Single Shot Saturday - Show us your Single Shots!

[Aussie Chris]

Top is my Browning 1885 Highwall in 7mm Mag. My go to deer rifle for the last 25 years.

Bottom is a Sharps in 45/120 with a period correct Malcolm scope. Only taken 1 whitetail doe with it so far. Heavy beast to carry. I would love to take it for Bison or buffalo sometimew.

View attachment 755497

I’m curious about the 45/120.
I’ve never seen one but how close is it to a 450NE?

I know they have no relation and one is not the parent of, or based on the other. But they are both long straight walled rimmed .458 cal cartrages.

I’m guessing the allowable pressure in the 45/120 is less than the 450NE. Are they at all interchangeable? Will one fit into, and fire in the others rifle? They must look almost identical on the outside regardless right?

 

[Huvius]

I’m curious about the 45/120.
I’ve never seen one but how close is it to a 450NE?

I know they have no relation and one is not the parent of, or based on the other. But they are both long straight walled rimmed .458 cal cartrages.

I’m guessing the allowable pressure in the 45/120 is less than the 450NE. Are they at all interchangeable? Will one fit into, and fire in the others rifle? They must look almost identical on the outside regardless right?

The two are very different.
The 450NE is larger at the base and has a thinner rim.
The 450NE was originally a black powder cartridge just as the 45-120 was (is) and the 450BPE was often charged with 120grs of black so the powder charges would be the same although the 450 was generally loaded with much lighter bullets than the 45-120.
If one was so inclined, a 45-120 could be rechambered to 450NE and either black powder or nitro for black equivalent loads could be used.
I would also think that a modern heavy barreled Sharps could pass proof for full 450NE cartridges. The barrel could certainly take it but I don’t know what pressure the action is up for.

 

[meigsbucks]

#1 in .458 Lott with Leupold 1.5-5x with heavy duplex
#3 in .45/70 with 1-4x duplex
T/C Encore with .280 Rem barrel with 6x Leupold Compact scope. Also have .243, .300 Win mag and 9.3x74R barrels.

 

[Daryl S]

14 bore sporting rifle held by my late hunting buddy, Brad.
2nd, Sharps in .45 1.9".
3rd .50 JDBeck.
.36 SMRifle.

 

[GeorgeGibbs505]

Westley Richards Martini in 32-40. Full ribbed barrel, Westley hooded front sight with night sight, 1 standing and 4 folding to 500 yds.

 

[HWL]

Thank you, it is in calibre 5,6x57R.

Do you have a source for ammunition?

HWL

 

[KJE81]

Do you have a source for ammunition?

HWL

I bought 200 new cases when I bought the rifle.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I’m curious about the 45/120.
I’ve never seen one but how close is it to a 450NE?

I know they have no relation and one is not the parent of, or based on the other. But they are both long straight walled rimmed .458 cal cartrages.

I’m guessing the allowable pressure in the 45/120 is less than the 450NE. Are they at all interchangeable? Will one fit into, and fire in the others rifle? They must look almost identical on the outside regardless right?

@Aussie Chris
The 45-120 is a big case.
My mate used to load his with 2213sc but I don't know what load.
Attached is a photo left to right 308, 405 win and 45-120.
Bob

 

[Daryl S]

The .450 3 1/4 Express is a BP round, originally, just like the Sharps 3 1/4" case. The only difference is in factory bullet weights and actual ctg. case dimensions. I assume the difference in bullet weights is or was due to rifling twist and intended game and expected trajectoires. The Sharps rifles generally had 18" ROT's, seems to me. I di not know the ROT's of the .45 3 1/4"Express rifles. If you are referring to the .450Nitro Express, that is a different animal.
The Sharps case was never an "EXPRESS" ctg. and was intended to be a long range bison ctg., using bullets from 500gr. through 540gr., whereas the .450 Express, loaded with 270gr. through 340gr. bullets was intended for the plains game antelope etc. of Africa, I believe.
I assume both could be loaded to similar pressures if chambered in the same rifle.
I loaded an "Express-type" load for my brother for his .45 3 1/4" Shiloh Sharps, using Hornady 300gr. H.P. bullets over 62gr. Re#7. + kapok to fill the space between bullet anf powder. This load produced 2,200fps from hhe 30" bl. It also cloverleafed 3 rounds in 2 successive groups at 100yds for him, using the tang aperture and blade front sight. He shot one moose with this load, broadside at about 40yds. The bullet exited the off side makingva 1" exit hole. Both lungs were pulverized and no.meat was destroyed, except where the bullet centered a rib on the off side. The moose walked about 30feet and lay down, dead.
I do not know if this load would be safe in the British BP Express rifle. It was OK in his Sharps with it's large dia. BP firing pin.

 

[Lance Hopper]

Kurt, I sent you a PM

 

[Kynoch2015]

New this weekend from the Tulsa show.

Top: Lone Star 50-70
Bottom: Cody Ballard 40-65 4 1/2 Midrange

Both appear unfired.

 

[Daryl S]

The .450 BPE and the Sharp's case are not of the same dimensions. Seems to me, the English case actually had just a bit more capacity as it was slightly larger in the base diameter and also had a thinner rim.

 

[Huvius]

The .450 BPE and the Sharp's case are not of the same dimensions. Seems to me, the English case actually had just a bit more capacity as it was slightly larger in the base diameter and also had a thinner rim.

Correct.
The standard powder charge for the 450 3-1/4” was 120grs with a variety of bullet weights. I suppose the lighter bullets required a taller wad stack to keep the same OAL

 

[Daryl S]

When I had the #1 Rolling Block chambered in .45 3 1/4" Sharps, I used PP bullets, 460gr. to 560gr. patched to .001"larger than the bore, which was .449". I only seated them 1/8" in the case, with a 110" hard card (monopoly board) under the bullet, then a lube disk/ball, then disk of wax paper under the lube, then the 1/10" compressed powder charge. RCBS cases had 120gr. 2F and my BELL brass held 122gr. 2F.
These, with the 560gr. consistently went intp 1.3" to 1.5" at 100 meters. My 200meter groups stayed 2 1/2" or a little smaller. The barrel was a heavy, Richard Hoch barrel. The rifle weighed 16 pounds.

 

[1:66 twiste@d]

45/90 cva hunter.

 

[Hagler.450Ex]

I have yet to get my Husky .450 cleaned up, and she is still as received (greasy), as I had another rifle I had to work on ahead of her, but should be in a couple weeks, and I can't wait to see how she does. I did manage, however, to get all my paper-patching stuff ready.

 

[Hagler.450Ex]

The .450 BPE and the Sharp's case are not of the same dimensions. Seems to me, the English case actually had just a bit more capacity as it was slightly larger in the base diameter and also had a thinner rim.

Yes, the .450 Black Powder Express and Nitro-for-Black are the same 'exact' case as the full Nitro, only the loadings are different. This is a bit dangerous too, if someone does not know the difference and shoves a Nitro cartridge into an older express rifle. It has happened many times, no doubt. It's best to keep the two types of cartridges and rifles very separated if there are others around that do not know the difference. Like many double express rifles that have had this happen to them, and like this rolling block, it is doubtful that there would be a catastrophic failure on the first shot, but weakening of the joins would occur, and would ultimately lead to one, and in turn, ruin a good rifle, and sadly, possibly someone's health as well. Nitro-for-Black loads are fine, however, and kept at even below blackpowder pressures, while still giving the same velocity as black powder. Either brand of 4198 is the regular powder for that---- .40 X (original load of blackpowder) = grains of 4198. Plus enough dacron pillow stuffing to 'just' keep it 'firm'....not tight, but just cozy. I weigh that as well. Experimentation will determine your grain weight in dacron. Smaller cases don't need it, but larger ones like this and upwards experience hang-fires without.

Edit to add: Quite a few Victorian express rifles have been officially re-proofed and stamped for the full nitro load, and that is a testimony to the craftsmen of the day, but if it has not been to the proofing house, then keep the full-Nitro ammo away from the kids. We were all that age once too, we know how their brains work. Also, keep it away from idiots as well, as they have no brains to begin with.

 

[Daryl S]

I said the .45 3 1/4" Sharps case was not the same as the .450 BPE case. That is the truth.
The British cases for the Nitro and BPE case have a nominal base diameter of .545", while the Sharps case has a nominal base diameter of .508".

 

[Kynoch2015]

A thousand words… (or may be two thousand.)

 

[Daryl S]

.506 to .508, normal variance depending on the source.