. Was the gentleman you spoke to actually SAA or was he Virgin Aust who are the reps for SAA. Their staff seem to vary widely in their knowledge and application of the regs re firearms and ammo.
     
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  19. JPbowhunter

    JPbowhunter AH Fanatic

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    I've always been made to feel like a criminal by airport staff and customs in Australia. We once got into a big disagreement because my brother took over 50 rounds to nz and brought back 41. Trying to explain that losing brass is normal was a real struggle ended up needing their supervisor to get through it.

    I hope this worked out for you mate
     
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  20. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    My ammunition all comes out of a little known factory located in my garage.
     
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