RMR - What MOA Dot?

Discussion in 'Hunting Equipment, Gear & Optics' started by tarbe, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. tarbe

    tarbe AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    3,646
    Video/Photo:
    83
    Likes Received:
    5,385
    Location:
    Houston, TX and Romance, MO
    Member of:
    NRA Life, Handloaders Anonymous
    Hunted:
    USA, South Africa, Zimbabwe
    Ok....I'm 60 this year.

    My eyes suck. They always have. They are getting worse.

    The doc is having trouble making my prescription such that I can focus on the front sight of my 1911.

    Not good!

    I want to hunt buffalo in the next two years. I want to shoot one at 20 yards with iron sights.

    Not sure that is a great plan anymore, given my ocular trajectory.

    So...if a guy were to put an RMR on a rifle to use for Buffalo at short (less than 50 yards) range...what MOA dot would you suggest?

    Looking for opinions backed up with some experience/rationale.

    Thanks guys!


    Tim
     
    CAustin likes this.

  2. CAustin

    CAustin AH ENABLER BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    13,163
    Video/Photo:
    216
    Likes Received:
    9,418
    Member of:
    Courtney Hunting Club, NRA Life Member, SCI Kansas City Chapter
    Hunted:
    South Africa, KwaZulu Natal, Kalahari, Northwest, Limpopo, Gauteng, APNR Kruger Area. USA Georgia, South Carolina, Arkansas, New Mexico, North Carolina and Texas
    If you are going to use the Ruger 1 in 450/400 the iron sights are going to be fine at 50. Failing that I would put a Luepold VX6 on it with the CDS made for the bullet you intend to use. Get in front of the big beast and let it rip!
     

  3. V.Veritas

    V.Veritas AH Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2017
    Messages:
    74
    Video/Photo:
    1
    Likes Received:
    60
    Hunted:
    Canada, Namibia, South Africa
    I agree 100% with CAustin.

    To provide you with an educated opinion, I have just compared my Aimpoint 9000L 2 MOA with a Leupold VX-6 1-6x24. Eyeballing the red dots I would say the VX-6 has a 2,5 or 3 MOA dot. The 1-6 zoom brings additional versatility. Also it has wider field of view. Lower cost. In case of electronics failure, you are still left with the reticle (German No. 4 highly recommended). Glass is very good and you get better low light / shadows aiming capabilities.

    Aimpoint has unlimited eye relief. Fantastic as a backup aiming solution if it's already set in QD rings. None of the RMR or Aimpoints have an electronic failure backup solution nor low light amplification capabilities.
     

  4. Hogpatrol

    Hogpatrol AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2013
    Messages:
    4,152
    Video/Photo:
    50
    Likes Received:
    7,940
    Location:
    Delaware, USA
    Member of:
    Atglen Sportsmen's Club, NRA ,SCCFSA
    Hunted:
    RSA, DE, NJ, PA, KS, TX
    Cataract issues? Before I had mine removed and replaced with the lenses, the red dot in my scopes looked like a blurry star, not conducive to easy pickup in a hunting situation.
     

  5. Mekaniks

    Mekaniks GOLD SUPPORTER AH Elite

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Messages:
    1,422
    Video/Photo:
    63
    Likes Received:
    2,272
    Location:
    Seward, Alaska
    Member of:
    SCI, RMEF
    Hunted:
    AK, WY, WA, ID, FL, SD, TX, HI, South Africa- Northwest Province
    I reall like the 1/2 minute Leupold Dot reticle in my 3-9. It's small enough that it doesn't cover up the target but large enough that I can find it easily in the scope.
    And I am having similar eye issues. I went to the range the other day to shoot a rifle that has a fine cross reticle that I had not shot in a couple years. I spent the first 10 minutes adjusting the eye relief just so I could focus the reticle. Same thing with an old 30-30 with open sights that I used to shoot as a kid. No way I can see the front blade site any more. I am probebly going to change it the new style front blade with a white dot.
    I guess that's just what happens when we get old.....
     
    ve7poi likes this.

  6. Royal27

    Royal27 AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    8,805
    Video/Photo:
    83
    Likes Received:
    10,792
    Member of:
    DSC, NRA, SCI
    Hunted:
    USA - TX, CO, GA, ID. Africa - Zimbabwe and South Africa (Limpopo and EC)
    So for an RMR and your issue and use bigger is better.
    1. Quicker to acquire
    2. Easier to see
    3. Who cares what it covers up at 100+ yards?

    I haven't checked in a while, but I think they make something in th 6-8 MOA range?
     

  7. Royal27

    Royal27 AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    8,805
    Video/Photo:
    83
    Likes Received:
    10,792
    Member of:
    DSC, NRA, SCI
    Hunted:
    USA - TX, CO, GA, ID. Africa - Zimbabwe and South Africa (Limpopo and EC)
    Just did a quick look and Trijicon RMR actually goes up to 13 MOA. I don't know if you will need to go that big, but nice to know it is there.
     

  8. tarbe

    tarbe AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    3,646
    Video/Photo:
    83
    Likes Received:
    5,385
    Location:
    Houston, TX and Romance, MO
    Member of:
    NRA Life, Handloaders Anonymous
    Hunted:
    USA, South Africa, Zimbabwe
    Well, I was thinking 6-8.

    So, we're either both on it, or clueless.

    I was hoping a couple of folks who've hunted buff with RMR would chime in...even if they end up saying just get a scope!

    For some reason, I really don't want to go magnified optics. Maybe it's something to do with a 115 year old cartridge in a falling block? Maybe that it's Buffalo and I want to get close enough that I don't negate all the Buffalo's tools?

    This could be controversial for several reasons, and I know it is dangerous just driving to work in Houston traffic every day...but I simply don't want to shoot a buffalo from 100 yards away. I want to get close. As close as the Pro in charge is ok with.

    Of course, if I took all this to the extreme, I'd have to use Cordite and period bullets. Or a spear.

    Not going to do that! A man's gotta know his limitations.

    I am planning ahead in case my eyes get to the point prior to this hunt that I cannot make the irons work.
     

  9. tarbe

    tarbe AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    3,646
    Video/Photo:
    83
    Likes Received:
    5,385
    Location:
    Houston, TX and Romance, MO
    Member of:
    NRA Life, Handloaders Anonymous
    Hunted:
    USA, South Africa, Zimbabwe
    Oh, and a practical reason I don't want a traditional scope...it will make fast reloading of the No 1 more difficult with that ocular over the block & breach.
     

  10. Royal27

    Royal27 AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    8,805
    Video/Photo:
    83
    Likes Received:
    10,792
    Member of:
    DSC, NRA, SCI
    Hunted:
    USA - TX, CO, GA, ID. Africa - Zimbabwe and South Africa (Limpopo and EC)
    Somewhere on AH this has been discussed and at least one PH gave his opinion.... I will try and search for it later when I have a few....

    Seems like maybe it was @JWK Safaris even?
     

  11. edward

    edward GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,214
    Video/Photo:
    241
    Likes Received:
    2,346
    Member of:
    safari club,nra,d.s.c.
    Hunted:
    south africa and zimbabwe.alaska and several lower 48 states.
    at 76 in 2014 i took my hippo,sable and cape buff with my double in 9.3x74r at about 60 or so yards with an trijicon srs1 red dot size 1 and 3/4 moa.no problem.had to do it as i can no longer shoot open sights anymore without my computer glasses on,which is impossible when hunting as i am uncomfortable walking with them on.
     
    Royal27 likes this.

  12. The Engineer

    The Engineer AH Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2015
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    66
    Location:
    Texas
    Member of:
    SCI, DSC
    In my seventies I also cannot effectively use iron sights. On my Heym 470 I have a RMR RM07 (battery powered) with a 6.50 MOA red dot and it worked perfectly on cape buffalo and has the advantage of an easily adjustable brightness. I had considered an RMR RM01 which has a 3.25 MOA red dot but for dangerous game I was willing to give up some potential precision to enhance speed. However, I would not hesitate to use th 6.50 MOA dot for a shot out to at least 100 yards.

    Being a pants and suspenders type I also take a pre-sighted in RMR RM04 Dual Illumination (fiber optics and tritium powered) 7.0 MOA Amber dot sight with me. This is in case of a damaged sight on a very expensive hunt and does not require a battery to function.
     

  13. Ridgewalker

    Ridgewalker AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2016
    Messages:
    4,828
    Video/Photo:
    194
    Likes Received:
    4,555
    Location:
    Colorado
    Hunted:
    South Africa: Limpopo, Northwest; USA: Ak, Mt, Wy, Co, Ne, Ks, Nv, NM, Tx
    Early September I shot a buffalo at maybe 30 yards using my 375 with a Leupold VX-6 1-6x set on 2x. Worked perfect for my 70 year old eyes.
    As you, I no longer can see open sights well enough to use for hunting. I have some red dots on my S&W revolver, a 22lr barrel on my Contender barrel, a 22lr rifle, and an AR as backup sight. IMO a proper cheekweld is even more critical with a red dot sight than a scope. Red dots are OK to about 100 yds, but I don't think they are good for much more.
    Best of luck in finding what you're looking for!
     

  14. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    4,493
    Video/Photo:
    22
    Likes Received:
    3,553
    Location:
    Grosse Ile, Michigan
    Member of:
    NRA
    Hunted:
    Michigan, Texas, Missouri, Limpopo Province South Africa
    An 8" dot is only going to sub-tend .4" at twenty yards. That is approximately one bullet diameter if my math is correct. I use an Ultra Dot on my competition guns the norm is a 2 minute dot but models with the options of 2,4,6 & 8 MOA are available. Our targets range from 50' indoors to 50 yds. outdoors. Going the route of a dot of any size on a dangerous game rifle seems problematic to me. The fit of the rifle would have to be such that it resulted a perfect mounting / alignment every single time you shouldered it. You won't have time to adjust the rifle if facing a charging buff.

    This might be off the wall but what about having a red or green front sight installed. I had a green front sight put on my Marlin 336 in 35 Win. That helped out a lot. I chose green because it is better in low light conditions like dawn or dusk. Red might be better for mid-day.
     
    Ridgewalker likes this.

  15. tarbe

    tarbe AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    3,646
    Video/Photo:
    83
    Likes Received:
    5,385
    Location:
    Houston, TX and Romance, MO
    Member of:
    NRA Life, Handloaders Anonymous
    Hunted:
    USA, South Africa, Zimbabwe
    8" x 0.2 = 1.6".

    I have heard good things about the colored sights and may need to check them out. I just have no personal experience with them at this point.

    I am pretty severely red green deficient
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017

  16. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    4,493
    Video/Photo:
    22
    Likes Received:
    3,553
    Location:
    Grosse Ile, Michigan
    Member of:
    NRA
    Hunted:
    Michigan, Texas, Missouri, Limpopo Province South Africa
    You're correct 1.6" What size RMR does Uncle Sam provide for their combat troops? Their Close Quarter Battle sights should be similar to your needs. Just a question, if you cannot distinguish red / green colors can you see a red or green RMR?
     

  17. tarbe

    tarbe AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    3,646
    Video/Photo:
    83
    Likes Received:
    5,385
    Location:
    Houston, TX and Romance, MO
    Member of:
    NRA Life, Handloaders Anonymous
    Hunted:
    USA, South Africa, Zimbabwe
    Red is duller to me than it should be, and trying to distinguish small spots of red (like blood) amongst green or brown is VERY difficult if not sometimes impossible.

    I can blood trail in snow!

    Not sure what the DOD is issuing now. When I was in, the Marine Infantry was still using flintlocks. ;)

    If I went this route, I doubt I would use anything smaller than 3moa. Just a swag.
     

  18. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    4,493
    Video/Photo:
    22
    Likes Received:
    3,553
    Location:
    Grosse Ile, Michigan
    Member of:
    NRA
    Hunted:
    Michigan, Texas, Missouri, Limpopo Province South Africa
    Another question would be, can an RMR take the "beating" it's going to get from a DG rifle?
     

  19. tarbe

    tarbe AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    3,646
    Video/Photo:
    83
    Likes Received:
    5,385
    Location:
    Houston, TX and Romance, MO
    Member of:
    NRA Life, Handloaders Anonymous
    Hunted:
    USA, South Africa, Zimbabwe
    Lots of guys run Doktor and Trijicon on big doubles.

    The first R in RMR is for ruggedized...and they are.
     
    ve7poi likes this.

  20. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    4,493
    Video/Photo:
    22
    Likes Received:
    3,553
    Location:
    Grosse Ile, Michigan
    Member of:
    NRA
    Hunted:
    Michigan, Texas, Missouri, Limpopo Province South Africa
    I called Trijicon's tech support just a few moments ago. They whole heartedly backed the use of their RMR on a DG rifle. One of their suggestions was to contact a company called "Amerigun USA" amerigunusa.com for custom mounts. Their other suggestion was to get a unit that has the green triangle rather than a red dot for this application. BTW Trijicon's Main Office and plant is about 30 miles from me.
     
    ve7poi and tarbe like this.

Share This Page

 
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice