So, What Is A 'Survival' Knife...??

[observe]

 

[geoff rath]

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One suggestion for those who are without so far: the Nepalese "Kukri" system ...

 

[freefall]

Depending on a knife to survive means some egregious upscrewery has taken place.
Of course, I believe that having an "adventure" is the result of poor planning. Otherwise you'd be having a pleasant outing.
But always take your Zippo.

 

[observe]

The main difference between a Bush crafting/camping knife and a 'survival' knife is
- The first [smaller] one you take IN to your planned trip/camp etc [mainly for cutting, carving, skinning jobs]
-And the second [bigger] one need to have different applications ,as it had to take you OUT of a crises situation [mainly for slashing, chopping, defense, building etc jobs]

 

[Art Lambart II]

I prefer to carry a bushcraft knife, folding saw and a hatchet when in in the field but I am a gear head so my opinion my not count.

 

[JPmbogo]

This should be an interesting thread as I suspect it's like asking what's the best rifle!

Ah, Walter Mitty is alive and well on this website!

 

[rookhawk]

I think its pretty interesting what imminently qualified professionals, search and rescue, and military consider a survival knife.

If survival doesn't include stabbing someone to death, then the needle-point commando knives are not in-scope.

In the end, a survival knife is a really durable, really small knife. 3" blade. Extra thick. You can strike a ferro rod on it. See bushcraft knives and scandi knives for "survival knives".

It turns out John Rambo's version doesn't exist in practical real-world conditions.

 

[Alaska Luke]

Primitive skills are cool and they might save your life. But I'm not carrying 5 pounds of tools on a hike if there is a better option.
Instead of carrying a big knife, are, etc to MAKE a shelter how about carrying a tarp and jackets?

Tarp with string -10oz
30 degree down sleeping bag - 16 Oz
Short foam pad - 6 oz.

Basically 2 pounds will get you through a night out more comfortably then 2 pounds of tools ever will.

 

[Art Lambart II]

I spend way too much time watching videos and reading books on Bushcraft and Survival. I also spend a lot of time practicing those skills. I understand that when people talk about a survival knife they are really talking about a “One Tool Option”. The classic requirement for this knife is a fixed, high carbon steel, full tang blade 5” or greater in length, with a minimum blade thickness of 1/8” and a sharp 90-degree spine. These requirements are based around the two most basic survival needs, fire and shelter. When struck with a hard stone the high carbon blade will produce a spark allowing you to light very, very fine tinder or charred material. With a 5” or greater full tang blade you can cut, chop, baton and process wood up to 4-1/2” thick for fire building and shelter making. The 90-degree spine it used to shave wood and process tinder, allowing you to save your primary edge for cutting tasks. In our modern world the 90-degree spine is also great for striking a ferro rod.

Short bladed knifes 3-1/2” or less (Pocket knives, multi-tools, neck knifes and small fixed blades) are handy, nimble and usually good slicers but they are very poor choppers and poor firewood processers. I love these types of knifes, I own lots of them and carry at least two of them every day. The finest knife I own, a Von Gruff Bullnose Mini Skinner fits into this category but I would never use it as a one tool option. Now if you let me pair my Von Gruff with a hatchet or a folding saw that’s a totally different story.

With all that said the most popular size and style of belt knife carried by Non-Military survival instructors is a 4” bushcraft knife. These types of knifes are poor choppers but they are good at all the other survival tasks and easy to carry.

Most of us carry a multi-tool in the field and they normally have one or two 3” blades and a crafting saw plus a few other tools, pair this with a large chopping tool and your good to go. If you watch the show “Alone” you’ll notice that very few people carry a belt knife anymore, they bring a Multi-tool, an Axe and a Saw.

The most important tool you can have in a survival situation weights nothing, you can’t lose it on the forest floor, and it gets more useful the older you get: Knowledge. I don’t care what type of knife you use, a 3” folding knife or an 18” Parang, it you can’t walk into your local woods during a rainstorm with your knife of choice and Bic lighter and start a fire you need more practice. This type of knowledge only comes thru lots of dirt time so practice, practice, practice and before you ask, yes, I need more practice, that’s why I still EDC several man-made tinder’s.

I’ll leave you with these word from one of the greatest survival instructors of our time Mors Kochanski “The more you know the less you carry”.

 

[Art Lambart II]

Primitive skills are cool and they might save your life. But I'm not carrying 5 pounds of tools on a hike if there is a better option.
Instead of carrying a big knife, are, etc to MAKE a shelter how about carrying a tarp and jackets?

Tarp with string -10oz
30 degree down sleeping bag - 16 Oz
Short foam pad - 6 oz.

Basically 2 pounds will get you through a night out more comfortably then 2 pounds of tools ever will.

I'm a gear head and I agree with you. I can find a shelter system that weighs 10 oz, but where did you find a down bag that only weighs 16 oz and a 6 oz foam sleeping pad?

 

[Art Lambart II]

Primitive skills are cool and they might save your life. But I'm not carrying 5 pounds of tools on a hike if there is a better option.
Instead of carrying a big knife, are, etc to MAKE a shelter how about carrying a tarp and jackets?

Tarp with string -10oz
30 degree down sleeping bag - 16 Oz
Short foam pad - 6 oz.

Basically 2 pounds will get you through a night out more comfortably then 2 pounds of tools ever will.

I did some online shopping and to my suprise I was able to find all those items for the weights listed.

Tarp with Tie-outs $70
Sleeping Bag $380
Sleeping Pad $220

If you carry those items in a cheap back pack your looking at $700. Now I know why I'm not an ultralite camper.

 

[Alaska Luke]

I did some online shopping and to my suprise I was able to find all those items for the weights listed.

Tarp with Tie-outs $70
Sleeping Bag $380
Sleeping Pad $220

If you carry those items in a cheap back pack your looking at $700. Now I know why I'm not an ultralite

Actually what I had in mind was a $20 foam pad trimmed to 3/4 length. The sleeping bag would be pricey if down, a synthetic bag would be cheaper but heavier. I went ultralight on a budget for a long time. I could go out for a week with about 8 pounds of gear, add food and water and I was carrying 20 pounds or less. For warm weekend trips my total pack weight was more like 12 pounds.

Point is a survival kit based on ultralight backpacking gear would be more practical then a lot of the "build everything from scratch" bushcraft kits.

 

[Long Ranger]

You've got a nice collection !

 

[bowjijohn]

There is no such thing as the perfect 'survival knife', every choice is a compromise.

I'm definitely in the 'modest knife' camp.

I'm guilty of oscillating between a traditional bush craft knife of high carbon steel and one of similar design in RL 34

I do carry an ESEE 6 on my pack in Mozambique and a folding saw in a pouch on my belt. I like a good quality forest axe, but am mindful of excess load.

Environment and task tends to dictate choice but I'm fond of the idea that with knowledge and skill you can make do with poor kit, but good kit is no compensation for lack of knowledge and skill

I'm not keen on the term 'survival training' other than for very specific applications

I teach bushcraft to civilians though I also get involved in SERE training for the military

The British military SERE school is 4 miles up the road from me and many of the guys I work with are products of, or instructors at, the school

When asked the difference between bushcraft and survival - I like to quote this chap who goes some way to a reasonable explanation

Bushcraft and survival

People are often confused about the difference between survival and bushcraft.

P Kirtley, a leading practitioner in the field of bushcraft, in an article for the National Geographic Society, invited people to consider 3 situations:

1. Someone heads out into the woods for a while, lights a fire by using the bow-drill method of fire lighting – he is applying a bushcraft skill

2. Another person undertakes a wilderness canoe trip in Canada. He has a mishap and loses his boat. He manages to swim to shore but is now stranded in the wilds with only the kit he has on him. He takes a shoelace from his boot, fashions a bow and makes a fire using the bow drill method to dry himself and his clothes thus keeping hypothermia at bay. He is employing a survival skill.

3. You are invited to a BBQ and later in the evening, your host, for the benefit of a few interested guests, provides a demonstration of the bow and drill. In this context he is doing a party trick.

He suggests, with some validity, that the difference is largely down to context.

 

[observe]

Very interesting comments and I agree

Knives are specialized tools and are divided roughly into three different categories;

Each has its own purpose and right to exist-

1] Big bladed impact knives-heavy bladed choppers, smashers, [Panga, Parang, Kukri etc.]

2] Contact knives- Shorter, thinner, sharper blades for skinning, cutting, carving [Bush crafting or camp belt knives] -lots of specialized blade shapes and grinds available. Most popular is 2.5-4.5 inch blades with a spear point or drop point. [Good pocket knives and multi-tools fall in this category as well]

3] Piercing/stabbing knives -also tactical- or fighting knives with the emphases mainly on a sharp stabbing point [bayonets', combat knives, bear claw knives, slim stiletto knives etc] -can be a fixed blade or pocket knife.
Not many that owned these type of knives are trained experts to use it as intended...

Then there are the legio hybrids in-between that try to combine 2 or even all 3 categories.....

For most of us hunters and campers, a category 2 knife, maybe paired with a small ax or saw will serve all our needs.
It will also all depends where you are going and your skill level with your chosen knife....

In a real crises situation the pocket knife with you are of more value than the custom knife in tour safe at home, and even a simple kitchen knife will do...

 

[steve white]

survival?...something tough enough that you don't mind using it to split wood or other chores you would never subject your pet blades to...?

 

[observe]

 

[freefall]

Contrarywise. I can cut up a carrot with my 9" Rehwappen. It has never felt too big when carving into a moose.
It's like the caliber wars. You say your .257 Roberts is plenty because you've killed an elk with it.
I say my .338 Win is plenty because I've killed moose and bear with it.
Neither of us has shot an elephant.