SOUTH AFRICA: My Hunt With Huntershill Safaris In The East Cape

Discussion in 'Hunting Reports Africa' started by Cam Moon, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. Hank2211

    Hank2211 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    I think a .270 is perfectly adequate for kudu. Even though a kudu is a substantial animal it's not a particularly tough one (in fact, I'd say it isn't tough at all - a bushbuck is a tougher animal than a kudu), and a well placed .270 would I suspect reliably bring one down.

    My concern with a .270 is that while it would be great for kudu and springbuck for example, I wouldn't call it adequate for many other plains game animals which are both larger and tougher. For example, I think a .270 would be marginal on blue wildebeest and zebra, let alone eland, which can run all day after being poorly hit. So if I had to bring only one rifle to Africa, it would likely start with a "3" rather than a "2". Having said that, we come back to shot placement. If you can thread a .270 into the heart of an eland, it will die without a doubt.

    You asked for feedback on the springbuck - I've shot lots, and your looks like a "snorter" as they say! And your kudu is no slouch either. You should be very pleased. Looking forward to the balance!
     
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  2. Cam Moon

    Cam Moon AH Senior Member

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    Day two was another amazing day! Huntershill has Barbary Sheep, but Jason said he wasn't really sure of the trophy quality, and so he came up with an alternate plan. Henry, who is one of the trackers/skinners, grew up in an area maybe an hour and a half away. He knows a farmer there who was pasturing cattle and had seen Barbary in the mountains behind his pasture land. Knowing that I wanted to hunt one, Henry got ahold of the fellow and asked if we could gain access through his land. He told Henry that he would allow it, and so a plan was formed. We drove there and spoke with the "farm manager". He was really just an older guy who kept an eye on the place in exchange for a place to stay. (African security system?) ;) He said that sheep used to live up there, and so he imagined that they still would.
    He also let us know that he had been there for quite some time and knew the area quite well, and he graciously offered to help us and to be our guide. (For a modest fee of course! LOL.... Welcome to Africa!) Well, we decided to have him join us and set of in search of a Barbary.

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    This is a picture of where he lived in exchange for being a watchdog.

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    And here is a quick picture of the old farmyard.


    Surprisingly, we found some fairly quickly. I can't remember how many there were, but it was a small herd, with a couple decent rams. It was fairly early in the day still, so Jason suggested we hold out and see what else we could find. We ended up finding three rams together, and all three were "shooters". My lucky day!!! We were all excited and started to make a plan. Then Jason said that if those three are by themselves that they were possibly kicked out of a herd. Imagine what the ram that kicked them out must look like! Hmmm... Do we really pass on one of these though? They stopped and laid down under a bush, so Jason got Stroulie (our other tracker) to stay there and watch those three and the rest of us would carry on. Well, at this point our newly hired guide said he thought he should best stay with Stroulie, "just in case". We couldn't help but laugh amongst ourselves. Walking in these mountains was not easy, and we did feel bad for the old boy! We let him stay behind, and Jason, Henry and myself continued on.
    We must have walked 20km that day, and a lot of it was pretty tough going. We did find a big herd, and the ram was huge!!! Unfortunately, they were at the top of the mountain, sunning themselves and we were far too far away for a shot. We looped around and came up the side of the mountain, hoping that we'd get close, but thinking in reality it's not really likely. We did make it around, but it was a challenge for sure! And believe it or not, we got way closer than we ever imagined! Surprisingly close in fact. Jason was quite surprised when he popped over the ridge first and saw them right there, maybe 20 yards away. And they were surprised to see him too I think! Jason quickly ducked down, motioned Henry and myself over, and told us what he had seen. We took some time and tried to make a plan, but ultimately it didn't really matter. I doubt that any of the sheep stopped to tell the others what they had seen, and their plan was already made - and put into action immediately...... Relocate...Fast! There was hardly a sign of them when we got our eyes over the ridge. Those sheep were gone! We ended up searching around for a bit, but to no avail. I did see a critter that Jason told me is quite endangered and only lives at altitudes of 7000 ft and up, but I cannot remember for sure what it was. I'm pretty sure he said it was a rock rabbit, but when I just googled that, Wikipedia told me that it's also called a hyrax. The next day Jason pointed out a hyrax to me when we saw it, and it looked different. Who knows? A mystery for now. One thing I know for certain is that it wasn't a sheep!
    Down the mountain we went. Not exactly easy, but SO much less effort than going up.
    We met up with Stroulie and our hired guide/the farm manager/the old boy/whatever.... (I think his name may have been John) and we had a short break. Then we headed up the much smaller hill that we had last seen the three rams on. I did get one in my scope at under 40 yards, but just as I was starting to squeeze the trigger Henry said No! I stopped and watched him take off. Jason was a bit confused, and questioned Henry. Henry just said "Not big enough". He was with a small heard, so it may or may not have been one of the three rams we had seen together, but was most likely the small herd we had first seen.
    Time wouldn't allow a trek over the next mountain even if our bodies would have, so we started our journey back down. We were startled by a sheep jumping up from behind a small bush and taking off, and I wasn't even close to getting a shot. When Jason realized that it was the same bush that the three rams from earlier had laid under he was pretty angry at Stroulie, as his job was to be watching them. We had missed the opportunity on the monster, but any of those three were still pretty nice! I imagine that John was probably talking Stroulie's ear off and his focus was more on that! lol
    We got back to the Land Cruiser and started the slow, rough ride down. We were going to try to get back in time for a short hunt if we could, but more importantly, to throw a few rounds down the pipe at the range so I can be comfortable with where this .270 is shooting.
    All of a sudden Jason hit the brakes and grabbed his binoculars. More sheep! We glassed for a while and saw one ram that was really nice! We knew we didn't really have time for a stalk or a feasible way of doing one even if we did have the time, but this was a long ways for me to try to shoot. Oh hell, let's give 'er a try! Jason's looking through his binos, so is Henry. If I happen to hit, they will know. I didn't. Now I REALLY want to sight in this rifle.
    We dropped John off and told him we'd be back the next day. He said he'd come with us for sure and was looking forward to it...... I'm still not sure what to make of that look on Stroulie's face! On our way back to Huntershill I spotted a large leopard tortoise on the road and asked Jason to stop so I could take a look at it. I took a picture of it, and of the fenced Watusi Cattle that were there as well.

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    We headed back empty handed, but still feeling very accomplished. We had covered a lot of ground. Hard ground. And I had seen some absolutely beautiful scenery. The view was amazing. And more importantly, I had just hunted Barbary for the first time! I smile even now as I write this, as it's a fantastic memory. It's called hunting, Not killing.

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  3. johnnyblues

    johnnyblues AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    Everyone please don’t misunderstand, and I’m sorry to hijack this thread. That being said I’ve killed moose, caribou with a 270 and yes with proper shot placement it will kill many an animal. African game as most here know can absorb a tremendous amount of punishment more so IMO than North American game. Let’s get back to your report! I’m anxious to hear more.
     

  4. Hearties

    Hearties AH Senior Member

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    Thanks for the great report and the Springbok is a beaut! No problem with a .270 on Kudu, especially with 150’s...
     
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  5. 50by50

    50by50 AH Veteran

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    So..... can't wait to hear if you got your aoudad!
     
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  6. LivingTheDream

    LivingTheDream AH Elite

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    This is a great report. That springbok is awesome and for an Eastern Cape kudu that is definitely a good one. Enjoying the report so far!
     
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  7. RogerHeintzman

    RogerHeintzman AH Fanatic

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    You were off to a great start with your hunt. The Springbok for a cape Springbok is everything a Kalahari one would be. Congrats. Your kudu for a cape one probably goes Roland Ward.
     
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  8. Cam Moon

    Cam Moon AH Senior Member

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    We got back to Huntershill and had a quick bite to eat. We had talked about going to the range, but Jason had a different idea. The rifle I was using had been taking animals with previous clients, but they were all shot at relatively close range. My only shots that were an issue were longer distances. (No problem with the neck shot on my Kudu or getting my Springbok, just the original shots at the Kudu and at the sheep). He said we should go out somewhere where we could range at 300, 400, &500 yards and see where the rifle is shooting. He brought a box target and his range finder and said he had an area picked out. We didn't have a lot of time, and there was an area that he knows is quite popular with the Springbok. (You know, "just in case")
    We got to the area and did see some common and copper Springbok. Nothing that really stood out as being magnificent, but it was nice to see them!
    Henry and Staulie had dropped Jason and me off and they continued on to scout the area. Jason and I had found a good area and were setting up to shoot when luck shone down on us. I saw a copper Springbok crossing about 100 yards away from us. Jason gave me the go ahead (remember I have no idea what constitutes a good trophy yet) I put the crosshairs on him and dropped him. Well, I guess we already knew it was shooting well at shorter distances, but this was more confirmation! Jason radiod Henry to come back and we took a few pictures.
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    When Henry and Stroulie got there we loaded up the copper and then saw how the rifle was shooting. That .270 was about 9.5 inches low at 300 yards! At home I've got mine shooting 2 1/2 to 3 inches high at a hundred yards and it doesn't drop off that much until 400 yards plus. I guess that explains a few of the shots! As far as pulling left, well that one's 100% on me! We contemplated trying to adjust the scope, and had it been my rifle and my choice I probably would have, but I could kind of tell that Jason really didn't want it to be messed with and I respected his wishes. He asked if I would be okay with kind of field judging and raising up as required, and I told him that I was. At this point I felt quite fortunate that I had a .270 at home that I was comfortable with!
    We headed back with my copper Springbok and I was trying to picture in my head how high to shoot to compensate for how the rifle was set. My second Springbok in the salt, my second day of hunting finished, and my body wanting some rest, I retired to the lodge for a drink before supper. I had been keeping track of all the animals I had seen throughout the day and I went through the list. There was quite a few! Springbok, Meercat, Reedbuck, Leopard Tortoise, Sable, Blesbok, Roan, Scimitar Horned Oryx, Zebra, Yellow Mongoose, Gemsbok, Golden Gemsbok, Asian Water Buffalo, Pere Davis Deer, Axis Deer, Watusi, Tsessebe, Ostrich, Fallow Deer, Blue Wildebeest, Golden Wildebeest, Cape Buffalo, Lechwe, Eland, Rock Rabbit, Baboon, and of course Barbary Sheep! I already imagined I'd be dreaming of them and hoping to take one the following day! If I saw anything else I must not have written it down, and I cannot remember now.
    We had another fabulous meal and I was surprised when Jason told me it was my Springbok from the day before. He also told me that the previous night we had my Kudu that I had got in the morning. Our plan was to leave at 4:15 the next morning and head back to continue our Barbary hunt. My body was telling me to get as much rest as I could, so it was an early night for me!
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  9. SticksMcKinley

    SticksMcKinley AH Member

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    Great review, looking forward to more!
     
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  10. 50by50

    50by50 AH Veteran

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    Loving it. Waiting for more....
     

  11. 50by50

    50by50 AH Veteran

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    Let's hear the rest of your report :A Rock:
     

  12. Cam Moon

    Cam Moon AH Senior Member

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    YUP!....This is early. More sleep would be nice.....but I get to go hunting! This is a familiar feeling on this day for me, as November 1st is the first day of general (rifle) hunting season in the area of Alberta where I grew up. But this morning I'm not after Whitetail. No Mule deer or Moose. Elk isn't what's getting me excited. No, this is Africa, and today is day two of trying for a Barbary Sheep. Let's see what Africa will offer me today!
    We had breakfast and were on the road before 4:20am. I think we were all feeling the toll that the day before had on our bodies! We had covered a lot of terrain, with many, many hours of hard walking. But we wanted a really early start because we had a plan to head up the backside of the mountain and follow the ridge to where we had seen them sunning themselves. It seemed that they must drink water from below in the mornings and then head back up into the hills afterwards. We were sure we'd be able to position ourselves higher and have them come to us.
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    I took this picture the day before. The arrow shows where we planned to come over (from behind)

    When we arrived, it seemed that John was nowhere around. It looked like he was not going to be joining us again after all. Stroulie didn't look disappointed! :LOL:
    We decided to continue on without him and follow the plan we had made. Jason, Henry, and I headed up the side of the mountain, made it to the top, and headed across the ridge. No sheep spotted yet. We knew that the waterhole was located below where the ridge turns virtually 90°, so at that point we crested over and were hoping to see them coming up towards the top. We looked and saw nothing. We sat and glassed the waterhole, and up the other side. We glassed the valley and the hillside we were on. Nothing. We turned back, crested back over, and followed the ridge. Every now and then we would crest back and look into the valley and on the hillside, fully expecting to see sheep coming up towards us, heading for the top. But still nothing. We slowly scanned the opposite side, but saw nothing there either. We continued this for a couple of hours as we made ourselves along the ridge, but saw nothing. Within a day the same area went from having several sheep to seemingly having none! Eventually we made it along the ridge and up to the top where we had seen the huge ram enjoying the sun with his herd 24 hours ago, but still nothing. Deserted. Our activity must have scared them off to a different area. Especially with me taking the shots I did at the ones we had seen when we were leaving. We didn't know what to do. Our magnificent game-plan had not panned out as we had hoped!
    aviary-image-1555126473098.jpeg
    The view from where we came over, looking into the valley that we had hunted the day before.
    The arrow shows where the huge ram was sunning with his herd.
    Screenshot_20190408-053658~3.png


    We hadn't seen even one, and so we decided to drop down into the next valley/range. We were now in unchartered territory again and hoping for the best. We picked our way down and across the backside of the mountain, stopping regularly and looking for our now very elusive sheep. We ended up having to turn back and find alternate routes a couple of times, as we had neither climbing gear, nor wings. The scenery was amazing and I was enjoying myself even though we hadn't seen any Barbary. At 27 years of age and in good physical condition, Jason plugged along like a machine, but what really surprised me was Henry! I've gotta say, he and Stroulie, paired up with Jason..... Well, I don't think I could have asked for a better team! We stopped for a bit of a break and assessed where we thought we were, in relation to the area on the other side. We knew we were now on the far side of the valley, just on the other side of the mountain.
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    If we continued on without running into anymore drop-offs or areas we couldn't traverse, we should be able to come around the mountain and end up back into our valley from the day before. We could already see that there was no adjoining mountain in our way, so that was a relief. We continued on and carefully made our way across, and as we went we could see that we were approaching where the mountain dropped off and we would go around and start our long journey back.
    aviary-image-1554753992098.jpeg
    Another picture from the day before. The arrow points in behind the mountain around where we planned to come out.

    Around there is when it happened. We finally spotted a small heard on the far side. We were a safe distance away and they had not seen us. Jason was looking for our ram and I was trying to plan out how we could get closer. He said that there was a ram in there, and that although he's not the monster we had seen the day before, that he was still nice! I could feel the excitement rise and my heart beat faster! We took our time and made our way down and across to a good vantage point. After positioning ourselves and waiting, our ram was within range and presented a nice broadside shot. I was steady, and I remembered that I'd have to shoot high. I placed the crosshairs over his shoulder just above his backline, held steady, and squeezed. Solid hit! He ran maybe 20-30 yards and stopped. I put another one in him and he went down. The cheering that followed brings back a smile, and I remember Henry grabbing Jason and me for fear of us falling! We composed ourselves and started our descent to retrieve him. Much to our surprise, as we got close he jumped up and scrambled away. He managed to make it about 40 yards before going down again, and the third shot finished him. I still don't know how he was able to make those last 40 yards, as both hits were solid. His shoulders were out, and we found bone fragments on the ground with the blood-trail.
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    Bone fragments from his shoulders!!!

    Jason got ahold of Stroulie to let him know our location and we set up and got some pictures. He had a disappointing amount of ground shrinkage and was no where near the trophy animals we had seen the day before, but in our hearts he was still a trophy. It was a tough hunt and well earned. I wished he was bigger and older, but the experience itself would be pretty hard to beat!
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    Jason and Henry


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    Me looking up at the rocks where I shot from.

    Those were the only Barbary we saw that day. We did see some Black wildebeest, Mountain Reedbuck, Vaal Reedbuck, Mountain Zebra, Fallow Deer, Baboon, and a rock hyrax. On the way back on Huntershill we drove by Watusi, Blesbok, Springbok, Roan, and Scimitar Horned Oryx. We still had a bit daylight left, so our day was not over yet!!!
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    I was really hoping for one at least this big.

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    But if the real measure is in the hunt, then I don't know if this one can be beat!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 13, 2019
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  13. flatwater bill

    flatwater bill AH Elite

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    Sure enjoyed this...........especially all the fotos........and it was very nice to include some that are not the standard hunt pics................I always enjoy hunting springbok, and yours are fine ones............well done...........FWB
     
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  14. Cam Moon

    Cam Moon AH Senior Member

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    This morning I got my Barbary checked off my list, but the list is longer thanks to Jason! Seeing how much I enjoyed the Springbok hunt, he planted the thought in my head of a Springbok slam.....(as you probably already figured out since I now had a common AND a copper down!) With the remaining part of our day we went out to try to find a black or a white. Jason told me that the white would most likely be the smallest horned of all the colors, and to not be expecting the size I got with my common or even my copper. He also said to look at the tips, because they will sometimes turn Ivory in color, similar to a Nyala or Kudu. Well, when I saw this one, and he turned his head, the sunlight hit him just right, and I saw Ivory half way down his little horns! I don't even really remember bringing up the rifle or finding him in my scope. Just squeezing the trigger and watching him go down!
    White? ✓Smaller horns? ✓ Ivory tips?✓✓✓
    IMG_20181101_093624.jpg

    I hadn't even noticed the damage on his horns until we got up to him. I'll be honest.....I was disappointed. Jason, on the other hand, was not! He loved him! Now as I'm listening to Jason, I'm hearing words like "old", "unique", "warrior", "different", and "unusual". But it's when he used the word "character" that I really wondered. o_O Was he shooting straight with me? Would he REALLY rather have one like this himself then a nice, long, even one? Or was he blowing smoke up my ass because I just shot a dud rather than a stud? I've gotta say, I actually liked the tight, heart shape and I loved the "Ivory"!!! BUT... busted up horns? I wasn't sure.
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    I didn't wonder for long. Jason was always willing to do whatever he could to make me happy. Out came the offers..... "You don't like him? Take another. I'll take this one." Then he said I could shoot another and choose between the two (with the understanding that this time I'd actually hold off on shooting until I got his approval):LOL:
    I wasn't sure what to do. This little guy was growing on me already. I guess I'd have the night to think about it, as we would soon be running out of daylight.
    I did see a Red Lechwe that was absolutely amazing!!! I would SO love to get one! ..... Next time! I caught myself before Jason could jump at the opportunity! My list is already bigger than my bank account! We also saw several other animals including Sable, Scimitar, Hogg Deer, Pere David's Deer, Eland, Bontbuck, Axis Deer, Kudu, and black, copper, and other white Springbok, but no more lead flew from the .270 that day. We got back to Huntershill and Henry and Stroulie went right to work with skinning. I went right to work with having a refreshment at the bar! I felt like celebrating from Aoudad to Springbok! (Hmmmm...... Shoulda shot a Zebra!!) :ROFLMAO:
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    Picture of the bar area

    I don't remember what was on the menu, but I do remember that every meal was great! The cook (Max) is something else! One night I even tried liver, and that's not something I'd typically even want near my mouth. IMG_20181101_102856.jpg
    Picture of dining area

    After we ate I had a few more celebratory beverages, but by the time 11:00 came around, the day had caught up to me. Luckily I was going to be able to sleep in. The plan was to meet at 7:00 for breakfast with Gemsbok on the hit list. My Barbary down and a white Springbok with a lot of "character" that I had to decide on.....Or did I?.....;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
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  15. TXhunter65

    TXhunter65 AH Veteran

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    Great report... keep it coming!
     

  16. Cam Moon

    Cam Moon AH Senior Member

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    I ended up waking up at 5, but luckily did manage to nod off for a bit before meeting for breakfast at 7 and heading out. Jason had given me one little tidbit of information that I hadn't mentioned. He pointed out to me that my white Springbok wasn't as "white" as it could be. He called it a Cremora saying it was a "dirty white" or "off-white". He asked me how I felt about adding a different color to my Springbok slam. I could go for a "Snow-White" and essentially have two different types of White Springbok. That sounded good to me! We went out with that in mind, and Jason knew just where to look! He had us in an area with a lot of Springbok and we could take our time finding just the right one. We searched for a bit, and saw a few that we turned down in the search for the right one.
    While we were out we also talked about the Gemsbok I was after. We had already talked about it earlier in the week and he had suggested we travel a bit to another one of their properties that he said had some exceptional Gemsbok! I would prefer a bull over a cow and he was certain that we would find one I'd be very happy with. That had been our plan all along, but now Jason was wanting to talk to me about another option. The problem is that there would be a bit too much travel time to make it worthwhile for just one animal. I do understand that for sure, especially from a business standpoint. Jason had been absolutely awesome with me thus far and I was certainly open to working with him. Also, we may face the possibility of running out of time to complete my slam (etc). He said that they had a few open cows and if I'd be willing to take a cow rather than a bull that we could take a look. I agreed, and we decided we would head over there later.
    We continued on finding and stalking Springbok when we finally found one we wanted. They spook quite easily and often require a long shot. This one had stopped to look back and had turned and was quartering towards us. When I shot he jumped up into the air and took off on a dead run. I was disappointed that I had missed, but Jason said 'You got him my Bud!' And shortly after he stopped running and just stood there..... and then just fell to the ground. The shot had entered just behind his right shoulder and the exit was just in front of his left rear leg. I may have felt bad for Henry and Stroulie, as I'm sure he wouldn't have smelled all that good!
    IMG_20181102_001926.jpg

    I was very happy to have two very different looking whites and headed back to the skinning bay with a smile! I also saw Giraffe, Common Reedbuck, Scimitar, Warthog, Black Impala, Kudu, Bontebok, and Eland. (and others I'm sure).
     
    One Day... and Ridgewalker like this.

  17. Ridgewalker

    Ridgewalker AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2016
    Messages:
    3,940
    Video/Photo:
    112
    Likes Received:
    3,399
    Location:
    Colorado
    Hunted:
    South Africa: Limpopo, Northwest; USA: Ak, Mt, Wy, Co, Ne, Ks, Nv, NM, Tx
    WOW! You’ve definitely seen a lot of different animals! What a fun hunt!
    Thanks for sharing! I’m really enjoying this!
     
    Cam Moon likes this.

  18. TragicLogic

    TragicLogic New Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    1
    This account has just about sold me on booking with huntershill.
     

  19. One Day...

    One Day... GOLD SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2018
    Messages:
    585
    Video/Photo:
    171
    Likes Received:
    1,003
    Member of:
    PHASA
    Hunted:
    Europe (North, South, West), USA (East, West), Canada (British Columbia, Quebec, Newfoundland), Africa (Eastern Cape, Limpopo)
    You have asked for honest feedback Cam Moon, here is mine :)

    This first White Springbok with the damaged horns is absolutely gorgeous. It has a TON of character. Just imagine what the story could be that these horns would tell ? Repeated battles for breeding right? Near thing with a predator? Fall? This animal is clearly old, with great mass, great length, worn out ridges, discoloration, and beautiful curves. Truly indeed a trophy to be proud of! These are my favorite, I would gladly pass on a "standard" head, to get a shot at one like you got. I can assure you that Jason was not placating you, he probably was genuinely envious, as I am :whistle: Here is the secret: first timers or young hunters typically look for nice, regular, typical trophies. Old hands will hunt for days to get a shot at unique animals with great character...

    This is a great report that really captures the beauty and uniqueness of Huntershill. I just love these endless and unspoiled hillsides, the absolutely wild character of these animals, the hard, fair chase, and truly free range hunt, etc. I often wish that some folks who have been a bit disappointed in their safari, hunting 5 days in a row the same 5,000 acres, could have experienced Huntershill 188 square miles...

    Nice writing too (y)
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
    Cam Moon likes this.

  20. JPbowhunter

    JPbowhunter AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2013
    Messages:
    724
    Video/Photo:
    45
    Likes Received:
    686
    Hunted:
    Australia, New Zealand
    My honest feedback is that i think far too many people get hung up on score, medals and size.

    I don't pull the trigger on something unless I'm satisfied with that decision. If you need someone to tell you an animal is big to feel validated in taking it you're in the wrong passion. And at the end of the day, if a ph tells you it's a terrible and you believe it but it's actually a world beater of a head and you're only taking the word of someone else you'll never be happy.

    Having said that, reading your story you obviously had a great time and shot some fantastic animals which you're rapt with. I don't think it needs to be any more complicated than that in measuring your success or the quality of your trophies. I for one think they're all great.
     
    chris mattson and One Day... like this.

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