SOUTH AFRICA: Huntershill 2019 From Bad To Worse!!!

Discussion in 'Hunting Reports Africa' started by Dcarr, May 25, 2019.

  1. Dcarr

    Dcarr AH Senior Member

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    M
    Michael Dean I was under the same assumptions. When I started talking to them about this my number one animal was the barbary sheep. I was after a big one of 30 to 34 inches and was told at the DSC it was no problem. Again I assumed with all this land advertised it was going to be quite a hunt. The first morning of the hunt we drove an hour and a half to this God's Mountain place I reported about. The aoudad I shot was maybe 27 inches, I'll never know as I gave these animals away over there, but far short from what I was looking for and was told they could produce. Sure I could have shot one out of the small breeder pens behind the mans house but couldn't have ever brought myself to do this.
    I'm sure they have addressed the problem in the chalets or this might have even been an isolated incident but really doubt it or the other guys that were there wouldn't have told us about the broken glass in the floor of theres. Either way tho I can only hope it is addressed because I have a friend booked there and I pray he has a great experience.
    Dont know what to tell you about the dogs. I am a dog lover and have had and raised hunting dogs for over 40 years. We have had something of house dog for over the past 25 years but they are not allowed around our food or in the dining room.
    Our hunting lodge sets behind our house and 99% of our guests have never seen our chocolate lab that is our house dog now and a great companion. But not all people are dog people so why take the risk of exposing someone to this. It's there hunt and only our place. The dogs were a bit much even for us!!!
     

  2. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    @Mike Van Horn

    SA is not the issue.

    Would a hunt in a Communal Area or GMA that has no fences be a solution?
    Not if the last Outfitter operating on the place over hunted the place before they turned it over.
    Not if poaching has been out of hand and the populations are gone.
    "The property has not been hunted in years!" ( by International hunters.)
    Poachers have been doing fine though.

    It is all in the screening and asking the right questions.
    https://www.africahunting.com/threads/better-questions-to-ask-when-looking-for-a-hunt….23825/

    Here is a selection of photos of critters taken in Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Zambia and South Africa. Some behind fences others not.

    Which group of Buffalo is behind a fence? or in a small camp?
    IMG_7383.JPG IMG_4376.JPG IMG_3862.JPG


    Which Buffalo was hunted behind a fence?
    IMG_5202.JPG
    54aead6b-4dbb-4696-938c-0fc188acfa37.jpg Image-2018-03-12-22-37-06.jpg 2e886d1cc11f111d60b5bbb4ab8772e5de0b91b2Buffalo.jpg


    Which of these Loins is behind a fence?
    47.jpg masthead-lion.jpg mammal-2892906_1280.jpg
    575eff84-4617-4ec3-bf61-63cb3c4bf1fc.jpg
     
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  3. Dcarr

    Dcarr AH Senior Member

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    I shot 6 or 7. I think 6. Only 2 had eartags that I was aware of or actually seen. The bonte and the roan.
    I will tell you when I shot the hartebeest we found the heard with this bull in it. They would run a little ways and we pursued in the truck. I never had a clue that when they stopped this bull would break from the herd and chase 4 young small bulls off that were following them. Not knowing the hunting there I thought the four younger bulls was helping our cause by not letting the herd run off. Of course I was excited and zoned in on watching the bigger bull. He finally presented a shot and I took it. It wasnt till after I shot the roan a short time later and we was leaving that we drove by this same herd that just stood there and looked at us. I ask the PH if that was the same herd that we just took the bull out of. When he said yes the pieces of the puzzle had all pretty much fell into place.
    It's all in the presentation. If you go into these areas unwittingly looking for say a sable. Of course most will be glassed at a distance. You can get out and put a stalk on it the same as we did the roan. If your PH gets you within 100 or even 150 yards will you think the animal was out of a breeder pen and use to being around people and not scared or would you think your PH was really good and just knew what he was doing? Same with these buffalo I posted pics of. I'm not saying all the hunting at Huntershill is like this but what I was presented was.
    I will tell you also that a guy I know went over in early April before I did. When messaging him on Facebook he told me they seen several scimitar and bonte in a pasture they hunted. It wasnt until I returned and about a week ago we both commented on a post on FB. He told me that the pasture was 6000 acres. When I replied that was great but did he realize there was very little cover for the animals to escape and evade and if the animals were half tame they didnt know to be afraid. He stopped posting and messaged me he never realized until then. It was big enough that he really didnt realize what took place. Like he said if you are hunting concentrating on that one specific animal and when you get within gun range and take it, you cany realize you could have got a lot closer.
    Again, it's all in the presentation and when you have no clue you are at a disadvantage!!!
     

  4. Dcarr

    Dcarr AH Senior Member

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    Very good point and example Mike!!!
     

  5. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Did you ever ask about the range for these Sheep, where they were located and how they were hunted? or was it left to your assumption about acreage?
     

  6. Mike Van Horn

    Mike Van Horn AH Senior Member

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    These are all every good points. So it looks like research and asking the right questions and hopefully getting truthful answers.
    As far as your pictures, very nice, but l really think you are missing the big picture
     

  7. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    This can be quite common behaviour for several reasons. For instance on some properties you are NEVER allowed to shoot from a truck and indeed KZN has a law prohibiting shooting from within 200 metres of the vehicle. This changes the game entirely.
    It allows game viewing and the animals are never shy of the vehicle. Zero fear.
    Stop the vehicle and dismount the vehicle and see what happens! The animals scatter.
    This also occurs in many wild areas.
    I had the exact same experience in Mozambique hunting Sable. Totally wild area and they did not react to the truck. Get off the truck and the game changed instantly.

    KZN NATURE CONSERVATION ORDINANCE NO. 15 OF 1974
    48. Prohibited methods of and time for hunting of game.—(1) No person shall hunt or capture game—
    4. (d) by means of, from or within two hundred metres of any motor vehicle, aircraft, horse or other means of transport; provided that any person hunting birds, listed in Schedules 1, 2, 3 or 4, may do so within two hundred metres of any horse;
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019

  8. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Oh, I get the concern. I had a first hunt, just like you.
    I had to go through the entire process you are and that is why I try and help hunters as much as I can.

    I was so concerned that my first hunt would work out that I earned my PH license, spending 10 days in school learning.

    This kind of situation causes such a strong reaction from hunters because it is the ultimate nightmare we have when we travel.
    Possibly being misdirected or misled and having a nightmare.

    The Hunter needs to be informed in order to be in control of the experience they have. Research is the key.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019

  9. Royal27

    Royal27 AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    This is good information for potential clients to have. @HUNTERSHILL safaris is a big operation and is run as a large company would be, with issues delegated by Greg to others. He seems to be hands off and let's others deal with the issues when they occur as he has done here. More pressing matters for him to attend to I suppose.

    In my opinion, Reps are great and serve a purpose but don't replace the owner and boots on the ground to address issues. I dont ever recall an owner, and especially a sponsor, knowing about and ignoring an issue here on AH before. They've always addressed personally, which I admire.
     
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  10. mark-hunter

    mark-hunter AH Fanatic

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    To add a point to @BRICKBURN comment:
    There are three known behavioral zones for wild animals:

    - Sight zone (when the animal sees a man / or vehicle / or predator), but not running away -

    - Flight zone (when the animal decides to run away), measured in hundred of yards, or less depending of visibility and nature of threat (man/predator/vehicle)It is different for each of this "threat".

    - Fight zone (when animal decides to fight back), close quarters, wounded animal, etc.

    For the same animal, is not always the same for different things.

    The flight zone is quite shorter for the car, then for the man. Car alone is not usually taken as a threat. Thus no need to run.
    Unless they have been hunted from the car, then they run much earlier.
    Understanding when there is a need to run, and not to run saves the energy for wild animal.
    They will not be running away just like that

    But flight zone when (a walking) man is seen as a hunter, may be quite longer then the flight zone when man is seen as feeder, not a threat. that could be indication.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019

  11. Dcarr

    Dcarr AH Senior Member

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    We sure enjoyed y'alls company also and cannot begun to tell you how elated I am you guys had a great hunt and experience there. I think we were only in camp together for 2 nights and I know we weren't there when the newlyweds arrived on the 28th but those are just minor facts.
    The only thing I want to respond to is what you said about my report and of only portraying Huntershill as a " put and take" that bothers you. You have to figure or realize this was the only type of hunting I was subjected to there. So that's all I can honestly report on. If I was subjected to any other type of hunting I would have honestly reported on it also and I think I actually did when I talked about seeing animals on the mountain behind the lodge and said it would have been quite a hunt and probably more than I would have wanted. But I could not report on your experience there anymore than you could have mine.
    I would like to put something to bed as now I know who you are. Well i actually know this is either Jeff or Mark but not sure which one. But when visiting with y'all did or did not one of you 2 tell us about broken glass in the floor of the chalet that one of you were in. Even talked about the busted window it came from. I recall this was told to us in response to my wife telling y'all about the condition of our chalet. If I dreamed this because of the effects of the spider bite I apologize, but for some reason she remembers the same conversation.
    Again, I am so happy of y'alls success and experience you had at Huntershill. Hopefully we might run in to each other again on an African safari. You guys were fun and very easy to converse with. Good luck and good hunting!!!
     

  12. TXhunter65

    TXhunter65 AH Veteran

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    I guess it all comes down to information/research, communication, and as Danny said presentation. It is somewhat disconcerting when man who owns a put and take operation has the experiences he had never mentioning a word about it to the outfitter then choose to share those experiences with the world. Its unfair to the outfitter as they were never given any attempt to correct any issues while there. While Danny is claiming he refrained from sharing those issues with the outfitter as he's a gentlemen, I'd argue the exact opposite a gentlemen would either give the outfitter a chance to correct the issues or he'd say as much to the world as he did to the outfitter. I hope for Danny's sake no one visits his ranch has an issue and instead of bringing it to his attention waits until they literally walk out the door then informs the listening world of that experience.
     

  13. Hogpatrol

    Hogpatrol AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    In my experience, personal references are the best indicator of what, where and how any hunt is conducted. I would never purchase a hunt just looking at a website or going by what a rep says or how fancy is the booth at one of the hunting shows. I want to talk to someone who's either been there multiple times or speak with at least a half dozen or more who've been there. YMMV.

    Edit: This isn't a knock on Africa or Europe. The same goes for the Americas, North, South and Central.
     
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  14. TXhunter65

    TXhunter65 AH Veteran

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    Yes, I believe Mark did have some glass on the floor of his chalet, we did bring it to our PH's attention and were told one of the rhinos had gotten through the electric fence around the chalet area and had poked his horn through the window which is apparently why there were large rocks placed in front of all the chalet windows to deter this from happening. Lloyd also asked the cleaning staff to look at this area in his chalet to insure all the glass was removed. It was behind the chairs in his sitting area and under the curtains. Mark found it when he went to open his curtains the first evening. To my knowledge this was addressed. I honestly don't remember you or Lora saying anything to me about the condition of your chalet, but it could have been Mark, I also didn't realize he had told you about the glass in his chalet until reading about it.
     

  15. Dcarr

    Dcarr AH Senior Member

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    Glad to hear y'all are having a great time and the smile on your sons face is priceless. But your remark about my supposedly "agenda" is way off base unless you have facts. If so please reveal them, but you cant because there are none other than to make Huntershill and other hunters aware of my experience there. I have never nor would I take anything from Huntershill except the overcharge I incurred. I dont rep, broker, or anything else for any other outfitter or hunting places. So do tell sir where your suspicions or facts arise from.
    As far as you getting the facts from a friend of my PH that's hilarious. This isnt 2nd hand information but third hand when it comes from you. So you or the friend of his are only going by something he didnt even tell you personally you.
    I will close by saying that you might look around while you are still there and instead of criticizing me, use a little common sense and think that these issues have been addressed after I first posted this on Facebook a month ago. I just read on another post by a hunter that was there when I left and stayed another week or so that after I left but later in his stay the owner came in one evening and made the PHs remove all the dogs from the lodge. Was this just a coincidence, maybe, or was it in response to the post and discussion on Facebook.
    You see sir, my only agenda is to help make things better for other hunters to try and insure they have as good of a hunt as I have had at other outfitters there. My only motive is to keep people going back so in return I can keep returning because anyone with any sense should know, when the hunters quit going, especially the Americans, SA is truly screwed. I honestly dont think most people would return if they had an experience like I did. Hopefully Huntershill has made it better and from your reply it sure might seem that way.
    Good luck to you and especially your son!!!
     
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  16. TokkieM

    TokkieM AH Fanatic

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    The most concerning thing to me is that anyone who hunts (I use the term loosely) there could possibly think there is any wild animals on the place. The number of hunters are way more than any sustainable herd of any species could sustain and I am pretty sure the biotope could never carry the herd capacity needed to do it anyway. On a side note, low fence means nothing when it come to Springbuck, Blesbuck and Black Wildebeest, that low fence may as well be 6 meters high, they don't jump a fence easily.
     
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  17. Dcarr

    Dcarr AH Senior Member

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    Thank you for your honest response Jeff. I knew I had a good feeling about you guys. Not that you confirmed this but just the fact you did respond and it was honest.
    Again I'm happy y'all had a great time and sincerely hope we end up in the same camp someday. Have a great day and good hunting!!!
     

  18. Dcarr

    Dcarr AH Senior Member

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    I
    I did inquire and was told that there were several there at Huntershill which there was and we seen on the helicopter ride. They was right on top of the mountain and we were told they didnt get very big by the pilot who was also a PH.
    When we were on the way to the other place and I ask about why we were going somewhere else, I was told the only ones there at Huntershill were the ones we seen on the helicopter ride and that if you hunted them it was 6 hours walking up the mountain to them and 6 hours back down or hire the helicopter at $450 an hour to take you up and come get you after you shot one. Now it might just be me but I would think these are 2 very important things to outline when someone is inquiring about an aoudad hunt. I wouldn't personally think they do that many of them but I could be wrong.
    I do however have to admit i went by their brochure, website, and reports I'd read. It's 100% my fault for not inquiring further into the matter!!!
     

  19. CoElkHunter

    CoElkHunter AH Veteran

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    Maybe I'm wrong (happens a lot), but I don't think many of the Big 5 African trophies could be imported into the U.S. anyway in todays world? If they could be, I'd probably have to sell my home to pay for them, and then wouldn't have anywhere to hang them anyway? Ha!Ha! Maybe just LOTS of photos of the trophies taken and then hand the RENTED rifle back to the PH and then "adios" out of Africa. The more I read about African hunting, the more surprises pop up and the more complicated just wanting to hunt Africa seems to be. From firearms procedures to airlines hassles and now to "penned" game hunts? Maybe I'm just "overthinking" this thing, but again maybe not? Hunting exotic game in say Texas or New Mexico wouldn't be the same as Africa, but I could drive there from Colorado, bring ANY rifles I want, and probably drive back with not only trophies, but the meat! I'm thinking again. Dangerous!
     
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  20. Dcarr

    Dcarr AH Senior Member

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    We have had people here that wasnt satisfied. What can I say, it happens. Not very often and sure not because we dont try personally to give everyone the hunt we would want ourselves. And they have posted negatively about us after they left. I shared this with Pascal on the Facebook post. But instead of going on and on trying to convince everyone on the thread that it wasnt as they said or questioning there credibility I simple replied with 2 simple sentences; I'm sorry you didn't have a good hunt with us. Good luck with your future hunts and we hope you find what your looking for. Never heard anymore out of it. The thread stopped there. Unlike this where the more its replied to the more look and read.
    I will say that you should really refrain from bringing my ranch into this. You haven't been here, know anything about it, or know as much about it as you do my hunt at Huntershill. It only shows ignorance in assumptions and accusations that dont compare to proven facts. Just as in your other reply about the broken glass in Mark's room. You said you didnt recall us discussing the conditions of our chalets. Now maybe you wasnt present but what would common sense tell you about a conversation where Mark shared this. I guess I could have ask how his day was and he blurted out he had broken glass in his floor. Or maybe I said what are you hunting today and he answered with the broken glass in his floor.
    Sorry about the sarcasm but this is just exhausting to be questioned and blamed for something that was not my fault and for some reason unknown to me why I'm continually questioned on my credibility which might as well be calling me a liar. But if you go back to my original post on Facebook and read back to here you will see these issues I reported on have been proven to be true and factual time after time after time!!!
     
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