SCI Adopts Policy On Captive Bred Lions

[cpr0312]

Below is copied from an email I just received..... I would ask how CBL is different than "other estate hunting"?



_________________________________________
SCI Adopts Policy On Captive Bred Lions
Considering that the practice of the captive breeding of lions for the purpose of hunting has doubtful value to the conservation of lions in the wild, and considering that such hunting is not consistent with SCI's criteria for estate hunting, the SCI Board has adopted the following policy:

• SCI opposes the hunting of African lions bred in captivity.
• This policy takes effect on February 4, 2018 and applies to hunts taking place after adoption of this policy and to any Record Book entry related to such hunts.
• SCI will not accept advertising from any operator for any such hunts, nor will SCI allow operators to sell hunts for lions bred in captivity at the SCI Annual Hunters' Convention.

 

[MikeDeltaFoxtrot]

I am interested in SCI's policy reasons behind this decision. I don't really have any interest in a captive bred lion hunt, but why would SCI condemn it? It does seem like there should be an asterisk in the record book if the lion was captive bred, however.

 

[Red Leg]

You are correct, it is no different from any other "put and take" shooting. Clearly the tollerence level is much higher for animals such as the genetically "improved" whitetail released annually on some high-fence pastures. I think there is a huge difference where the "estates" are large enough to have self-sustaining populations in which the animals normal environment is not curtailed. My sense is that both SCI and DSC see a big difference as well.

 

[rinehart0050]

I just saw this too.

Agree with you Reedy. Not sure what differences in other estate hunts might be. Are they going to stop endorsing NZ outfitters that bring in trophy stags for clients that want 500+/600+ sci scores?

 

[Therack]

Here we go again with the double standard. What about the captive bred bird hunts that are sold on their fundraising auctions? What about the captive bred beef that was served at their banquet last night? If you condemn one type of captive bred hunting you are condemning them all. Goodbye to the SCI membership.

 

[cpr0312]

Also of interest that they announced this decision during the current 2018 show while some of these outfitters are exhibiting at said show!!

 

[MikeDeltaFoxtrot]

Also of interest that they announced this decision during the current 2018 show while some of these outfitters are exhibiting at said show!!

I suspect that announcing it during the convention also gets them maximum media attention. I am sure that is not an accident.

 

[Royal27]

It definitely would have been nice if they had defined what "estate hunting" they are ok with. how big the property needs to be, how long the animal needs to be there, amount of human inreaction involved, etc... My guess though is they are being political and remaining vague on purpose.

Also of interest that they announced this decision during the current 2018 show while some of these outfitters are exhibiting at said show!!

Had to make sure the exhibitor checks cleared first.

I suspect that announcing it during the convention also gets them maximum media attention. I am sure that is not an accident.

Agree

 

[Hank2211]

You can only 'estate' hunt animals which the public doesn't care about. So the policy must effectively be based on polling results, or something similar.

I think they'd put much of Texas hunting out of business if they were serious about this policy.

 

[cpr0312]

You can only 'estate' hunt animals which the public doesn't care about. So the policy must effectively be based on polling results, or something similar.

I think they'd put much of Texas hunting out of business if they were serious about this policy.

No doubt!

 

[cpr0312]

It definitely would have been nice if they had defined what "estate hunting" they are ok with. how big the property needs to be, how long the animal needs to be there, amount of human inreaction involved, etc... My guess though is they are being political and remaining vague on purpose.



Had to make sure the exhibitor checks cleared first.



Agree

Bingo on all three Royal!

 

[rinehart0050]

You can only 'estate' hunt animals which the public doesn't care about. So the policy must effectively be based on polling results, or something similar.

I think they'd put much of Texas hunting out of business if they were serious about this policy.

Spot on.

This is just SCI jumping on the bandwagon.

Had to make sure the exhibitor checks cleared first.

I agree.

My question is where does it stop? Are all PHASA members no longer welcome in SCI/DSC/etc? When does SCI plan to start placing similar restrictions on US outfitters?

I'm glad I hunted my lion when I did.

 

[Royal27]

My question is where does it stop? Are all PHASA members no longer welcome in SCI/DSC/etc?

Read the bullet points again - it appears that SCI will still happily take money from the outfitters, they just can't be in the record book or advertised.

Edit: I assume DSC will still take outfitter money as well, even if they continue to be involved.

• SCI opposes the hunting of African lions bred in captivity.

• This policy takes effect on February 4, 2018 and applies to hunts taking place after adoption of this policy and to any Record Book entry related to such hunts.

• SCI will not accept advertising from any operator for any such hunts, nor will SCI allow operators to sell hunts for lions bred in captivity at the SCI Annual Hunters' Convention.

 

[sierraone]

Read the bullet points again - it appears that SCI will still happily take money from the outfitters, they just can't be in the record book or advertised.

Royal, why is this significantly different than when you and I have talked in the past, "you can still hunt the animal, you just can't bring it home."

 

[Royal27]

Royal, why is this significantly different than when you and I have talked in the past, "you can still hunt the animal, you just can't bring it home."

It isn't.

I'm just stating the facts as I see them, not giving my opinion on what I'd personally do.

Edit: Agree with Phil's post below in general (although need to know the "estate hunting" parameters to truly understand the level of hypocrisy, but its certainly there. Deer or lion dropped off yesterday - same thing to me). "It isn't" refers to if you want to hunt it, hunt it, regardless of if its banned from importation or the record book).

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Royal, why is this significantly different than when you and I have talked in the past, "you can still hunt the animal, you just can't bring it home."

It's different because this isn't about an import ban. This is an attempt to exclude outfitters in South Africa who offer CBL hunting from the DSC and SCI conventions. Easily the two largest marketing venues.

While doing so and also allowing numerous captive bred deer and elk hunting outfits to continue to exhibit here at the conventions. The hypocrisy would impress even the lowest of politicians.

A few minutes ago I just arrived at the booth here in Vegas. On basically a straight line to the booth I walked by several whitetail outfits with their monster non-typical bucks on display.

Want an elk over 400", not a problem just pull out your checkbook. How exactly are these elk and deer contributing to conservation?

 

[cpr0312]

It's different because this isn't about an import ban. This is an attempt to exclude outfitters in South Africa who offer CBL hunting from the DSC and SCI conventions. Easily the two largest marketing venues.

While doing so and also allowing numerous captive bred deer and elk hunting outfits to continue to exhibit here at the conventions. The hypocrisy would impress even the lowest of politicians.

Agreed 100%

 

[MAdcox]

I can’t get past the hypocrisy here.
I researched my outfitter because I didn’t want to hunt put and take animals. However, while I was in South Africa I drove past numerous farms with breeding pens full of Sable, Roan, Buffalo, Black Impala, and so on and so on. At DSC this January I looked at hunt brochures for Sable, Gemsbok, and Bongo all on Texas ranch’s.
This is for some hunters and not for others, but the selective outrage by the organizations is hard to take. To me it falls in line with the antis using certain animals to get PR points.

 

[sierraone]

It's different because this isn't about an import ban. This is an attempt to exclude outfitters in South Africa who offer CBL hunting from the DSC and SCI conventions. Easily the two largest marketing venues.

While doing so and also allowing numerous captive bred deer and elk hunting outfits to continue to exhibit here at the conventions. The hypocrisy would impress even the lowest of politicians.

A few minutes ago I just arrived at the booth here in Vegas. On basically a straight line to the booth I walked by several whitetail outfits with their monster non-typical bucks on display.

Want an elk over 400", not a problem just pull out your checkbook. How exactly are these elk and deer contributing to conservation?

Phil, give me a guess....A South African outfitter sells 15 captive bred lion hunts in one year. How many of those are bought at DSC and SCI?

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Phil, give me a guess....A South African outfitter sells 15 captive bred lion hunts in one year. How many of those are bought at DSC and SCI?

I really don't know if your number of 15 is correct. If I had to guess I'd say it was low, but that's just a guess. As to how many are sold at DSC/SCI, I would have to say many of the total. Of those sold not specifically at the convention, I would guess again that in many of these cases initial contact was made at the conventions with the client.

But I'm not sure what your question has to do with the bigger picture of DSC/SCI caving in to the politics. As far as I'm concerned this is a win for the anti's. What will be next?