Should parents be held responsible?

JimP

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From what I have heard on this situation they parents do have some responsibility in this case. Just how much is yet to be determined.
 

Red Leg

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Slippery slope. A minor takes the car without permission because the keys were left on the table and kills someone at the red light he runs .......

Would be useful to know if Michigan state law requires firearms to be kept secured - my guess is no.

That said, if this kid was truly unstable, perhaps the parents should indeed have exercised more caution.

Apparently, the school did have a conference with the parents just before the incident and the school took no action. Charging the parents will take the media eye of the school's apparent lack of action. Somehow though, four counts of involuntary manslaughter seems a bit of overreach.

Meanwhile in sunny California Baldwin can kill someone and then portray himself on national television as the victim.

Interesting times we live in.
 
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Boyd Brooks

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Slippery slope. A minor takes the car without permission because the keys were left on the table and kills someone at the red light he runs .......

Would be useful to know if Michigan state law requires firearms to be kept secured - my guess is no.

That said, if this kid was truly unstable, perhaps the parents should indeed have exercised more caution.

Apparently, the school did have a conference with the parents just before the incident and the school took no action. Charging the parents will take the media eye of the school's apparent lack of action. Somehow though, four counts of involuntary manslaughter seems a bit of overreach.

Meanwhile in sunny California can kill someone and then portray himself on national television as the victim.

Interesting times we live in.
That is also some of my concern, the slippery slope, but following other threads, some think responsibility also falls on others that were not holding the firearm.
Wondering if people here feel that responsibility should be extended to parents.
Being charged is not being guilty however is it appropriate in this situation?
 
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Mark A Ouellette

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I live in Michigan. I am liable for the misuse of any of my unsecure firearms.
With a 16 year old in the house I keep my guns secure in safes.

As for the subject case, the kid and his parents had met with the school principle earlier this week.
They had a second meeting the morning of the school shooting.
Did the kid have the pistol in his possession during the second chat with the principle?

My 16 year old and most of south east Michigan high school students are home today due to "threats" against their specific high schools. What is this world coming to?
 

revturbo9967

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We hear the argument all the time "we need to focus on mental health, not more gun control". In this case the school saw red flags and brought them up to the parents who seamlessly did not care enough to keep a firearm from being accessed by their son. I do believe they have some involvement in this case, how much is to be determined.
 

sestoppelman

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We hear the argument all the time "we need to focus on mental health, not more gun control". In this case the school saw red flags and brought them up to the parents who seamlessly (seemingly) did not care enough to keep a firearm from being accessed by their son. I do believe they have some involvement in this case, how much is to be determined.
Fixed it for ya.
 

YancyW

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I live in Michigan. I am liable for the misuse of any of my unsecure firearms.
With a 16 year old in the house I keep my guns secure in safes.

As for the subject case, the kid and his parents had met with the school principle earlier this week.
They had a second meeting the morning of the school shooting.
Did the kid have the pistol in his possession during the second chat with the principle?

My 16 year old and most of south east Michigan high school students are home today due to "threats" against their specific high schools. What is this world coming to?

Can you point us to the state statute related to this topic in MI? This is an area I law I have worked in around the country and I didn't know MI had a criminal liability element related to storage. I'm not at all saying that it doesn't, but I didn't know about it and I couldn't find it when I did a very quick search.
 

Tam Dl

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I read it the way you read it, but it could mean civil liability, I suppose.

Baldwin shot someone in Arizona. He lives in New York. Probably a variety of places.
 

YancyW

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I read it the way you read it, but it could mean civil liability, I suppose.

Baldwin shot someone in Arizona. He lives in New York. Probably a variety of places.

Clearly the parents are going to have significant exposure civilly, they won't have a fraction of what it would take to even defend those claims.
 

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If parents are neglectful then yes.

If kid has mental health issues then that changes everything. The parents can be in an impossible situation if that is the case with no real help from the state.
 

Brent in Az

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Some parents should be better at being a parent.?
The principal knew this kid was a problem child, and even had a meeting with the parents, hours before this happened.
Having a defense weapon in the house should be controlled by the parents at all times. That is the gray area of this situation.

Being a blue state, its a good bet that the prosecutors will try to make scapegoats out of the parents.

If this kid had a pattern of, erratic, or psychological behaviors, it could be another case of a problem slipping through the cracks in the system.?

I dont really know.?
 

Paul Raley

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In my opinion all gun owners should ensure their firearms are kept safe and secure from any other person that does not have the owners permission to use the firearm and that is not competent in its use , this includes ones own children , this to me is common sense and one should not need a law to ensure compliance .
Obviously gun owners should also adhere to all relevant firearm legislation where required , if not for anything else but to protect themselves from prosecution .
I personally do not believe that a 15 year old is mature enough to be allowed to be in unsupervised possession of a firearm in public .
 

Tam Dl

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I don't like Baldwin, though that is his super power, he plays A-holes. He virtually plays the Rust catastrophe part in his movie State and Maine.

His most recent claim he didn't pull the trigger is interesting. I figured it would hinge on that, given who was training on the film, but he is not exactly fitting within that narrative either.
 

Tanks

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Thoughts on the charges being brought against the parents of the Michigan school shooting this week.
In my opinion, I feel that these are warranted in this situation.
Wondering if I am in the majority on this?
Morally yes. Legally, no as MI does not have safe storage laws according to what I have read so far.
 

Tam Dl

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In my opinion all gun owners should ensure their firearms are kept safe and secure from any other person that does not have the owners permission to use the firearm and that is not competent in its use , this includes ones own children , this to me is common sense and one should not need a law to ensure compliance .
Obviously gun owners should also adhere to all relevant firearm legislation where required , if not for anything else but to protect themselves from prosecution .
I personally do not believe that a 15 year old is mature enough to be allowed to be in unsupervised possession of a firearm in public .
I agree, and in any case, that is the law in Canada. In fact, it doesn't matter where you live, and who might have access, it could be a cabin in the wilderness, you still need to be secure.

However, all this storage stuff about guns ends up being pretty naive. A lot of guys who own guns are pretty well stocked up anyway. When I was a kid I watched the show "It takes a thief" I learned to pick locks just for fun, and it comes in handy at times. Amazon sells lock picking gear and test locks. I also have welding and metal work gear, I used to have a plasma cutter. They are really cheap. Most of the keys and maybe info on combos is in a location known to kids. Harbor Freight sells a 4.5 inch grinder that would defeat most standard gun safes, and all locks for $14.99 etc...

Some kids can really BS you and could trick you. Pretend they have a new interest in gunsmithing. Think up some dodge. The Sandy Hook goblin got guns from his mother, he shot her and stole the guns. We just got through Rittenhouse, he got a friend to buy him a gun (not illegal and his actions were legal, the point being access strategies).

I mean, just how stupid do you have to be not to be able to gain access to guns in your house. Some states have/had laws saying you can't own guns within some distance of a school. But every kid who lives with guns is basically inside the wire.
 

Bob Nelson 35Whelen

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Thoughts on the charges being brought against the parents of the Michigan school shooting this week.
In my opinion, I feel that these are warranted in this situation.
Wondering if I am in the majority on this?
@Boyd Brooks
Surely the father that bought the handgun had a safe keeping responsibility. How did the son get hold of the weapon? In a case like this I THINK te parent has to be held at least partially liable.
With society the way it is today with a lot of kids not talking to the parents like they used to and cyber bullying so rampant society as a whole should be responsible as well.
From my experience the majority of kids are under more pressure than we ever were and haven't got the coping mechanisms to navigate today's society and the just don't have the resilience we had at tat age.
It is up to us as parents to teach our kids these things but it is getting increasingly harder to do this.
I don't condone the kids shooting but I try to understand it.
In the past you had a punch on with the person you had the problem with and sorted it out. Now you can't do that because it's not politically correct, so they deal with it the only way they can see. Usually suicide or deadly force.
THESE ARE MY VIES ONLY. We need to do more to help our kids in these times.
Bob
 

Bob Nelson 35Whelen

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Slippery slope. A minor takes the car without permission because the keys were left on the table and kills someone at the red light he runs .......

Would be useful to know if Michigan state law requires firearms to be kept secured - my guess is no.

That said, if this kid was truly unstable, perhaps the parents should indeed have exercised more caution.

Apparently, the school did have a conference with the parents just before the incident and the school took no action. Charging the parents will take the media eye of the school's apparent lack of action. Somehow though, four counts of involuntary manslaughter seems a bit of overreach.

Meanwhile in sunny California Baldwin can kill someone and then portray himself on national television as the victim.

Interesting times we live in.
@Red Leg
I just saw the Baldwin interview. What a load of croc shit. I didn't pull the trigger and didn't know I shot someone until the police showed me the photo of the bullet. Surely he isn't deaf and heard the gun go off and wonder WTF.
To me his statement is about as true as Bill Clinton saying I did not have set with that woman.
It's a load of bullshit to save his arse.
Bob
 

Tam Dl

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I don't buy the idea that because they did a school meeting they should have known he would shoot up the school (streamlining the argument). This falls into that category of the signal to noise ratio. How many parents get a stiff talking to from schools. Versus how many school shootings happen. Like 9/11, there were warnings, somewhere in the files there are always warnings, sifting through what is an isn't likely is key. And throughout history, they often get it wrong on the big shows.

Parents are just as likely to have a kid who is unhappy, and try to figure out what hobbies the kid likes and support them. "maybe you should take him to the range more often". "Seemed like a good idea at the time".

There are also always the cases where such a move would be insane, just saying we have too many mandates in my opinion, and not enough commons sense. And part of the latter is that bad things do happen.
 

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