RMR or SRO on Heym DR

[LHPF565]

Looking for recommendations on types and sizes of RMR/SRO optic for a heym 88B DR. JJ is putting the mount on it.

I currently use a Ruger No 1 375 with a Burris Fast Fire 2. 3MOA Dot. It’s amazingly for target acquisition but the DR is a bit bigger/wider and wondering what others have found that works successfully. Would 1MOA dot be two small?
I just never mastered using the blades all that well on a rifle for fast acquisition and I love the RMR/SRO’s for that reason.

 

[JD Noblin]

I love using a red dot on my Heym 89B 500NE. I first used an RMR 3.25MOA dot but found that size dot too big (for my taste anyway) for targets past 40 yards. I swapped to the SRO as it has a larger viewing window and went with the 2.5MOA dot....love it!

 

[LHPF565]

Appreciate the feedback. I feel like Hemingway himself would have used an RMR had they existed then lol

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Thread 'Red Dot & RMR Sights For Dangerous Game Rifles'

Feb 5, 2023

Red Dot and RMR Sights for Dangerous Game Rifles

Above photos are Trijocon SRO on Heym 88B

I have been contributing information concerning Red Dot and RMR Sights for Dangerous Game Rifles on a couple of other threads that some AH members may have missed. I figure that this information warrants its own thread, so here you go!

Warning, this isn’t an article about every sight available. I am not a professional writer, as evident my often lack of editing! Nor do any manufacturers send me stuff to use so that I will give them free advertising. Rather, this is...

• Mark A Ouellette
• Replies: 111
• Forum: Articles

• 

The link above is for an article on this subject.
Short answer from me is SRO for large acquisition window with a 1 MOA dot.

If however you shoot a 500 NE at a maximum range of 50 yards, a larger dot would be more functional.

If one has any astigmatism the dot will probably flare into something bigger than 1 MOA. If a larger dot is required on certain days, just increase the intensity. The dot will grow in size!

The only time any of my three SROs have a true 1 MOA dot is at dusk. With any more light I have to increase intensity which enlarges the dot.

With a 1 MOA SRO I have shot 4" groups with both barrels, off sticks at 100 yards with my trusty Heym 88B in 458 Win.

 

[reinwood]

Leica Tempus - without 1 msec hesitation.

 

[Inline6]

RMR is 5x the ruggedness of the SRO. The SRO does have a bigger screen. If your rifle were dropped on to the optic RMR would win.

Not sure if that helps you.

 

[Nevada Smith]

Regarding the RMR: keep in mind Trijicon also makes the RMR HD (Heavy Duty) in two models (1 or 3.25 MOA red dot). Larger window and "A new reticle allows you to switch between a complex reticle or single crisp dot, both of which include a new super bright setting."

 

[deewayne2003]

I followed @Mark A Ouellette advise and put a 1moa RMR on my .470 and couldn't be happier with it.

 

[cajunchefray]

Appreciate the feedback. I feel like Hemingway himself would have used an RMR had they existed then lol

I agree! And probably Frederick Courtney Selous.

 

[Nevada Smith]

Leica Tempus - without 1 msec hesitation.

The Tempus 2 is the latest model.

Anyway, good to know as I was unaware Leica made this.

 

[Rare Breed]

Looking for recommendations on types and sizes of RMR/SRO optic for a heym 88B DR. JJ is putting the mount on it.

I currently use a Ruger No 1 375 with a Burris Fast Fire 2. 3MOA Dot. It’s amazingly for target acquisition but the DR is a bit bigger/wider and wondering what others have found that works successfully. Would 1MOA dot be two small?
I just never mastered using the blades all that well on a rifle for fast acquisition and I love the RMR/SRO’s for that reason.

Please look up @Mark A Ouellette excellent review to answer your question. He has so much experience and guidance answering your question plus he is an awesome person!

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

RMR is 5x the ruggedness of the SRO. The SRO does have a bigger screen. If your rifle were dropped on to the optic RMR would win.

Not sure if that helps you.

Thanks for the information. Could you please provide your source for an RMR being five times more rugged than an SRO? Were these reflex sites tested to MILSTD 810 for shock? I'd like see the test parameters and data from this controlled test.

The RMR design (shape) appears to provide more structural integrity. No doubt it will withstand more shock than an SRO. But how much more?

Note: I love my Nightforce 1-4x NSX scopes for being bulletproof. They are compact and don't weigh much more than other premium brands. For more magnification on hunting rifles, I use Leupolds. They are lighter and more than rugged enough for my hunts.

 

[cajunchefray]

Thanks for the information. Could you please provide your source for an RMR being five times more rugged than an SRO? Were these reflex sites tested to MILSTD 810 for shock? I'd like see the test parameters and data from this controlled test.

The RMR design (shape) appears to provide more structural integrity. No doubt it will withstand more shock than an SRO. But how much more?

Note: I love my Nightforce 1-4x NSX scopes for being bulletproof. They are compact and don't weigh much more than other premium brands. For more magnification on hunting rifles, I use Leupolds. They are lighter and more than rugged enough for my hunts.

@MarkAoullette, am interested in the test protocol and results as well.

The Trijicon RMR has functioned very well for me.

 

[cajunchefray]

@MarkAoullette, am interested in the test protocol and results as well.

The Trijicon RMR has functioned very well for me.

Mark A Ouellette. Poor typing.

 

[AimSmall]

I'm a fan of the rmr. Can't comment on the sro.

 

[Inline6]

Thanks for the information. Could you please provide your source for an RMR being five times more rugged than an SRO? Were these reflex sites tested to MILSTD 810 for shock? I'd like see the test parameters and data from this controlled test.

The RMR design (shape) appears to provide more structural integrity. No doubt it will withstand more shock than an SRO. But how much more?

Note: I love my Nightforce 1-4x NSX scopes for being bulletproof. They are compact and don't weigh much more than other premium brands. For more magnification on hunting rifles, I use Leupolds. They are lighter and more than rugged enough for my hunts.

I'll look for the video. A gentlemen was testing them on a pistol. He would drop it from shoulder hight onto the rds. RMR took 5 drops on concrete. The coating suffered other than that nothing else was hurt.

When the SRO was dropped, the glass broke on the first drop. It is believed the round shape of the unit put more stress on the glass unlike the square body.

I say 5X due to the amount of drop test the RMR survived vs the SRO. Maybe that is an incorrect way of looking at things. I'm sure the RMR would live past 10 drops and the SRO might not make any.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

I'll look for the video. A gentlemen was testing them on a pistol. He would drop it from shoulder hight onto the rds. RMR took 5 drops on concrete. The coating suffered other than that nothing else was hurt.

When the SRO was dropped, the glass broke on the first drop. It is believed the round shape of the unit put more stress on the glass unlike the square body.

I say 5X due to the amount of drop test the RMR survived vs the SRO. Maybe that is an incorrect way of looking at things. I'm sure the RMR would live past 10 drops and the SRO might not make any.

@Inline6 , thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Even though the videos below show an operational rather than a controlled and repeatable (laboratory/developmental) test, the results clearly show the RMR Type II is much more durable (rugged) for shock than the larger screen SRO.

Is an SRO tough enough for a African hunting double rifle? I think so but each person must decide for themselves.

The first video below uses a "new and improved" Trijicon Type II RMR shooting 20,000 rounds.
The shooter is an absolute ape man trying to destroy the RMR. Ape man states that their's is NOT a scientific test in the SRO test video below.
The results provide one data point which is in fact a very good one!
At 5:23 minutes the weapon with RMR is dropped repeated times but...
- The angle of impact varies with each drop.
- What is the weight of the weapon? Does it have a full magazine? Is the weight the same for each drop.
Results include:
- First to last round the RMR retained its zero
- The glass/screen did not crack
- Video mentions extreme heat and cold cycle but provides no test parameters of this.

While not a controlled, repeatable, and quantifiable test;
The results of this operational test clearly show the Type II RMR is a very tough sight!

The Trijicon website states:
"The Trijicon RMR® HD is an innovative red dot pistol optic specifically designed for the evolving needs of Law Enforcement and the Military."
The RMR® HD is a newer and presumably improved model than the Type II RMR.

Next video's subject is the Trijicon SRO. Same ape man trying to destroy an SRO.
Video repeatedly states the SRO is NOT intended for duty use.
The video states its drop test is not a scientific test.
At 11:11 minutes the SRO fails the first drop test. The screen shatters!
At 11:40 The video states they destroyed two SRO's in two drop tests.
The video recommends the SRO for competition over the RMR's due to the larger acquisition window. The folks shooting 3-Gun (pistol, rifle, shotgun) and other types fo action/tactical competion abuse their equipment more than most hunters.

Being an "experianced" (rocks don't live that long...) logistitian, I have been known to carry a spare scope and/or RMR in my gun case because accidents do happen.

I have a Type II RMR and SROs. I prefer the larger acquisition screen of the SRO. While not as rugged as the RMR, I recommend it over other brands of reflex sights. Other shooters recommend the RMRs.

On my Blaser S2 double rifle, I run a Aimpoint H1 in a low saddle mount. I have thought of mounting an H1 or newer Aimpoint on my Heym 88B. I am still processing this...

I run the same Aimpoint on competition pistols due to the much better "tracking" of the windage and elevation adjustments on Aimpoints.
I also find the Aimpoint 2 MOA dots appear much smaller than the 1 MOA dots on my Trijicons. This is due to my astigmatism and how my eyes process/filter the dots.

 

[Inline6]

@Mark A Ouellette Larry Vickers did a test on a Daniel Defense rifle. An Aimpoint (think T1) was on top of that rifle. That optic took a lot of abuse. They are very good optics.

You are correct in the fact his test are not scientific. I'm happy people like him invest in these type of test so we do not have too.

 

[LHPF565]

@Inline6 , thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Even though the videos below show an operational rather than a controlled and repeatable (laboratory/developmental) test, the results clearly show the RMR Type II is much more durable (rugged) for shock than the larger screen SRO.

Is an SRO tough enough for a African hunting double rifle? I think so but each person must decide for themselves.

The first video below uses a "new and improved" Trijicon Type II RMR shooting 20,000 rounds.
The shooter is an absolute ape man trying to destroy the RMR. Ape man states that their's is NOT a scientific test in the SRO test video below.
The results provide one data point which is in fact a very good one!
At 5:23 minutes the weapon with RMR is dropped repeated times but...
- The angle of impact varies with each drop.
- What is the weight of the weapon? Does it have a full magazine? Is the weight the same for each drop.
Results include:
- First to last round the RMR retained its zero
- The glass/screen did not crack
- Video mentions extreme heat and cold cycle but provides no test parameters of this.

While not a controlled, repeatable, and quantifiable test;
The results of this operational test clearly show the Type II RMR is a very tough sight!

The Trijicon website states:
"The Trijicon RMR® HD is an innovative red dot pistol optic specifically designed for the evolving needs of Law Enforcement and the Military."
The RMR® HD is a newer and presumably improved model than the Type II RMR.

Next video's subject is the Trijicon SRO. Same ape man trying to destroy an SRO.
Video repeatedly states the SRO is NOT intended for duty use.
The video states its drop test is not a scientific test.
At 11:11 minutes the SRO fails the first drop test. The screen shatters!
At 11:40 The video states they destroyed two SRO's in two drop tests.
The video recommends the SRO for competition over the RMR's due to the larger acquisition window. The folks shooting 3-Gun (pistol, rifle, shotgun) and other types fo action/tactical competion abuse their equipment more than most hunters.

Being an "experianced" (rocks don't live that long...) logistitian, I have been known to carry a spare scope and/or RMR in my gun case because accidents do happen.

I have a Type II RMR and SROs. I prefer the larger acquisition screen of the SRO. While not as rugged as the RMR, I recommend it over other brands of reflex sights. Other shooters recommend the RMRs.

On my Blaser S2 double rifle, I run a Aimpoint H1 in a low saddle mount. I have thought of mounting an H1 or newer Aimpoint on my Heym 88B. I am still processing this...
View attachment 625523

I run the same Aimpoint on competition pistols due to the much better "tracking" of the windage and elevation adjustments on Aimpoints.
I also find the Aimpoint 2 MOA dots appear much smaller than the 1 MOA dots on my Trijicons. This is due to my astigmatism and how my eyes process/filter the dots.

I’ll be running a 88B JJ will put the mount on, I’m a gunsmith but I know when to use a specialists. Still leaning towards the SRO Trijicon. The RMR HD is definitely intriguing with its light sensing adaptability feature. I already use a Burris RMR on my Ruger No1 in 375HH so the smaller lens hasn’t been a problem. Decisions decisions

 

[Rare Breed]

Just for me here is what I found having hunted with both. SRO has wider field of vision given larger glass view. RMR less field of view but more focused aiming at least for me. After using both I stick with the Trijicon RMR 1.0 given clearly my groups were much better. just me