Requesting Some Advice

[RETD16]

So I shot my recently acquired Dakota in .416 Rem Mag for the first time yesterday. I haven’t made a decision regarding to optics yet, so I shot it using iron sights. To get the correct sight picture with the front blade and rear sight, I have really bury my cheek in the comb of the stock. So when it recoils, it gets into my cheek pretty good. I think that I might need to increase the LOP? It has the stock recoil pad from Dakota, which I believe is a 1” pad. I’m looking at the Limbsaver Nitro which is a 1 1/2” pad. Any advice for this DG rifle rookie? Thanks in advance!!!

 

[Tanks]

I'd check the overall fit of the stock in relation to cast, comb height etc.. Usually hitting the cheek is due to comb being too high, increasing the LOP I think would make it worse as it would move the contact point on the comb back on the butt of the stock and make it even higher.

Then, again I am trying to visualize how it would work and I might be wrong.

 

[Alistair]

I found this with my Win 70 Safari Express as well.

I think the stock designers of these bolt action rifles (even in DG calibres) view the irons as 'back ups' at best, aesthetic elements at worse and design the best possible stock to perform with a low power optic instead.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with this view (after all, you probably are going to put a straight tube scope or a red dot on it), but it does mean that the comb tends to be a little high for the irons.

I'd point out that I'm no stock fitter, but again defending this position, I do think there has to be a compromise somewhere, it's just if you're compromising the fit with scope more, or the fit with the irons.

That being the case, I'd say that your options are to either adjust the stock so it's perfect for the iron sights (but possibly at a cost of a less perfect cheek weld with the scope you'll fit), or leave it as it is, have it perfect with the scope and accept that it'll be useable, if a bit suboptimal with the irons.

I ended up leaving mine as is on the assumption that more of my shooting was with the scope and that if I ever needed the irons, I could live with mashing my face down on the comb a bit for a couple shots. I also found I got to used to that stock shape over time and must have shifted my technique to accomodate, as I was perfectly able to practice with the irons after a couple months without bruising my cheekbone anymore.

The other option might be to accept that the stock is as it is, but look instead to change the irons to more closely mirror the head up positioning seen with a scope. Perhaps also think about swapping the irons for a peep site of some kind which sits a little higher?

I guess none of this actually answers your question (go figure!), but it might be useful food for thought. I would say that I'd agree with Tanks that it's unlikely to be as simple as just extending the LOP, although if your cheekpiece slopes down towards the back of the stock so that if your cheek moves back it ends up lower down then it might help I suppose?

 

[RETD16]

I found this with my Win 70 Safari Express as well.

I think the stock designers of these bolt action rifles (even in DG calibres) view the irons as 'back ups' at best, aesthetic elements at worse and design the best possible stock to perform with a low power optic instead.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with this view (after all, you probably are going to put a straight tube scope or a red dot on it), but it does mean that the comb tends to be a little high for the irons.

I'd point out that I'm no stock fitter, but again defending this position, I do think there has to be a compromise somewhere, it's just if you're compromising the fit with scope more, or the fit with the irons.

That being the case, I'd say that your options are to either adjust the stock so it's perfect for the iron sights (but possibly at a cost of a less perfect cheek weld with the scope you'll fit), or leave it as it is, have it perfect with the scope and accept that it'll be useable, if a bit suboptimal with the irons.

I ended up leaving mine as is on the assumption that more of my shooting was with the scope and that if I ever needed the irons, I could live with mashing my face down on the comb a bit for a couple shots. I also found I got to used to that stock shape over time and must have shifted my technique to accomodate, as I was perfectly able to practice with the irons after a couple months without bruising my cheekbone anymore.

The other option might be to accept that the stock is as it is, but look instead to change the irons to more closely mirror the head up positioning seen with a scope. Perhaps also think about swapping the irons for a peep site of some kind which sits a little higher?

I guess none of this actually answers your question (go figure!), but it might be useful food for thought. I would say that I'd agree with Tanks that it's unlikely to be as simple as just extending the LOP, although if your cheekpiece slopes down towards the back of the stock so that if your cheek moves back it ends up lower down then it might help I suppose?

Thank you for the insight!!! I think that I’ll wait to see what it’s like when I actually put a scope on it.

 

[freefall]

I had a .375 with this exact problem. I shaved down the comb, had to strip and refinish the whole stock, and when I got it done I could just never shoot that rifle for sour owl crap again. I KNEW it was going to clout me under the cheek bone and hurt me.

 

[Luvthunt]

You don’t say how you are shooting ,however if you are shooting off the bench that could be your problem. Try the off hand position at a reasonable distance and if you can try offhand with fore end support.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I found this with my Win 70 Safari Express as well.

I think the stock designers of these bolt action rifles (even in DG calibres) view the irons as 'back ups' at best, aesthetic elements at worse and design the best possible stock to perform with a low power optic instead.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with this view (after all, you probably are going to put a straight tube scope or a red dot on it), but it does mean that the comb tends to be a little high for the irons.

I'd point out that I'm no stock fitter, but again defending this position, I do think there has to be a compromise somewhere, it's just if you're compromising the fit with scope more, or the fit with the irons.

That being the case, I'd say that your options are to either adjust the stock so it's perfect for the iron sights (but possibly at a cost of a less perfect cheek weld with the scope you'll fit), or leave it as it is, have it perfect with the scope and accept that it'll be useable, if a bit suboptimal with the irons.

I ended up leaving mine as is on the assumption that more of my shooting was with the scope and that if I ever needed the irons, I could live with mashing my face down on the comb a bit for a couple shots. I also found I got to used to that stock shape over time and must have shifted my technique to accomodate, as I was perfectly able to practice with the irons after a couple months without bruising my cheekbone anymore.

The other option might be to accept that the stock is as it is, but look instead to change the irons to more closely mirror the head up positioning seen with a scope. Perhaps also think about swapping the irons for a peep site of some kind which sits a little higher?

I guess none of this actually answers your question (go figure!), but it might be useful food for thought. I would say that I'd agree with Tanks that it's unlikely to be as simple as just extending the LOP, although if your cheekpiece slopes down towards the back of the stock so that if your cheek moves back it ends up lower down then it might help I suppose?

Great analysis Alistair, I think you are right on. One can very easily raise both the back V and the front sight with simple stick-on's, obviously by the same amount. Then go to the range and try again and if the height is ok, just make it permanent.

 

[RETD16]

You don’t say how you are shooting ,however if you are shooting off the bench that could be your problem. Try the off hand position at a reasonable distance and if you can try offhand with fore end support.

I was shooting off of the bench, and then I shot off of sticks. Shooting off of sticks was a little less invasive.

 

[BeeMaa]

Shouldering the rifle over and over with your eyes closed, then opening them to see how the rifle sights line up with your eyes is a good start. I would also say that as caliber goes up, proper rifle fit and the correct shooting technique become much more critical. I'm not sure of your experience level, and my further comments are not meant to offend. I hope they do not.

The 416RM is not an easy caliber to shoot even though there are many more hard hitting big boys above it. Consider the 416RM the gatekeeper to the 450's, 470's and beyond. At the big bore level (over .40 caliber) a custom fitted stock could be the right solution, but you will need to decide first which will be your primary method of shooting...scope or irons. Set the stock up for the primary and live with the issues of the backup method.

You wonder why people spend so much money on big bore rifles...this is why. It needs to fit YOU properly. There are many members here who have custom fitted big bore rifles that can lead you in the right direction of a reputable custom stock fitter.

 

[RETD16]

Shouldering the rifle over and over with your eyes closed, then opening them to see how the rifle sights line up with your eyes is a good start. I would also say that as caliber goes up, proper rifle fit and the correct shooting technique become much more critical. I'm not sure of your experience level, and my further comments are not meant to offend. I hope they do not.

The 416RM is not an easy caliber to shoot even though there are many more hard hitting big boys above it. Consider the 416RM the gatekeeper to the 450's, 470's and beyond. At the big bore level (over .40 caliber) a custom fitted stock could be the right solution, but you will need to decide first which will be your primary method of shooting...scope or irons. Set the stock up for the primary and live with the issues of the backup method.

You wonder why people spend so much money on big bore rifles...this is why. It needs to fit YOU properly. There are many members here who have custom fitted big bore rifles that can lead you in the right direction of a reputable custom stock fitter.

No offense taken!!! I’m always willing to learn from those who have more experience (and even less experience) than I have. In the world of DG rifles I am definitely a rookie.

This rifle will primarily be used with a scope. The only way that I plan on having to use the irons is in basically an emergency (i.e. the scope is non-functional). I plan on using a QD mount by Warne, and am in the process of deciding on which scope to mount on my .416 RM.

I didn’t find the recoil objectionable, except for it getting into my cheek a little. I shot it pretty well at 50 and 100 yards. With practice, I’ll get better.

 

[BeeMaa]

If you are using the irons for backup and can tolerate 3 shots to your cheek (from sticks or off-hand)...you'll be fine. A quality low power scope with true 1x and an illuminated reticle are your best bet. Leupold (VX-6HD 1-6x24) is an affordable option but Swaro, Leica, S&B and Zeiss will really step up the quality of the glass. You won't be disappointed in any of those brands.

Good luck and shoot straight.

 

[RETD16]

If you are using the irons for backup and can tolerate 3 shots to your cheek (from sticks or off-hand)...you'll be fine. A quality low power scope with true 1x and an illuminated reticle are your best bet. Leupold (VX-6HD 1-6x24) is an affordable option but Swaro, Leica, S&B and Zeiss will really step up the quality of the glass. You won't be disappointed in any of those brands.

Good luck and shoot straight.

Thank you!!! That is exactly what I’m looking at with regard to glass.

 

[Ray B]

If the problem is the comb is too high relative to the sights, rather than lowering the comb you could get a front sight with a taller post and either adjust the rear sight to it's highest position or replace it with one that sits higher. then when you add a scope the comb won't be loo low.

 

[Nhoro]

A rough check for LOP is to mount the rifle and then see how far your right thumb is from your nose. It should be 2 fingers +/- as many others have said, stock fit is important when dealing with recoil, as is the weight and balance of the rifle.

You could put a red dot (RMR would be my personal choice with the triangle dot/aim point). Probably quicker and more acurate than open sights.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Ray B has it right, this rifle like most rifle today are manufactured knowing almost all shooters today are going to use a scope. You cannot have it both ways, but some stocks designs are less forgiving than others. Like Ray said the only answer for the iron sights is to raise both the front and rear sights.

When you install your scope this problem will disappear, but like Nhoro stated a red dot/triangle would be my first choice for dangerous game.