Shotgun to a Double rifle? Possible?

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Good evening gents I have always been fascinated by double rifles. My first guns were doubles albeit shotguns. That got me thinking father bought me a double 28 when i was a boy. Is it possible to commission a set of rifle barrels for a shotgun? I would not wish to damage the shotgun in any was as it was my first gun and I still use it regularly.

The shotgun was made by a firm I've been unable to locate any information on. It's stamped Llyods and Lords of Birmingham England. It's a hamerless boxlock with what I'm told is a greener style cross bolt.

Would it be possible to have a set of rifle barrels built and regulated for it? If so what caliber would be reasonable for that action and whom is capable and reliable to take on such a job.

I'm unable to post pictures from home my internet connection isn't strong enough , the next time I venture to town I will post pictures.

 

[Red Leg]

Essentially no.

That said, a diminutive English 28 bore could indeed be sent to say Westley Richards in the UK and be evaluated as a candidate for a set of rifle barrels. Something in the .22 Savage Hi-power might work. Even 6.5x57R class would likely be too much for such a small action. WR would likely charge you $20K + for the work. There might be some gunsmith in the US who would claim to be able to do that sort of build, but none of them would touch a Birmingham 28 belonging to me.

 

[DrBob]

Yes... it can be done. I have a book on such conversions... will hunt is down and share title to show it was done.

 

[Red Leg]

Yes... it can be done. I have a book on such conversions... will hunt is down and share title to show it was done.

A 28 bore? That I would indeed like to see.

 

[crs]

I have shot a 28 gauge a bit, but the receiver size would dictate a rather small and low pressure cartridge.

Here is a link to a book on converting shotguns to double rifles by a gunsmith with considerable experience.
A good read for a gun nut whether you intend to ever perform or have performed such a conversion.
http://bundukipublishing.com/doublerifle.htm

Enjoy.

 

[mark-hunter]

Some makers such as CZ - Brno were producing break action guns with shotgun and rifle double barrels, or combination barrels.
But, such practice is generally up to medium caliber rifle calibers.

As mentioned, in previous posts, it is probably doable, but also very delicate, pressures in shotgun is not even closely comparable to some rifle caliber pressures, and locking mechanism will have some limits in shotgun platform it added rifle barrel set. Caution advised!

 

[CBH Australia]

Interesting,
I’m sure it’s costly no ,after what.
Either the original shotgun has monetary value or not. Either way it’s an heirloom.
What’s a cheapish double going to set you back?
My original thoughts when I read the title had me thinking that you might be putting a liner in the barrels. I doubt they could regulate that.
Is there a sub calibre guage insert that you can get for the 28 bore, just for fun.

 

[mark-hunter]

I saw an insert to 16 or 12 ga barrel belonging to my friend, caliber 22wmr, interestingly - maybe only cca 30 cm of lenght of 22 wmr insert.
Placing it in 12 ga or 16 ga, might be like having 22wmr with silencer. With that lenght it may get close to 22lr veelocities. But, I never tried. just guessing.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Thank you gentleman about the answer I was expecting, @Red Leg 22 high power is not legal for deer here could the say .30 carbine be an option? Or perhaps .38 pistol rounds ? In Nova Scotia to hunt deer you must use atleast .24 caliber, interestingly there is no minimum power requirements so even dimutive rounds such as .25-20 are considered legal.

 

[bruce moulds]

I woder how 405 win would go, subject to pressure not exceeding factory loads with a 300 gn bullet.
bruce.

 

[Standard Velocity]

Essentially no.

That said, a diminutive English 28 bore could indeed be sent to say Westley Richards in the UK and be evaluated as a candidate for a set of rifle barrels. Something in the .22 Savage Hi-power might work. Even 6.5x57R class would likely be too much for such a small action. WR would likely charge you $20K + for the work. There might be some gunsmith in the US who would claim to be able to do that sort of build, but none of them would touch a Birmingham 28 belonging to me.

Do double rifles contain pressure in the same way as double shotguns? Even when of the same design (sidelock or boxlock) are there additional mechanisms employed to hold it all together when exposed to rifle pressures?

I always assumed there were additional things holding the action closed on double rifles.

 

[Red Leg]

Do double rifles contain pressure in the same way as double shotguns? Even when of the same design (sidelock or boxlock) are there additional mechanisms employed to hold it all together when exposed to rifle pressures?

I always assumed there were additional things holding the action closed on double rifles.

The closure systems are essentially the same. Double underlugs plus a hidden fastener on most British guns, and underlugs or trigger plate with cross bolt on most German and Austrian interpretations. Over the last century there have been a number of different designs - particularly on the continent, but those are the typical solutions. However, rifle actions are usually quite heavier and more robust than those used on shotguns. A British 28 bore in particular is a dainty tiny thing. One could hardly pick a worse prospect as the basis of a double rifle.

Searcy apparently was building doubles on shotgun actions early in his career, and one would be hard pressed to find a writer who thought that was a particularly good idea then or later. Various folks pop up offering the ability to do it (the SKS action seems popular) and I am sure some were successful. But there are not a lot around which probably should say something.

It has been more common in OU’s. Browning marketed a two-barrel set for a number of years (the Continental maybe?) and FN may still produce it. Beretta did the same on the 686 action. I had one with 9.3x74R and 20 bore barrels. SxS’s are much rarer.

 

[crs]

Bruce, you are OK, no matter what others say!
Thanks for giving me an excuse to show off my .405 DR.




My .405 WCF made from a strong Simson&Co Suhl 12 gauge shotgun and made by a gunsmith experienced making such guns. For me, It is just right as it is regulated with the same 300 grain loads (2250 fps) I shoot in my 1895 .405. It also shoots 400 grain Woodies well (2050 fps), but not the same .5 MOA as the 300 grain loads. I use VV N133 to guarantee safe pressures and accuracy.

All the above questions about pressure in shotguns are answered in the book referenced earlier in this thread.

 

[Standard Velocity]

Thank you for the answer.

I know you’ve written some articles for magazines. Have you ever written for the Doublegun Journal? Is there a publication that would be appropriate for you to write a Doubles for Dummies article?

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

It can be done. I can’t find it now but there was a long thread on a project to build a 303 rifle from a 20g shotgun. It was on the **NOT**PERMITTED** forum but I can’t locate it right now.

Essentially the guy who did it cut down the shotgun barrels to the chambers, threaded them and screwed a pair of 303 Ross barrels that had been turned to the correct size and threaded into those to build the block. That’s just the basic idea but there was a ton of work involved in getting the rifle finished beyond that, regulation was a lot of work. It would be a tough home project and I doubt many smiths could do it.

But in the end he was killing deer and pig with it and took it to Africa and took a zebra there.

I’ll see if I can track it down.

 

[Red Leg]

Guys. Have any of you held a 28 bore Birmingham made SxS? The action is tiny, diminutive, petit, as in really small. They are also, generally, quite valuable in that bore. Not what I would suggest as the basis of a garage gun project.

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

Ok my post was deleted for linking another forum.

The gist is that they used a Laurona 20 gauge and barrels from 1910 303 Ross rifles to build the monobloc.

 

[crs]

All,
I agree with Red Leg on leaving the 28 ga/bore gun alone and not trying to convert it to a rifle.
Sorry if that was not clear in my earlier comment.

The only reason for mentioning the book by H Ellis Brown was to let you know that this type of conversion has been done and documented by many in the past . Also that there are some gunsmiths/gun makers that have done and still do such conversions. One of my hunting buddies has made some double shotguns and double rifles in the past for his own use and for friends, but never made it a business; calling it a hobby. He even brought my circa 1900 Damascus Parker 20 bore (for Red Leg) back to life some years ago.

From my reading, the "donor" guns are usually well made, but not collectible, guns that have been proven to be suited for the conversion to a DR. H Ellis Brown tells you how to pick one and which cartridges are and are not recommended. BTW, Ellis is a bird hunter and can really handle a double gun and DR.

 

[IvW]

28 ga and 12 ga are worlds apart..

 

[Jeffrey]

I wouldn’t butcher an heirloom British 28. BUT if I could commission a set of barrels for it in something like 25-20 or something like that it would be pretty neat. If money were no object, of course. Better still might be to commission someone to make 28 gauge inserts in 25-20 or the like.