SOUTH AFRICA: BOWHUNT: Pawprint Safaris

Total BS.... :S Bs Flag:

50lbs. is plenty provided that the entire set-up of bow/arrow/foc/broadhead style produces enough momentum which it easily can with the components that are available to bow hunters today. My wife has taken nearly every plainsgame animal in the Limpopo with a 52lb. bow. I have personally witnessed scores of other hunting clients enjoy great success with lower poundages provided the set-up is right.... She made a frontal shot on a giraffe last week with a 52lb. bow and a 650 grain arrow. She buried it up to the fletching. Myself, nor any of the PHs would never have allowed that if they didn't feel that it was enough of a set-up to ethically get the job done. I think your opinions on archery hunting are outdated and you need to educate yourself on what factors actually create arrow penetration with lower poundage bows.

I won't even bother to comment on the rest of this story. My advice is to quit while you are behind. :(

Nice of you to take a shot at me while i've just received my final warning from the owner of this web-page.
Leave me be.
I will answer to anything on this post through an official hearing by official people in South Africa.

Thankyou.
 
One reason is they have tried to vet the outfitter and trust him in his advice whether on hunting , where to stay after or before the hunt, taxidermy and dip & pack and a host of other things as it's his home turf. If the Outfitter recommends someone they have the responsibility to have checked out the place.

Agree, but it is also the responsibility of the hunter to check as well and not blindly trust no matter now nice of a guy the outfitter is on the showroom floor, or over e-mail. Fact is, outfitters aren't always experts in other areas, or they are getting a kick back for pushing only one taxidermist or D&P, based on money made by the outfitter, not the well being of the client.

About 15 years ago we were doing to kitchen remodel and much was going through Home Depot. We were working with a really nice guy that really seemed to know what he was doing. I thought. I was totally wrong, he didn't have a clue and talked us into a lot of bad decisions and poor purchases. It ended up being a total mess.... All Home Depot's fault? Nope, much was on me for trusting without verifying. Same thing applies here I think. By the way, HD did make things right, even when they really didn't have to.

Buyer beware!
 
Nice of you to take a shot at me while i've just received my final warning from the owner of this web-page.

Not taking a shot at you in any way my friend... You simply stated an opinion on lower poundage bows that I completely disagree with. At the risk of sounding arrogant, :sneaky: I happen to have a lot of experience and knowledge about bow hunting particularly pertaining to African game. So, I posed a different opinion based on my personal experiences. Being a PH as you are, you have a responsibility to provide the most accurate information to prospective clients. I have that same oblation as a representative of an outfitter who sponsors this forum. I believe that you are misinformed, and I don't want folks that shoot 50lb. bows thinking they can't hunt Africa because they don't shoot enough bow...

Lot's of folks have gentleman's disagreements on this forum and a civil exchange of opinions. That's what this forum is for... If you have a civil, respectful response to my comment, I'm sure Jerome will have no issue with you offering it... (y)
 
Not taking a shot at you in any way my friend... You simply stated an opinion on lower poundage bows that I completely disagree with. At the risk of sounding arrogant, :sneaky: I happen to have a lot of experience and knowledge about bow hunting particularly pertaining to African game. So, I posed a different opinion based on my personal experiences. Being a PH as you are, you have a responsibility to provide the most accurate information to prospective clients. I have that same oblation as a representative of an outfitter who sponsors this forum. I believe that you are misinformed, and I don't want folks that shoot 50lb. bows thinking they can't hunt Africa because they don't shoot enough bow...

Lot's of folks have gentleman's disagreements on this forum and a civil exchange of opinions. That's what this forum is for... If you have a civil, respectful response to my comment, I'm sure Jerome will have no issue with you offering it... (y)

Yes well.
Im on my last warning.
So. Im done.
Regards.
If you live in Africa.....good night.
 
Yes well.
Im on my last warning.
So. Im done.
Regards.
If you live in Africa.....good night.

I did for the last 3 weeks, but sadly, I am home now... :( Good night to you as well...
 
I know it's probably reported on AH somewhere but this might be a good place to post what the minimum requirements are for bow hunting equipment in South Africa. We have min. legal requirements in Alberta which have been developed over the years for the game that is available here from our prong horn to moose and bear.
 
Firehuntfish.
Apologies. My wife respectfully requested that i get off the internet and go have dinner.
I have been pretty hard pressed all day as i have other business aside from hunting.
Regarding bow hunting in Africa (i say Africa because ive ph'd bow hunting in Mozambique and Swaziland as well) okay. Let me rather refer to Southern Africa.
I have PH'd a lot of animals with bows. I do not own a bow myself but i have had mixed results from all that ive witnesses with yhese weapons.
I've seen superb performance, especially from very well experienced hunters and i've seen what i van only describe as embarrassing from others.
Regarding my point and your point above i suppose we could get into the same conversation as rifle hunters do with the common denominator being "use enough gun" sure, you can kill an elephant with a .22 with good or lucky shot placement.
So my minimum bow requirement for Southern Africa up to an Eland size animal would be 70 Pounds with fixed and proven broadheads.
Again.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
@ActionBob , taxidermists can hurt an outfitter in bad ways. Why don't clients do research on the taxidermist like they do on the hunting outfitter. I bet most clients do more research on airline flights than the taxidermist.
Yup Simon. I've learned a lot since my first safari. I was on this site but was very busy with a business deal that delayed that first trip so did not research much on here.

@billc helped me a lot with figuring out taxidermy.
 
Yup Simon. I've learned a lot since my first safari. I was on this site but was very busy with a business deal that delayed that first trip so did not research much on here.

@billc helped me a lot with figuring out taxidermy.

ActionBob
We will be raising this issue at the next phasa meeting.
Outfitters must do their bit with properly notifying clients about the average costs of their their trophies and the export of them.
This issue is huge.
It must be dealt with decisively now.
 
I know it's probably reported on AH somewhere but this might be a good place to post what the minimum requirements are for bow hunting equipment in South Africa. We have min. legal requirements in Alberta which have been developed over the years for the game that is available here from our prong horn to moose and bear.


https://www.africahunting.com/threa...ations-for-bow-hunting-in-south-africa.30152/

Sometimes it takes me a while to sort through the cob webs and find things in the recesses.
(By the way Norms and Standards were still under review last I heard, hence earlier comment about the law)
This is a great guideline.

NATIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT: BIODIVERSITY ACT, 2004 (ACT NO. 10 OF 2004)
No.34326 GOVERNMENT GAZETTE, 27 MAY 2011
NORMS AND STANDARDS FOR HUNTING METHODS IN SOUTH AFRICA

Permissible bows for bow hunting
6. The following are acceptable types of bows for bow hunting-
( a) longbow;
(b) recurve bow; and
(c) compound bow.

Minimum requirements for bow hunting
7. 1) The minimum requirements to hunt specific categories of wild or allen animals by means of
bow and arrow are the following-

a) For wild or alien animals of a small size. including gamebirds, small carnivores, hares, hyraxes,
rabbits and pygmy antelope, the-
i) kinetic energy should not be less that 30ft/lbs; and
ii) arrow weight should not be less than 300 grains;

(b) For wild or alien animals of medium size, including reedbuck, impala, blesbuck, warthog, bushpig,
springbuck and nyala, the-
i) kinetic energy should not be less that 50ft/lbs; and
ii) arrow weight should not be less than 380 grains;

(c) For wild or allen animals of large size, including wildebeest kudu, gemsbuck, zebra, waterbuck,
sable and hartebeest, the-
i) kinetic energy should not be less that 60ft/lbs; and
ii) arrow weight should not be less than 415 grains;

(d) Cape buffalo, the-
i) kinetic energy should not be less that 80 ft/lbs; and
ii) arrow weight should not be less than 750 grains; and

(e) Giraffe, the-
i) kinetic energy should not be less that 90ft/lbs; and
ii) arrow weight should not be less than 750 grains.

(2) In addition. to the requirements contemplated in sub-paragraph (1) the following conditions
apply with regards to the use of mechanical broad heads-
( a) for species contemplated In sub-paragraphs (1)(a), (1)(b) and (1)(c), 5% additional kinetic energy is
required;
(b) broad heads must have at least two cutting edges; and
(c) the minimum permitted arrow length is 50cm.
 
interesting, Thanks
 
It is hard to vet a taxidermist for dip & pack because people like Dennis and I fix their screw ups and the client never knows. Their taxi work is not always a example of their D&P.
 
https://www.africahunting.com/threa...ations-for-bow-hunting-in-south-africa.30152/

Sometimes it takes me a while to sort through the cob webs and find things in the recesses.
(By the way Norms and Standards were still under review last I heard, hence earlier comment about the law)
This is a great guideline.

NATIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT: BIODIVERSITY ACT, 2004 (ACT NO. 10 OF 2004)
No.34326 GOVERNMENT GAZETTE, 27 MAY 2011
NORMS AND STANDARDS FOR HUNTING METHODS IN SOUTH AFRICA

Permissible bows for bow hunting
6. The following are acceptable types of bows for bow hunting-
( a) longbow;
(b) recurve bow; and
(c) compound bow.

Minimum requirements for bow hunting
7. 1) The minimum requirements to hunt specific categories of wild or allen animals by means of
bow and arrow are the following-

a) For wild or alien animals of a small size. including gamebirds, small carnivores, hares, hyraxes,
rabbits and pygmy antelope, the-
i) kinetic energy should not be less that 30ft/lbs; and
ii) arrow weight should not be less than 300 grains;

(b) For wild or alien animals of medium size, including reedbuck, impala, blesbuck, warthog, bushpig,
springbuck and nyala, the-
i) kinetic energy should not be less that 50ft/lbs; and
ii) arrow weight should not be less than 380 grains;

(c) For wild or allen animals of large size, including wildebeest kudu, gemsbuck, zebra, waterbuck,
sable and hartebeest, the-
i) kinetic energy should not be less that 60ft/lbs; and
ii) arrow weight should not be less than 415 grains;

(d) Cape buffalo, the-
i) kinetic energy should not be less that 80 ft/lbs; and
ii) arrow weight should not be less than 750 grains; and

(e) Giraffe, the-
i) kinetic energy should not be less that 90ft/lbs; and
ii) arrow weight should not be less than 750 grains.

(2) In addition. to the requirements contemplated in sub-paragraph (1) the following conditions
apply with regards to the use of mechanical broad heads-
( a) for species contemplated In sub-paragraphs (1)(a), (1)(b) and (1)(c), 5% additional kinetic energy is
required;
(b) broad heads must have at least two cutting edges; and
(c) the minimum permitted arrow length is 50cm.

All of the above 100% agreed. It is law. Why mess with it????
 
All of the above 100% agreed. It is law. Why mess with it????

Not sure you read the law correctly Bestguide - the numbers listed are for KE not draw weight. Using the minimum arrow weight of 415 grains, the bow would only be required to shoot at roughly 255 fps to reach the required 60 ft-lbs to take large antelope species. Most compound bows today will hit 300 fps fairly easily. As others have pointed out, draw weight is not the only determining factor for what game a bow can effectively take.
 
I have said and proved my piece.

John,

I have stayed out of this thread intentionally, it is usually my practice in such threads. I have learned over my years on this earth, that jumping in and taking a side in fight over some issue I had nothing to do with, is a good way to end up looking stupid. I have no dog in this fight and as such I'm still not taking a side as I write this post. You may want to tell me off after I write this, but I'm really not attacking you nor am I defending anyone. I'm really just taking a look at this as an outsider with no vested interest in what happened or what should be done about it if anything.

I have followed this thread only since yesterday. A short summary of this thread shows me:

1) A week ago today the original poster started this thread about their hunt with you. While the name John was used in her original post and again later, your last name was not used. Anyone reading this would not have been able to know who John the PH actually was. Therefore for all intents and purposes you were anonymous at that time.

2) In the second post of this thread, Pieter explains his part of the story, but most importantly offered a free hunt to compensate for what happened. It really doesn't matter if what went wrong was yours, Pieter's or even the client's fault. Pieter took it upon himself to make the situation right.

3) At some point it would seem later the client has expressed the offer of Pieter's to be satisfactory.

4) The thread at that point turned into a discussion of taxidermy and issues faced there. But in regards to the original issue, the matter seemed to be resolved.

5) Six days later after being tipped off to this thread from a friend, you join AH to post your feelings on the matter. Again prior to posting, nobody outside of the client and Pieter knew who John the PH was. It was only at that time when you posted your last name that anyone uninvolved or uninformed about the hunt would know who John the PH actually was.

So as I look back a few questions / comments come to mind:
1) Why all the emotion? I get it that you feel inappropriately attacked by both Pieter and the client. And under the same circumstances, I know I'd be pissed. But bringing out the emotion in your posts does nothing for your argument. And in fact dilutes it in my mind. A twist on Shakespeare...... "The PH thou dost protest too much, methinks" is the thought crossing my head.

2) As mentioned, virtually no one actually knew who you were until you revealed your last name. So I can't help but wonder why you bothered to get into the thread? Especially since it seemed to be drifiting towards taxidermy and away from the hunt. Until someone had identified you by name, you had nothing to lose by staying out, but much by getting into it. So what was your motivation for posting in this thread? This is truly a question as I really can't figure out what your intentions were.

3) You're coming across like someone with an axe to grind. Perhaps there's a valid reason for that. However it once again does nothing for your argument, it takes away from it.

4) In response directly to the part I've quoted you and with all due respect, you've not proven anything with any sort of documentation or other evidence. You've made some pretty serious accusations against Pieter, but have substantiated none of them. Perhaps you can, but you haven't so far. In other words you're expecting the readers of this thread to take your word over both Pieter's and the client's. For me personally I've never met you, the client and only very briefly have I spoke to Pieter during show season. I doubt our conversations have lasted 5 minutes in total. So I really don't know any of the parties involved in this. Why would I take one stranger's word over another? If you're going to make accusations it's up to you to prove it, not just say it. Failure to prove it only serves to chip away at your credibility.
 
https://www.africahunting.com/threa...ations-for-bow-hunting-in-south-africa.30152/

Sometimes it takes me a while to sort through the cob webs and find things in the recesses.
(By the way Norms and Standards were still under review last I heard, hence earlier comment about the law)
This is a great guideline.

NATIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT: BIODIVERSITY ACT, 2004 (ACT NO. 10 OF 2004)
No.34326 GOVERNMENT GAZETTE, 27 MAY 2011
NORMS AND STANDARDS FOR HUNTING METHODS IN SOUTH AFRICA

Permissible bows for bow hunting
6. The following are acceptable types of bows for bow hunting-
( a) longbow;
(b) recurve bow; and
(c) compound bow.

Minimum requirements for bow hunting
7. 1) The minimum requirements to hunt specific categories of wild or allen animals by means of
bow and arrow are the following-

a) For wild or alien animals of a small size. including gamebirds, small carnivores, hares, hyraxes,
rabbits and pygmy antelope, the-
i) kinetic energy should not be less that 30ft/lbs; and
ii) arrow weight should not be less than 300 grains;

(b) For wild or alien animals of medium size, including reedbuck, impala, blesbuck, warthog, bushpig,
springbuck and nyala, the-
i) kinetic energy should not be less that 50ft/lbs; and
ii) arrow weight should not be less than 380 grains;

(c) For wild or allen animals of large size, including wildebeest kudu, gemsbuck, zebra, waterbuck,
sable and hartebeest, the-
i) kinetic energy should not be less that 60ft/lbs; and
ii) arrow weight should not be less than 415 grains;

(d) Cape buffalo, the-
i) kinetic energy should not be less that 80 ft/lbs; and
ii) arrow weight should not be less than 750 grains; and

(e) Giraffe, the-
i) kinetic energy should not be less that 90ft/lbs; and
ii) arrow weight should not be less than 750 grains.

(2) In addition. to the requirements contemplated in sub-paragraph (1) the following conditions
apply with regards to the use of mechanical broad heads-
( a) for species contemplated In sub-paragraphs (1)(a), (1)(b) and (1)(c), 5% additional kinetic energy is
required;
(b) broad heads must have at least two cutting edges; and
(c) the minimum permitted arrow length is 50cm.
I shoot Magnus Stinger with the bleeder blades or Slick Trick 4 blades. Look at the pic of the waterbuck. Neither of these are mechanical.
 

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