Shorter barrel for 404 jeffery

[VTT]

After years of reading this forum and drooling over the legendary big game rifles you guys post I came across a dirt cheap 404 jeffery in Mauser 98. Had to get it.
The rifle came with a silencer(which is legal to use during hunting in Finland and it makes the shooting fun). Recoil is definately not bad shooting from standing position. With the silencer however, the rifle with 24" barrel is closer to 27" total and a bit clumsy. I hunt moose and brown bear with a baying dog and sometimes the animals are in thick bushes so I'd like a bit shorter gun.
My question is how the shorter barrel might affect with 404? I was thinking something like 20" or 20.5" for the barrel.
Current load for 400gr Peregrine VRG3 copper bullets is 80.9 grains. I believe there's room to make the load a bit stronger to make up for lost speed due shorter barrel.

 

[Philip Glass]

I am sure 20” would be fine for that caliber.

 

[IvW]

20 inches with that case capacity? Just get rid of the can and recrown....

 

[spike.t]

20 inches with that case capacity? Just get rid of the can and recrown....

And put on iron sights....and 22 inches without that thing on the end would be fine

 

[nztimb]

I am with @spike.t on this one--22 inches with iron sights would make for a good handy rifle and then work on load developement.

 

[Jack Stevens]

Sorta agree with the others.

My thoughts:

1) Barrel no shorter than 21". Silencer/suppressor optional, ... meaning your choice. Hunting in certain countries may prohibit use of the can, so have a thread protector available that can be loctited on.

2) Iron sights are a Must Have. Preferably the classic/traditional barrel-banded front sight mated to an rear aperture sight on the rear receiver - either one similar to the integral 'peep' sight which you used to see on the BRNO 602s way, way back in the day, or a side-mounted sight on the left side of the receiver, like the Williams FPs or the Old School Redfield 48s or Lyman 57s.

3) Avoid duplicating Hornady's insanity of boosting the .404 Jeff's velocity 250fps faster than the original load specs for this cartridge. It's unnecessary with modern bullets.

I have a 404J rifle with a 23" barrel. I handload the 400grn bullets to the original specs of 2100fps and felt-recoil is no worse than my .375 H&H BRNO 602 with 300grn ammo. Plus it will still kill the Big Stuff right now, all day long.

If you cut the barrel to 20"-21" for use in the close timbered areas or thick bramble bush, where the shots on game seldom exceed 50-yds, which is frequently the case when hunting the big bruins and moose in Alaska, you should have no problems.

Here's mine:

Good luck!

 

[Nhoro]

I think you are correct that the 404 has case capacity to make up for a shorter barrel. As for sights, I tried out a vortex 1-4 variable scope. On 1 power it was like a red dot, both eyes open. Then dial it up and you have magnification probably out to 200 m on plainsgame. I don't think a 404 would be useful past that range anyway, its trajectory will start to make acute shots a bit of a gamble.A 400 gr pill at 2150 fps will be good for an elephant from any reasonable angle. So your plans sound quite reasonable to me.

 

[Shootist43]

I agree with IvW. i.e. remove the "can" cut off the threads and re-crown the barrel. Both of my 404(s) have 24" barrels and I've had no trouble handling them in the bush.

 

[VTT]

Thanks everyone.
Jack: that's a beautiful gun right there!

 

[Bonefish2150]

Sorta agree with the others.

My thoughts:

1) Barrel no shorter than 21". Silencer/suppressor optional, ... meaning your choice. Hunting in certain countries may prohibit use of the can, so have a thread protector available that can be loctited on.

2) Iron sights are a Must Have. Preferably the classic/traditional barrel-banded front sight mated to an rear aperture sight on the rear receiver - either one similar to the integral 'peep' sight which you used to see on the BRNO 602s way, way back in the day, or a side-mounted sight on the left side of the receiver, like the Williams FPs or the Old School Redfield 48s or Lyman 57s.

View attachment 406703
3) Avoid duplicating Hornady's insanity of boosting the .404 Jeff's velocity 250fps faster than the original load specs for this cartridge. It's unnecessary with modern bullets.

I have a 404J rifle with a 23" barrel. I handload the 400grn bullets to the original specs of 2100fps and felt-recoil is no worse than my .375 H&H BRNO 602 with 300grn ammo. Plus it will still kill the Big Stuff right now, all day long.

If you cut the barrel to 20"-21" for use in the close timbered areas or thick bramble bush, where the shots on game seldom exceed 50-yds, which is frequently the case when hunting the big bruins and moose in Alaska, you should have no problems.

Here's mine:

View attachment 406704

Good luck!

Barrel too long. Cut three inches. It has an excellent barrel contour.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Jack, that is a proportional sized rifle. Perfect. Beautiful

 

[Jack Stevens]

Barrel too long. Cut three inches. It has an excellent barrel contour.

LOL!

Ah no, I don’t live in AK. So I’ll keep it at 23” for now.

 

[Daisy]

Thanks everyone.
Jack: that's a beautiful gun right there!

Cut my 416 to 20.5 and run supressor. I love it.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Cut it down to 20" no suppressor and it won't be fun to shoot. My 404 build on 98 Mauser has #5 barrel taper and 24" long. It is 10 lbs heavy and still wounded me the first round fired.

Though it is heavy, it is balanced perfectly just ahead of floorplate. I will take balance over lightweight any day. Fit and balance are both very important for running shots.

 

[Bonefish2150]

LOL!

Ah no, I don’t live in AK. So I’ll keep it at 23” for now.

Very good beautiful rifle properly built

 

[Ontario Hunter]

If you get rid of the can, I suggest you also change scopes and remove that goofy cheekpiece buildup thing (I suspect that unsightly booger helped get the price down). Definitely toss the rings/bases combo! That whole setup is WAY WAY too high. This is not a caliber for shooting gophers in the next zip code. Good for a hundred yards max. So find a good low power scope. I have exactly the same gun (404 Jeffery built on military Mauser 98) and added iron sights (from a 1990s Winchester Safari Express) with an aftermarket rail that is as low as Weaver standard bases, topped with Warne low QD (quick detach) rings. I put an old 3x Weaver scope on it from my elk/moose 30-06 but am on the hunt for a low power variable tactical scope, preferably one with 1" tube (to match the rings I have). Seems they're all 30mm. Not sure a 30mm scope will be low enough. You want low power scope for two reasons: it will suit your style hunting better (quicker target acquisition) and no bell on the front of scope gets it lower. You want to be tight to that gun and down on it when it goes off or it will hurt.

Wait ... does your gun still have the military safety? That would explain the high in the sky scope setup. Get rid of it. You can easily make the change to two position Buhler style wing safety for scope relief. However, they are not a good plan if you want the option of changing to iron sights. Those 2-position wing safeties when exposed without scope protection are too easily disengaged. I suggest a "deluxe" Timney trigger with trigger block safety. Anyone who is reasonably handy can install one himself but probably best to have a gunsmith do it. Or you could get a 3-position Model 70 style safety like I did. They are a bit more pricey but worthy investment in my opinion. I installed mine but you almost certainly would need a gunsmith. Should you choose to make the above changes, your gun will probably be worth a lot more than what you paid for it at resale.

How does your gun feed? This is always a concern with this build on that gun. Very tricky changing the rails and ramp.

 

[Jack Stevens]

Cut it down to 20" no suppressor and it won't be fun to shoot. My 404 build on 98 Mauser has #5 barrel taper and 24" long. It is 10 lbs heavy and still wounded me the first round fired. View attachment 574986
Though it is heavy, it is balanced perfectly just ahead of floorplate. I will take balance over lightweight any day. Fit and balance are both very important for running shots.

Your first mistake was scoping it. These .400-class DGRs are meant for close range work with iron sights. If you can’t see the water buff at 50-yds, you’re Elmer Fudd and Lasik surgery is clearly indicated.

Your second mistake was pulling the trigger - off a bench set-up. Nobody hunts or shoots dangerous game off a bench.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Your first mistake was scoping it. These .400-class DGRs are meant for close range work with iron sights. If you can’t see the water buff at 50-yds, you’re Elmer Fudd and Lasik surgery is clearly indicated.

Your second mistake was pulling the trigger - off a bench set-up. Nobody hunts or shoots dangerous game off a bench.

Read what he wrote. He didn't put the scope on it, he bought it that way. He is hunting moose over dogs in Finland, not dangerous game. I sight my 404 off the bench ... carefully. I have enough hunting experience (60 years) to have no need of wasting very expensive and scarce ammo playing with sticks at the range. Shooting off sticks is not rocket science anyway. Far from it. I had never even seen them before my first trip to Africa in 2019. No trouble killing four animals in four shots before noon of the first day ... on a 167K acre farm.

 

[JBRC]

You will loose about 100 fps in velocity.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I see that your gun has a tactical rings setup but not a tactical scope. Exactly the opposite of what you need. Weird setup. Toss the tactical rings/base! I would get rid of the rail too. Seems high. Find a set of conventional bases. Then get some rings. Once you get rid of that crap and the cheek hump, you'll probably need a set of conventional low rings. If you can try them on for fit, start with medium height rings and work down from there. As I said above, your style of hunting is best served with a good tactical style scope (e.g. 1x5 variable) but NOT tactical rings/base).