South Africa Spear hunting regulations?

[pretorius]

I need some help/info from those of you good men in the know........

It seems that there are some 'grey' areas in the RSA hunting regulations regarding the legal use of the spear in fair chase and with permission on private land.
[Not poaching!]

The only pdf regulation regarding spear-hunting in RSA that I could find so far caters specifically for endangered and protected species only.
[NEW RULES FOR HUNTING IN SOUTH AFRICA]

I have been cautioned by a good friend that the spear is now not recognized as a legal hunting tool in RSA and I am urgently trying to find the appropriate legislation pdf document for spear hunting pigs and soft skinned antelope with permission on private land.

So far I could not find any other official document apart from the above mentioned TOPS document mentioning legal spear hunting regulation in the official pdf documents of various Departmental or official Hunting,Fishing,Wildlife or Environmental documents in ;

1]Hunting-proclamations-Limpopo
2]Permission to Hunt and Transport Venision procedure,
3] STAATS KOERANT, 27 MEl 2011 NO 456 DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS -NORMS AND STANDARDS FOR HUNTING METHODS IN SOUTH AFRICA
4] RSA NetWitness Hunting Guide.
5]South Africa Provincial Hunting Proclamations per province
6] CATEGORIES OF HUNTING as published in the Government Gazette, 11 DECEMBER 2009 No.32798 29

Does anybody have any other specific and official pdf source they can direct me to apart of the above mentioned 7 x official South African Hunting regulation documents?

Much appreciated

 

[james cameron]

http://www.shingelani.co.za/downloads/SA_Goverment_TOPS_Regulations_Revised_July_10.pdf

 

[james cameron]

Not allowed. It seems...

 

[pretorius]

Not allowed. It seems...

James, but that TOPS document talk about protected animals--
NOT pigs or soft skinned animals...?

The summary below has been reviewed by South African officials for accuracy.
These rules go into effect on 1 February 2008.
Special Restrictions on Lion and Rhino hunting – (Lion however, temporarily
excluded from Large Predators list)
The hunting of captive-bred “listed large predators” (cheetah, spotted hyaena, brown hyaena, wild dog, leopard), white rhinos or black rhinos is prohibited

Methods of hunting:
All of the following are prohibited in the hunting of a listed threatened or protected species, except in the case controlling damage causing animals--
Poison, traps, snares, spears, – No hunting with these! Except
 for the control of damage-causing animals;
 traps for the hunting of marine or aquatic species

--TOPS listed threatened or protected species----this is NOT for pigs/soft skinned antelope???
[THIS IS STILL UNCLEAR TO ME--This document cater for a specific category of animal, and not a blanket rule for all animals/species ??]

 

[CAustin]

I think one of our RSA outfitters should comment here.

 

[pretorius]

Limpopo hunting ordinance [attached]

No mention here of spear-hunting being prohibited if a non - protected animal are hunted by legal means with permission of the owner on a farm that has exemption [p44 +]
I support CAusten that PH input would be highly appreciated.

 

[BRICKBURN]

There is no mention of spear hunting being prohibited anywhere I can find.
Searched "spear", "spears", "Spear", "Spears" in

https://www.gov.za/sites/www.gov.za/files/38600_gen256_0.pdf

https://www.environment.gov.za/site...nedspecies_regulations_g29657rg8638gon152.pdf

https://www.environment.gov.za/site...oprotectedmarinespecieregulations_gg40876.pdf

https://www.phasa.co.za/images/stories/downloads/Provincial_Ordinances/Limpopo Ord.pdf

NOTHING

Where did you find a document that listed spears?
link please!

 

[pretorius]

http://www.shingelani.co.za/downloads/SA_Goverment_TOPS_Regulations_Revised_July_10.pdf---p2

 

[BRICKBURN]

I can't open the link from the Outfitter web page.

That document is a summary from SCI. It is not a legal document.

The copies of the LAW ACTS/ORDINANCES/REGULATIONS from the MET website are included above.

I can not find the word spear in any of them. Although I could find it in the SCI document with a word search in ADOBE.

If you are concerned at all, read the LAW.
Hope that helps.

 

[pretorius]

Bricburn ,it seems that point no 3 on the hunting permit is the real problem as its a grey area and a matter of interpretation...
I agree with you in that there are NO specific mentioning of a spear in the acts/regulations ,.

If my [or any other legal spear hunter's] fate depend on the various official interpretations , then I can foresee possible problems and maybe even expensive court cases for some.
It is also not good that respected /officials /members in the hunting community not see this topic the same.

I know of at least one PH that has lost a huge amount of money, as the official refused to issued the spear hunting permit AFTER the paying [spear hunting] clients landed in RSA, and they then had to change to rifle and bow hunting because of point 3.

Official and clear clarification on this issue [and the accompanying clear understanding of point 3 on the hunting permit] is crucial, as spear hunting will not be specifically mentioned [but deemed as a given by some...]

Attached just an example of the mentioned point 3 on a hunting permit.

PH input would be highly appreciated.

[Observe--I've lost my password an need to get my old acc back somehow...lol]

 

[IvW]

No sport hunting with spears, by paying foreign(non-South African clients) is permitted.


No Sport hunting for damage causing animals -- The rule bans sport-hunting by “hunting clients” (that is, non-South Africans who are paying for a hunt) for damage causing animals.
 “Damage causing” = causes losses to livestock; damages cultivated trees or crops or other property; presents a threat to human life; or is present in such numbers that agricultural grazing is materially depleted.

NATIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT: BIODIVERSITY ACT, 2004 (ACT 10 of 2004)

Government
Gazette 5 May 2006
(2) All provincial hunting authorisations and national hunting permits authorising the hunting of a listed animal must, in addition to any other conditions the issuing authority may or must impose, be issued subject to the following conditions:
fa) The animal may not be hunted by means of -
(b) (i) poison;
(ii) traps;
(E) snares;
(iv) (v) (vi) dogs, except as provided for in subclause (3);
darting, except as provided for in subclause (4);
a bow and arrow, except where specifically permitted by provincial legislation;
a firearm other than a rifle or a handgun specifically designed for hunting purposes; (vii)
(viii) spears;
(ix) air guns;
or (x) any other device which use would result in injuring or killing an animal in a way which is not humane;

So in short spear hunting for sport is not permitted in SA.

 

[pretorius]

Thank you for this info IvW

1] No sport hunting with spears, by paying foreign (non-South African clients) is permitted.

2] So in short spear hunting for sport is not permitted in SA

The above mentioned two criteria are clear on 'sport' and 'foreign' hunters

Am I then correct to understand that normal paying [not for sport] South African hunters will have no problem spear hunting ?

Regards

 

[IvW]

Thank you for this info IvW

1] No sport hunting with spears, by paying foreign (non-South African clients) is permitted.

2] So in short spear hunting for sport is not permitted in SA

The above mentioned two criteria are clear on 'sport' and 'foreign' hunters

Am I then correct to understand that normal paying [not for sport] South African hunters will have no problem spear hunting ?

Regards

Nope, no spear hunting is permitted according to the Act that has been Gazetted.

The first part regarding "1] No sport hunting with spears, by paying foreign (non-South African clients) is permitted." is from a SCI publication and is not mentioned in the Act.

(2) All provincial hunting authorisations and national hunting permits authorising the hunting of a listed animal must, in addition to any other conditions the issuing authority may or must impose, be issued subject to the following conditions:
fa) The animal may not be hunted by means of -
(b) (i) poison;
(ii) traps;
(E) snares;
(iv) (v) (vi) dogs, except as provided for in subclause (3);
darting, except as provided for in subclause (4);
a bow and arrow, except where specifically permitted by provincial legislation;
a firearm other than a rifle or a handgun specifically designed for hunting purposes; (vii)
(viii) spears;
(ix) air guns;
or (x) any other device which use would result in injuring or killing an animal in a way which is not humane;

Regulations made in terms of section 97 may provide that any person who contravenes or fails to comply with a provision thereof is guilty of an offence and liable on conviction to- (a) imprisonment for a period not exceeding five years; (b) a fine not exceeding five million rand, and in the case of a second or subsequent conviction, to a fine not exceeding R10 million or imprisonment for a period not exceeding 10 years or in both instances to both a fine and such imprisonment; or Page 80 of 84 (c) both a fine and such imprisonment.

The Act is the same for South Africans and foreign hunters, you need the same permits and licences to hunt certain animals as foreigners, the main difference is that a Foreign paying client has to book his safari through a hunting outfitter and be accompanied by a Professional hunter.

 

[pretorius]

It seems I've walked unknowingly the outlaw trail the last 10 years....Eish!

i PUT THIS REPLY HERE FOR THE BENEFIT OF ALL OUR FELLOW HUNTERS /MEMBERS

FRITZ RABE BOWHUNTING
Dag Willem.
Vind asb hiermee my "reply" op jou versoek.
Spies jag is n geweldige sensitiewe saak tans.
Ek het twee sulke jagte in Mosambiek gedoen op Buffels. Altwee was suksesvol maar gladnie lonend vir ons nie en ook het dit 99% luck gevat om dit suksesvol te kon doen.
Laas jaar is dit finaal onwettig verklaar in Zambie, Zimbabwe, Mosambiek en CAR.
Hier gaan dit n by nes oopmaak. Daar is geen manier om n werkende regulasie te kan neer pen tov n spies nie.
Omdat die spies "menslik gedryf of gelanseer" word kan n mens nie soos by n boog of geweer minimum standaarde stel wat gemeet kan word nie. Ek oraat nou eerstens oor die wetenskap van die jag metode.
Spiese word oral gesien as n "poacher's weapon" en daarom gaan dit baie moeilik wees om regulasies te skryf vir die wettig maak van n spies. Wat gebeur as dit wel wettig gemaak word en n spul diewe word op n plaas gevang met spiese? Hulle hoef dan net te se dat hulle kortpad deur die grond geloop het om "wettiglik" op n ander plaas te jag. Al waarvoor hulle dan aangekla kan word is grond oortreding en dit word nooit deur gevoer in n hof nie.
Dan is daar die etiek agter die jag met n spies.
In my eie ondervinding word diere baie meer gepla en skrik gemaak agv die lae sukses omdat n mens binne 10y van n dier af moet kom. Die gemiddlde sukses met loop en bekruip met n boog is 10%.
Hoeveel sal n spies wees? Ook is die kans vir wond/kwes baie groter agv die akuraatheid van die spies.
Tans MOET n plaas waar daar boogjag beoefen word oor n Boog vrystelling beskik as ook n gewone vrystelling. Daar sal nie sommer boere wees wat spies jag sal toelaat nie omdat die sukses so swak is. Hulle sal eerder geweer of boog jagters vir die selfde tydperk op die plaas akkommodeer wat n inkomste vir die boer sal in bring.
Ek verstaan dat jy iets uniek wil doen maar die groter prentjie is bie meer belangrik as die individu se smaak.
Sodra sosiale media iets hiervan te hore kom is daat chaos. Kyk maar wat het met Razor Dobbs en Tim Wells gebeur nadat die greenys hulle beet gehad het oor spies jag.
Dit sal geweldige nagevolge vir die hele jag bedryf veroorsaak.
Die selfde het gebeur toe mense met blaas pype "blow guns" wou voels jag.
Daar was groot chaos.
Nee wat Willem. Ek weet dis nie wat jy wou gehoor het nie maar dis hoe sake nou staan. Ek sal dit geensins aanbeveel nie.
Groete.
Fritz

EISH!

 

[AfricaHunting.com]

Dag Willem.
Vind asb hiermee my "reply" op jou versoek.
Spies jag is n geweldige sensitiewe saak tans.
Ek het twee sulke jagte in Mosambiek gedoen op Buffels. Altwee was suksesvol maar gladnie lonend vir ons nie en ook het dit 99% luck gevat om dit suksesvol te kon doen.
Laas jaar is dit finaal onwettig verklaar in Zambie, Zimbabwe, Mosambiek en CAR.
Hier gaan dit n by nes oopmaak. Daar is geen manier om n werkende regulasie te kan neer pen tov n spies nie.
Omdat die spies "menslik gedryf of gelanseer" word kan n mens nie soos by n boog of geweer minimum standaarde stel wat gemeet kan word nie. Ek oraat nou eerstens oor die wetenskap van die jag metode.
Spiese word oral gesien as n "poacher's weapon" en daarom gaan dit baie moeilik wees om regulasies te skryf vir die wettig maak van n spies. Wat gebeur as dit wel wettig gemaak word en n spul diewe word op n plaas gevang met spiese? Hulle hoef dan net te se dat hulle kortpad deur die grond geloop het om "wettiglik" op n ander plaas te jag. Al waarvoor hulle dan aangekla kan word is grond oortreding en dit word nooit deur gevoer in n hof nie.
Dan is daar die etiek agter die jag met n spies.
In my eie ondervinding word diere baie meer gepla en skrik gemaak agv die lae sukses omdat n mens binne 10y van n dier af moet kom. Die gemiddlde sukses met loop en bekruip met n boog is 10%.
Hoeveel sal n spies wees? Ook is die kans vir wond/kwes baie groter agv die akuraatheid van die spies.
Tans MOET n plaas waar daar boogjag beoefen word oor n Boog vrystelling beskik as ook n gewone vrystelling. Daar sal nie sommer boere wees wat spies jag sal toelaat nie omdat die sukses so swak is. Hulle sal eerder geweer of boog jagters vir die selfde tydperk op die plaas akkommodeer wat n inkomste vir die boer sal in bring.
Ek verstaan dat jy iets uniek wil doen maar die groter prentjie is bie meer belangrik as die individu se smaak.
Sodra sosiale media iets hiervan te hore kom is daat chaos. Kyk maar wat het met Razor Dobbs en Tim Wells gebeur nadat die greenys hulle beet gehad het oor spies jag.
Dit sal geweldige nagevolge vir die hele jag bedryf veroorsaak.
Die selfde het gebeur toe mense met blaas pype "blow guns" wou voels jag.
Daar was groot chaos.
Nee wat Willem. Ek weet dis nie wat jy wou gehoor het nie maar dis hoe sake nou staan. Ek sal dit geensins aanbeveel nie.
Groete.
Fritz

Google translate:
Day Willem.
Please find my "reply" at your request.
Spear hunting is a tremendously sensitive issue at the moment.
I have done two such hunting in Mozambique on Buffalo. Both were successful but not rewarding for us, and it also took 99% luck to do it successfully.
Last year, it was finally declared illegal in Zambia, Zimbabwe, Mozambique and CAR.
Here it opens a nest. There is no way to put down a working rule for a spear.
Because the spear is "manually driven or launched", one can not set minimum standards that can be measured as with an arc or gun. First of all, I wonder about the science of the hunting method.
Spears are everywhere seen as a "poacher's weapon" and therefore it would be very difficult to write regulations for legalizing a spear. What happens if it is legalized and a thief is caught on a farm caught with spears? They only have to say that they walked shortly through the ground to hunt "legally" on another farm. All for which they can be charged is land violation and it is never put into court.
Then there is the ethics behind the hunt with a spear.
In my own experience, animals are bothered and frightened because of the low success because one has to get off an animal within 10y. The average success with walking and bowling is 10%.
How much will a spear be? Also, the odds of wound / injury are much greater due to the accuracy of the spear.
Currently, a booth yard must be used for an arch release as well as an ordinary release. There will not be farmers who will allow spear hunting because the success is so poor. They will rather accommodate gun or arch hunters for the same period on the farm that will bring income to the farmer.
I understand that you want to do something unique but the bigger picture is more important than the individual's taste.
As soon as social media hear something like this, chaos is the case. Look at what happened to Razor Dobbs and Tim Wells after the Greenys had bites about spear hunting.
This will cause tremendous consequences for the entire hunting industry.
The same happened when people with blow guns "blow guns" wanted to hunt.
There was great chaos.
No what Willem. I do not know what you wanted to hear, but that's what matters now. I will not recommend it at all.
Regards.
Fritz

 

[pretorius]

A lot of controversy and different opinions are currently doing the rounds about spear hunting in RSA and world wide.
Keep it clean,ethical and without taking egoistic chances by respecting the prey animal.
A spear is a tool like any other , though unfortunately its misuse by unscrupulous thugs gave it a bigger label than any other hunting tool as only a 'poachers' instrument of doom ....
Keep using this pointy tool within its capabilities and the local laws like any other hunting tool.
Unfortunately the malpractices of some mongrels are making spear hunting a more emotional target for the anti-crowd , that does not want to know or have even the ability to understand the meaning of the word 'ethical' in the presence and context of a true ethical spear hunter....
Keep your spear hunting intentions and actions always honest and above board same as with any other hunting instrument.....
I do NOT want to open a can of worms, and I do respect the local laws,but every case got 2 sides and this is just my lonely opinion on this topic ....

 

[IvW]

I would contact Nature Conservation in which ever province you want to spear hunt and ask them to issue you with a permit to do so and see if they will allow it.