SOUTH AFRICA: Gizmo Family's African Safari Hunt

[johnnyblues]

Man.....learn something new everyday. I'm with you I thought soft followed by solids. Geez

 

[gizmo]

@johnnyblues and @Velo Dog how bout I bring the place to hang out and I cook

 

[ActionBob]

the Raptors are basically a solid that is packing 6 sharp projectiles that break off and create their own wound channels.

@Panielsen I would want to know much more about this before going after buffalo with it. Just the quote about breaking up seems way wrong on buffalo. Not that I am any expert. I've only shot two, so far. @TMS has already weighed in so Simon, what do you think about a bullet your shooting buffalo with being designed to break into 6 smaller pieces? Seems to me you want a big hole that goes deep and that typically takes good sectional density and retained weight, from what I'm told.

My first buff was shot with an A-Frame followed by solids and I regretted having those solids in rather than just more A-Frames, this was in a 416 Rem Mag. The A-frame made a nice big hole through both lungs but the buff came on angling past me so a soft went through from the right front shoulder and out left rear leg and he kept going... Took 6 bullets to make him stop breathing. The second was a TSX from my 505 Gibbs that traveled through a couple feet of buffalo making about a 4 inch path of destruction into the front of his chest and caused him to be laid up against a tree doing a death bellow.

The pic is a little 6.5 Hornady interbond, a 375 Trophy Bonded Bear Claw that entered the front shoulder of a lion and was found stuck in the stomach, and the 505 TSX after traversing a buffalo.

I guess I can understand the desire to try new things... But perhaps not on DG until proven on something, well.. less dangerous! Why not stich with things like an A-Frame, TSX, Trophy bonded Bear Claw, or even a PP Woodleigh soft?

 

[Red Leg]

Man.....learn something new everyday. I'm with you I thought soft followed by solids. Geez

I am a believer in the TSX. Out of a .375 in its 300 gr guise it will drill buffalo end to end and reach out and flatten a kudu on the next ridge. I shoot two from my S2 Blaser and a magazine full from my mauser. My PH could be Harry Selby himself, and he could not make me load solids after a TSX for buff.

 

[ActionBob]

so a soft went through from the right front shoulder and out left rear leg and he kept going.

Sorry, meant a solid.

I am sold on the TSX for penetration and just good killing power. Although the 300 grain Federal Premium Trophy Bonded Bear claw is tack driver in my M70 375 H&H. That is why I used it on lion. And look at that perfect mushroom in the above photo! A-Frames do regulate better with my solids. But all the above shoot perfectly MOB or minute of buffalo.

 

[K-man]

I am a believer in the TSX. Out of a .375 in its 300 gr guise it will drill buffalo end to end and reach out and flatten a kudu on the next ridge. I shoot two from my S2 Blaser and a magazine full from my mauser. My PH could be Harry Selby himself, and he could not make me load solids after a TSX for buff.

+1 on the TSX. See attached pics. One shot from a .375 300 grn and you can see the results on the heart.

 

[johnnyblues]

I love TSX personally. Although I have not used them on DG yet , they have performed outstanding on deer for me. Not a single buck took a step after being hit with them. Interestingly the opinions from PH,s here when I asked about them for my upcoming leopard hunt was they would rather I bring Nosler Parttion for my 300 wsm that I will be using. They claimed the TSX is just too clean for the cat.

 

[johnnyblues]

@johnnyblues and @Velo Dog how bout I bring the place to hang out and I cook

Ok , ho down at Gizmos place! Lol.

 

[Panielsen]

@Panielsen I would want to know much more about this before going after buffalo with it. Just the quote about breaking up seems way wrong on buffalo. Not that I am any expert. I've only shot two, so far. @TMS has already weighed in so Simon, what do you think about a bullet your shooting buffalo with being designed to break into 6 smaller pieces? Seems to me you want a big hole that goes deep and that typically takes good sectional density and retained weight, from what I'm told.

My first buff was shot with an A-Frame followed by solids and I regretted having those solids in rather than just more A-Frames, this was in a 416 Rem Mag. The A-frame made a nice big hole through both lungs but the buff came on angling past me so a soft went through from the right front shoulder and out left rear leg and he kept going... Took 6 bullets to make him stop breathing. The second was a TSX from my 505 Gibbs that traveled through a couple feet of buffalo making about a 4 inch path of destruction into the front of his chest and caused him to be laid up against a tree doing a death bellow.

The pic is a little 6.5 Hornady interbond, a 375 Trophy Bonded Bear Claw that entered the front shoulder of a lion and was found stuck in the stomach, and the 505 TSX after traversing a buffalo.

I guess I can understand the desire to try new things... But perhaps not on DG until proven on something, well.. less dangerous! Why not stich with things like an A-Frame, TSX, Trophy bonded Bear Claw, or even a PP Woodleigh soft?
View attachment 46013

I was thinking the same thing and am a fan of traditional bullets. However @michael458 has provided a ton of evidence supporting how devastating these bullets are. He has been using them on Buff, Elephant etc., for years. I had been talking to him for a while and looking at pics etc. I also researched the reviews online and they are getting great reviews. The entire bullet doesn't break up. Only the petals designed to at 2-3" depth. The shank continues straight while the petals create their own path. My only complaint on the Barnes is the fouling. I know they are devastating bullets and very accurate. Not bullet bashing. Hell, I was planning a Hornady safari until Gizmo told his well written tale here. That made my mind up for me that I don't want my first buff to end up lost, so I approached @michael458 again since he and I and some others had a spirited bullet discussion in another thread. Lots of great advice here in AH!!!

 

[ActionBob]

My wife used Hornady 150 grain GMX on her 5 critters including a big zebra. Great penetration a lot like the TSX. I'm thinking of using them on brown bear when I get to go after one. Flat shooting and available for the 375 Ruger. Given the choice of Hornady offerings, if I was using a 375 Ruger on Buff, I might be tempted to use those, although a bit light, I think they are the best thing Hornady offers. Of course I have enough over .40 options to use that I would not likely be using that gun on Buff.

 

[Panielsen]

My wife used Hornady 150 grain GMX on her 5 critters including a big zebra. Great penetration a lot like the TSX. I'm thinking of using them on brown bear when I get to go after one. Flat shooting and available for the 375 Ruger. Given the choice of Hornady offerings, if I was using a 375 Ruger on Buff, I might be tempted to use those, although a bit light, I think they are the best thing Hornady offers. Of course I have enough over .40 options to use that I would not likely be using that gun on Buff.

I'm with you on Hornady for sure! I use them exclusively... The report this thread started on was just eye opening, and caused me to look at other options. After talked extensively with @michael458 on bullets and terminal performance, visiting his web site, and reading so many good things about Cutting Edges Raptor bullets my mind was made up on using the Raptor as my expanding. I have already loaded many Hornady DGS in 500gr and still on the fence for the solid selection as @gizmo posted the first I have ever heard of one breaking up. I wonder if it was a bad batch for those, but have been hearing horror stories about the DGX. From what I have been reading, seeing in photos and videos the Cutting Edge Raptors are absolute DG destroyers. Now I can'y yet speak from experience as I have not yet shot my buff, that will be the end of October, but those who have used them extensively stand behind them. I know that Barnes as well has a great reputation and have used them on North American game. I just don't care for the fouling I have gotten with them. Hell, my .44 Mag. is loaded with Barnes when I go to my hunting ranch knowing I have a potentially dangerous cat living there. For my first buff I am going to try these Raptors and hopefully post a successful report of how they performed and kept my undergarments clean. They may or may not be followed by Hornady DGS', but if not then Cutting Edge solids will be in flight. @michael458 has load data, a wealth of knowledge and experience with these bullets and does answer PM's to help out. He has been a ton of help to me when searching for a replacement expander and even provided loads in the powder I like.

 

[Red Leg]

I was thinking the same thing and am a fan of traditional bullets. However @michael458 has provided a ton of evidence supporting how devastating these bullets are. He has been using them on Buff, Elephant etc., for years. I had been talking to him for a while and looking at pics etc. I also researched the reviews online and they are getting great reviews. The entire bullet doesn't break up. Only the petals designed to at 2-3" depth. The shank continues straight while the petals create their own path. My only complaint on the Barnes is the fouling. I know they are devastating bullets and very accurate. Not bullet bashing. Hell, I was planning a Hornady safari until Gizmo told his well written tale here. That made my mind up for me that I don't want my first buff to end up lost, so I approached @michael458 again since he and I and some others had a spirited bullet discussion in another thread. Lots of great advice here in AH!!!

No offense, but that sounds like a horrible load for thick skinned game. At 2-3" you haven't penetrated the hide of a buffalo, much less those thick ribs or shoulders. Sounds to me you would be creating a scenario where the sub-caliber little petals bury themselves in muscle, hide or bone, and you are left dependent upon a low BC solid remnant to reach vitals. Think about it, those fragments weigh what? - 50 -80 grns each? Really want to try and take out a buffalo with a .243? No thanks. And that solid remnant is what? Maybe 200 grns with relatively low BC after losing its front third or so? Seems like a sure bet to increase the chances of wounding that potentially once in a lifetime trophy.

 

[Velo Dog]

Since you are not trying to regulate a finicky old double rifle:
Get yerself some heavy for caliber Swift A-Frames then, shoot them straight and true, especially that first one.

If your PH prefers you use solids after that all important first shot, (most but evidently not all PHs do) IMO the best ones have a flat nose (aka "meplat" profile) and the toughest of them are the monometal ones.

Either way you charge your magazine, as long as you shoot that first heavy A-Frame into the right spot, you will soon thereafter be enjoying buffalo tenderloin on the braai.

 

[Red Leg]

+1

I am sure this guy has some experience with his new wonder fragmenting bullet. But literally thousands of buffalo have been cleanly taken by proven softs such as the A-Frame, the TSX, Bear Claw, etc. More tens of thousands have fallen to solids. If that all important first bullet is where it needs to be, they will continue to work every time. For my first buffalo, I know where I would place my very expensive bet.

 

[Panielsen]

No offense, but that sounds like a horrible load for thick skinned game. At 2-3" you haven't penetrated the hide of a buffalo, much less those thick ribs or shoulders. Sounds to me you would be creating a scenario where the sub-caliber little petals bury themselves in muscle, hide or bone, and you are left dependent upon a low BC solid remnant to reach vitals. Think about it, those fragments weigh what? - 50 -80 grns each? Really want to try and take out a buffalo with a .243? No thanks. And that solid remnant is what? Maybe 200 grns with relatively low BC after losing its front third or so? Seems like a sure bet to increase the chances of wounding that potentially once in a lifetime trophy.

LOL, I was thinking the same way. I just simply invite all to check out the info. I was impressed. I am doing a terrible job describing this to you fellas, so I will simply encourage yawl to check them out. I will not claim to be an expert yet as my first box has not arrived, but I will say that after all I have read, and discussed, they are worth looking at. Remember, I have never said I have even seen a Cape Buffalo in person let alone killed one, but from what I heard from those who have and seen the articles I think they are worth a look. I will post results with my safari report as that will be solid no BS assessment of how they performed. I am not preaching here, just speaking what I have learned so no need to apologize for being skeptical I assure you.

 

[Panielsen]

Since you are not trying to regulate a finicky old double rifle:
Get yerself some heavy for caliber Swift A-Frames then, shoot them straight and true, especially that first one.

If your PH prefers you use solids after that all important first shot, (most but evidently not all PHs do) IMO the best ones have a flat nose (aka "meplat" profile) and the toughest of them are the monometal ones.

Either way you charge your magazine, as long as you shoot that first heavy A-Frame into the right spot, you will soon thereafter be enjoying buffalo tenderloin on the braai.

I hope so! I am a bit of red meat fanatic! I wonder if they will have a smoker for Brisket??? I love brisket being from Texas!!!

 

[Red Leg]

Cutting Edge Bullets
Drifting, PA -(Ammoland.com)- The initial damage created is greater than that of any other bullet made. Hunters choose new bullet designed to more humanely and quickly kill animals.

“You owe it to the animal to put it down as quickly as possible”, says Randy Leopold, National Sales
Manager at Cutting Edge Bullets. The new ESP Raptor, Enhanced System Projectiles, (trademark pending) bullet produced by Cutting Edge Bullets is designed to create the absolute best terminal performance and accuracy on the market. The top portion of the bullet is designed that after it penetrates the animal at approximately 2”, the top portion of the bullet blows off into six petals that move away from the main wound channel in a star pattern. The main projectile continues to penetrate. “This design creates immediate massive amounts of damage resulting in quicker, if not instant, kills with less animal traumatic duration.” says Leopold.

I am sure this thing will chew up the shoulder of a thin-skinned target. I see no advantage it would offer on a buffalo. As I noted above I think you are simply turning your .375 into a .338 or a .416 into a .375.

 

[ActionBob]

I'm not a reloader but what @Red Leg is saying is what I was reading about that new bullet.. And he makes excellent points. Exactly the same thing my PH's have told me. I will personally continue to follow such logical and experienced advice.

 

[Velo Dog]

I hope so! I am a bit of red meat fanatic! I wonder if they will have a smoker for Brisket??? I love brisket being from Texas!!!

Hi Panielsen,

Although not from Texas, I too do enjoy properly slow smoked brisket.
Fact is, the excellent recipes you Texans use on all cuts of beef, pork , game, chickens, turkeys and all, would probably make an old shoe into a Western Gormet Delight.

My best guess is that your camp does not feature Texas recipes.
However, if you arrive with a sense of adventure, including at the supper table, you will be in for some very pleasant surprises.
Afrikaners are some of the world's best grill chefs.

Using local hardwoods to make hot coals and their local African spices to season the meat (and sometimes spices from India as well), I predict you will be impressed with their rendering of various meats, including wild buffalo.

Also, if they offer to grill "sheep" (what Americans call "lamb") I suggest you try it.
My opinion of it is tip-top.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[Panielsen]

Hi Panielsen,

Although not from Texas, I too do enjoy properly slow smoked brisket.
Fact is, the excellent recipes you Texans use on all cuts of beef, pork , game, chickens, turkeys and all, would probably make an old shoe into a Western Gormet Delight.

My best guess is that your camp does not feature Texas recipes.
However, if you arrive with a sense of adventure, including at the supper table, you will be in for some very pleasant surprises.
Afrikaners are some of the world's best grill chefs.

Using local hardwoods to make hot coals and their local African spices to season the meat (and sometimes spices from India as well), I predict you will be impressed with their rendering of various meats, including wild buffalo.

Also, if they offer to grill "sheep" (what Americans call "lamb") I suggest you try it.
My opinion of it is tip-top.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

Thanks @Velo Dog! I can't wait to try the food! I may have to break down and bring some "supplies" for my cook, just to give him some Texas flavor, Lol. I am actually hoping to try some of my Buff if successful. I love Bison and beef almost to a fault and want to expand my bovine pallet to include Cape Buff. I have been reading Ruark, and he speaks of the native trackers eating the stomach fat. Is that still done there?