Scaling bullet performance

[fourfive8]

I hear ya about penetration. BTW penetration is a derivative of: resistance vs momentum. There are times when the highest priority might be greatest penetration. Of course there are times when a deep penetrating, controlled expanding is called for. This Raptor design seems to fit in that category.

I was somewhat surprised by the depth of penetration of the Raptor bullet I tested. After some thought about the results they seem to make sense though- the base shank that continues on after initial petal separation has a frontal area right at caliber diameter compared to a mushroom (like a Swift A Frame) or expanded petal config (like a Barnes TSX), each of which have much great cross section area thus much greater resistance to penetration. Also, this 420 gr 458 design retains 80% of original weight after petal separation. I assume the heavier versions (either 450 or 470 gr) of the 458 Raptor would have the same sized hollow point therefore the percentage of retained weight would be even greater than 80%.

For the most reliable straight line and deepest penetration, I would consider one of these among other similar bullets: the GS FP solid, the Woodleigh Hydrostatically Stabilized Solid, the North Fork Flat Point Solid and the CEB Safari Flat Point Solid. In addition to frontal cross section area, straight line and stabilized penetration both have a lot to do with depth of penetration.

Here's an example of a bullet used specifically for maximum penetration. A 450 gr 458 GS Flat Point Solid from 458 Express recovered from a bull elephant. The shot was a high angle "WDM Bell type" into the skull from the rear.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Yes sir, you dwell on these things it would seem as much as I do. It is my belief that sectional density is incorrectly thought of as a static parameter. It is only static up until the bullet impacts the animal. Once expansion and weight loss start to occur due to that impact, sectional density is very dynamic.

In the case of the CEB Raptor, the reduction in sectional density happens when the blades shear off and that is virtually instantaneous and there's virtually no effect from an expanding diameter. But because the weight retained is roughly 80%, the final sectional density is still quite good.

In the North Forks and A-Frames, the reduction in sectional density (or increase in resistance) is virtually entirely due to diameter expansion due to the mushroom as the weight loss is negligible.

The TSX is a bit trickier as the expansion creates an X pattern and so it's effect on sectional density is somewhat less than a mushroom expansion. And the X sometimes folds over reducing the diameter increase.

I do agree with your comparsion of the CEB to the Partition. The biggest difference is the Partition will lose a bit more weight and with that also momentum.

 

[fourfive8]

Yes sir, you dwell on these things it would seem as much as I do. It is my belief that sectional density is incorrectly thought of as a static parameter. It is only static up until the bullet impacts the animal. Once expansion and weight loss start to occur due to that impact, sectional density is very dynamic.

In the case of the CEB Raptor, the reduction in sectional density happens when the blades shear off and that is virtually instantaneous and there's virtually no effect from an expanding diameter. But because the weight retained is roughly 80%, the final sectional density is still quite good.

In the North Forks and A-Frames, the reduction in sectional density (or increase in resistance) is virtually entirely due to diameter expansion due to the mushroom as the weight loss is negligible.

The TSX is a bit trickier as the expansion creates an X pattern and so it's effect on sectional density is somewhat less than a mushroom expansion. And the X sometimes folds over reducing the diameter increase.

I do agree with your comparsion of the CEB to the Partition. The biggest difference is the Partition will lose a bit more weight and with that also momentum.

Well said and couldn't agree more!

 

[PaulT]

I do know this, @PaulT, when he was guiding for those Australian buff, saw a lot of bulls taken with the CEB Raptors and couldn't speak more highly of their performance

Having had the various exposure to the Raptors that I have fortunate to have, under varying and sometimes questionable circumstances, I have supreme confidence in the Raptors for use on buffalo in ANY situation.

Somewhere in the forums is a bull pictured that I took with a .500 NE loaded with the 475gn Raptor at 2400fps.
My second barrel hit the bull just below and to the right of his left eye at something around 130yds.
The Raptor travelled through the skull, through the neck and top of the chest, through the top of the stomach, broke the opposing back hip bone AND EXITED after going through about 8' of buffalo.

I leave again for buffalo country in one week from now.

No prizes for guessing what my buffalo rifle is loaded with !

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I leave again for buffalo country in one week from now.

For fun or business?

 

[Shawn.54]

I have used or should I say my son has used a 22-250 with 40gr GS Custom bullet on white tail deer for 3 kills all over 150 yards. I realize that white tail are not tough thick skinned animals but a 40gr bullet is not what I would consider a tough bullet but what I saw for in the deer was exactly what the above diagram above showed petals coming off and the base penatration in a straight line with a 11/4-11/2 diameter wound chanel with the bullet traveling through approximately 23" of deer.
The GS Custom bullets travel to the target at high speed then turn in to flat faced solids which do very well at penatration if the distance is longer they open to a mushroom. The CEB works the same way I would assume. This gives you a little larger performance envelope than most bullets I would love to tell you how much weight the little 40gr retained but the deer was not thick enough to stop it in all 3 attempts.
Shawn

 

[Shawn.54]

I think that we sometimes put to much emphasis on a bullet making a high weight retention mushroom. To the point that penatration is suffering.
Our deer group was really successful this year and we harvested quite a few deer the thing I noticed was the lack of exit holes. Yes we did not lose a wounded deer but when a 30-06,270,and 7mm-08 are not going through a deer at ranges under 100 yards it makes me wonder why. Some of these loads are factory others hand loaded. One was total bullet break up but 3 of them the bullets mushroomed so much that they opened up like parachute and that seems to have slowed them down fast.
We load solids for deep penatration on DG and we know that flat point solids penatrat very deep and do a lot of damage without expansion. We also know that the big flat nose loses speed and energy fast.
A few companies have turned flat nosed bullets into spear point that shed a little weight on impact then keep on going as a flat point solid.
I'm not saying that bullets that stay in game don't work they do I just like exit wounds it makes me a better tracker.
Shawn

 

[PaulT]

For fun or business?

Fun

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Fun

Damn, was hoping you got back in. Regardless, have a great trip!

 

[colorado]

Well as time passes I seem to grow more and more "old school". My two goto rifle/rounds are my 50 year old BDL in 270 shooting 150g Partitions at 3000 fps (chrono'd many times). It has always killed elk, deer and black bear like a bolt of lighning hit them at ranges from 15 yards to 400 plus yards. I've also recently loaded my 500 Jeffery down to just above 500 NE levels, shooting 570g A-Frames at 2200 fps. It takes just a little bit of edge off of the recoil. My sons also have a 375 H&H and 416 Rem, but we shoot factory Remington 300g A-Frames and 400g A-Frames respectively through those. All seem to work just fine.